no balls Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 When I fly over Iran I often wonder what the fuck is going on below me. I might just buy loads of tinned food and build a bunker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I might just buy loads of tinned food and build a bunker Out of interest, do you still have the pitchforks stockpiled? - we may need them if we don't start the season well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmed Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Don't worry folks, we in the UK check liquids. All will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You know more than most on the subject, but surely this is a bit different as it wasn't a regional carrier - this had YANKS on it! Also, will the yanks know who did it? I'm guessing they will. You're right, they will. But probably not yet. It is improbable they will make their complete findings public. But even the worst possible case scenario does not entail it being an act of war carried out against America or its interests. It shows every sign of being a case of mistaken identity perpetrated by a moron. The Antonov that was shot down the other day is a much more significant incident even though it only killed about sixteen. I assume there were no Americans on that though Why is it so important that there a handful of Americans on board? 2001's incident killed Russian Jews and Israelis, actually. It was on its way to Tel Aviv. We have seen for more than half a century the kind of action Israel takes against those who would do it harm. But nothing came of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Russian separatists acquired a Soviet BUK missile launcher on the 29th June They tweeted earlier that they had shot down a Ukrainian Military jet, this tweet has since been deleted Ukraine have no need to have a BUK as the separatists don't have any aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big E Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Maggie. If it was a plane carrying people from more of the western nations would it matter more? I can't see the Malaysians being too happy either. One positive the plane will need replacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Russian separatists acquired a Soviet BUK missile launcher on the 29th June They tweeted earlier that they had shot down a Ukrainian Military jet, this tweet has since been deleted Ukraine have no need to have a BUK as the separatists don't have any aircraft Well that's not the reason they don't have this version of the BUK (they do have others) but you are correct that it seems that they don't have it. Whether the separatists have aircraft or not Ukraine does have Russia on its doorstep which has just annexed quite a large amount of Ukrainian land and does not much like Ukraine's general direction anyway. So Ukraine needs robust air defence come what may. This plane was at too high an altitude to be at risk from a man portable missile the type of which any yokel rebel in jeans and flip flops could get hold of in eastern Ukraine. This has to have been caused by a missile fired from a larger platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You're right, they will. But probably not yet. It is improbable they will make their complete findings public. But even the worst possible case scenario does not entail it being an act of war carried out against America or its interests. It shows every sign of being a case of mistaken identity perpetrated by a moron. The Antonov that was shot down the other day is a much more significant incident even though it only killed about sixteen. Why is it so important that there a handful of Americans on board? 2001's incident killed Russian Jews and Israelis, actually. It was on its way to Tel Aviv. We have seen for more than half a century the kind of action Israel takes against those who would do it harm. But nothing came of it. All that is fair enough but each incident is representative of a different political landscape so we can't assume there will be the same (non)result. wasn't it just yesterday that the yanks put more sanctions on Russia?? I heard some daft Yank twat questioning the White House in a press conference if said sanctions would make it harder for the average American to buy AK47's. The fuckwit Anyway I agree this is most likely the action of someone who doesn't / didn't know how to handle the missile and didn't mean to down that particular plane However, who knows how the yanks will react...let's not forget it's campaign season over there so any move or not will be internal-politically motivated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Could it have been someone with a laser pen shining it in the pilots eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Maggie. If it was a plane carrying people from more of the western nations would it matter more? Nope. Well maybe for about three days. And we don't know it wasn't, yet. Anyone on here who has ever flown from one major air hub to another, like Amsterdam to Kuala Lumper today, will know there are probably twenty nationalities on board at least. I can't even get a pint of mixed between Dubai and Heathrow. I think it is bad news for Russia, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Video footage of BUK missile launcher in tracked vehicle from launch area has been found online us radio convo of rebels talking about shooting the plane down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted July 17, 2014 Site Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2014 I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place. Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such? Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Separatists military leader has taken responsibility. Quite brazen. Said people were warned not to fly over their air space. Russians don't seem to give a fuck these days huh. We shouldn't be twitting about on their doorstep. And there's no way they'll have the states telling them what to do. Can only escalate from here really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place. Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such? Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though... Flights were diverting around east Ukraine immediately afterwards. Unsurprisingly I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The EU shouldn't have pressured Russia on Ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 All that is fair enough but each incident is representative of a different political landscape so we can't assume there will be the same (non)result. That's true but even so they are still accidents albeit ones often brought on by political disputes and you're also right that we can't assume anything till there are more facts. The second intifada was raging when the Ukrainians shot down a Russian plane full of Russian Jews and Israelis. Civilians in bars and restaurants in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem were getting suicide bombed practically every week. Israel could easily have assumed it was Hezbollah. Still nothing came of it. Countries like Israel and western democracies behave in a generally rational way and do not rush to war with nuclear armed countries and Obama, on top of it all, is a bit of a girl. wasn't it just yesterday that the yanks put more sanctions on Russia?? Yes but I don't know how that links to today. Even Russia is not stupid enough to respond to meaningless sanctions by blowing airliners out of the sky. Even if they were, why not an American plane? Dozens must fly along the same flight path every day. Anyway I agree this is most likely the action of someone who doesn't / didn't know how to handle the missile and didn't mean to down that particular plane Well the first half probably isn't true as they are not just point and click pieces of equipment, and they definitely did mean to bring that plane down, but they apparently thought it was a different sort of plane, such as the Antonov they brought down the other day. However, who knows how the yanks will react If at all apart from looking concerned. Bad day for aircraft. I was disturbed at 4.20am by a Taleban assault on the airport down the road. Fuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big E Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Nope. Well maybe for about three days. And we don't know it wasn't, yet. Anyone on here who has ever flown from one major air hub to another, like Amsterdam to Kuala Lumper today, will know there are probably twenty nationalities on board at least. I can't even get a pint of mixed between Dubai and Heathrow. I think it is bad news for Russia, though. You are right it will have been rammed with all kinds of folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little whitt Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine? yes they dont shoot planes out the sky YET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little whitt Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 maggie what do you do job wise ex army i know that bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Could it have been someone with a laser pen shining it in the pilots eyes? I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place. Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such? Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though... There are probably more than a hundred flights a day to the UK that fly the entire length of Iraq. If you think on there is hardly a long haul flight available in the world that doesn't fly over the heads of some nutcases with Soviet anti aircraft gear available to them. No-one shoots down civilian aircraft on purpose. Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine? Israel / Palestine isn't worrying. Not really. Unless you belong to Hamas, then you should be extremely worried that what's coming, is coming. Good. Castleford are a good side aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Israel / Palestine isn't worrying. Not really. Unless you belong to Hamas, then you should be extremely worried that what's coming, is coming. Good. Castleford are a good side aren't they? Maggie, not sure if you should answer this but is there any truth in Palestine putting civilians in areas where Hamas are known to be hiding out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffs Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Gareth Hock fired the rocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If I had to equip myself to potentially wage a guerilla campaign against my own government, and my nation was the USA, then it'd be the Ak-47 every time as my rifle of choice. He's far from being a fuckwit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That's true but even so they are still accidents albeit ones often brought on by political disputes and you're also right that we can't assume anything till there are more facts. The second intifada was raging when the Ukrainians shot down a Russian plane full of Russian Jews and Israelis. Civilians in bars and restaurants in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem were getting suicide bombed practically every week. Israel could easily have assumed it was Hezbollah. Still nothing came of it. Countries like Israel and western democracies behave in a generally rational way and do not rush to war with nuclear armed countries and Obama, on top of it all, is a bit of a girl. Yes but I don't know how that links to today. Even Russia is not stupid enough to respond to meaningless sanctions by blowing airliners out of the sky. Even if they were, why not an American plane? Dozens must fly along the same flight path every day. Well the first half probably isn't true as they are not just point and click pieces of equipment, and they definitely did mean to bring that plane down, but they apparently thought it was a different sort of plane, such as the Antonov they brought down the other day. If at all apart from looking concerned. Bad day for aircraft. I was disturbed at 4.20am by a Taleban assault on the airport down the road. Fuckers. Pretty sure I heard on the wireless earlier that the Americans haven't been flying over there for a bit; could be wrong though I wasn't suggesting that the Russians did it in response to the sanctions; that was just an example of how the political land lies; and this most certainly won't help with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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