Another Malaysian Airlines flight!

 

Looks to have been shot down.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysian-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

I might just buy loads of tinned food and build a bunker

Out of interest, do you still have the pitchforks stockpiled? - we may need them if we don't start the season well

Don't worry folks, we in the UK check liquids.

 

All will be fine.

You know more than most on the subject, but surely this is a bit different as it wasn't a regional carrier - this had YANKS on it!

 

Also, will the yanks know who did it? I'm guessing they will.

 

You're right, they will. But probably not yet. It is improbable they will make their complete findings public. But even the worst possible case scenario does not entail it being an act of war carried out against America or its interests. It shows every sign of being a case of mistaken identity perpetrated by a moron. The Antonov that was shot down the other day is a much more significant incident even though it only killed about sixteen.

 

I assume there were no Americans on that though

 

Why is it so important that there a handful of Americans on board? 2001's incident killed Russian Jews and Israelis, actually. It was on its way to Tel Aviv. We have seen for more than half a century the kind of action Israel takes against those who would do it harm. But nothing came of it.

Russian separatists acquired a Soviet BUK missile launcher on the 29th June

They tweeted earlier that they had shot down a Ukrainian Military jet, this tweet has since been deleted

 

Ukraine have no need to have a BUK as the separatists don't have any aircraft

Maggie. If it was a plane carrying people from more of the western nations would it matter more?

 

I can't see the Malaysians being too happy either.

 

One positive the plane will need replacing

Russian separatists acquired a Soviet BUK missile launcher on the 29th June

They tweeted earlier that they had shot down a Ukrainian Military jet, this tweet has since been deleted

 

Ukraine have no need to have a BUK as the separatists don't have any aircraft

 

Well that's not the reason they don't have this version of the BUK (they do have others) but you are correct that it seems that they don't have it. Whether the separatists have aircraft or not Ukraine does have Russia on its doorstep which has just annexed quite a large amount of Ukrainian land and does not much like Ukraine's general direction anyway. So Ukraine needs robust air defence come what may.

 

This plane was at too high an altitude to be at risk from a man portable missile the type of which any yokel rebel in jeans and flip flops could get hold of in eastern Ukraine. This has to have been caused by a missile fired from a larger platform.

You're right, they will. But probably not yet. It is improbable they will make their complete findings public. But even the worst possible case scenario does not entail it being an act of war carried out against America or its interests. It shows every sign of being a case of mistaken identity perpetrated by a moron. The Antonov that was shot down the other day is a much more significant incident even though it only killed about sixteen.

 

 

Why is it so important that there a handful of Americans on board? 2001's incident killed Russian Jews and Israelis, actually. It was on its way to Tel Aviv. We have seen for more than half a century the kind of action Israel takes against those who would do it harm. But nothing came of it.

All that is fair enough but each incident is representative of a different political landscape so we can't assume there will be the same (non)result. wasn't it just yesterday that the yanks put more sanctions on Russia?? I heard some daft Yank twat questioning the White House in a press conference if said sanctions would make it harder for the average American to buy AK47's. The fuckwit

 

Anyway I agree this is most likely the action of someone who doesn't / didn't know how to handle the missile and didn't mean to down that particular plane

 

However, who knows how the yanks will react...let's not forget it's campaign season over there so any move or not will be internal-politically motivated

Could it have been someone with a laser pen shining it in the pilots eyes?

Maggie. If it was a plane carrying people from more of the western nations would it matter more?

 

 

Nope. Well maybe for about three days. And we don't know it wasn't, yet. Anyone on here who has ever flown from one major air hub to another, like Amsterdam to Kuala Lumper today, will know there are probably twenty nationalities on board at least. I can't even get a pint of mixed between Dubai and Heathrow. 

 

I think it is bad news for Russia, though.

Video footage of BUK missile launcher in tracked vehicle from launch area has been found online us radio convo of rebels talking about shooting the plane down

I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place.  Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such?  Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though...

Separatists military leader has taken responsibility. Quite brazen. Said people were warned not to fly over their air space.

 

Russians don't seem to give a fuck these days huh. We shouldn't be twitting about on their doorstep. And there's no way they'll have the states telling them what to do. Can only escalate from here really.

I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place.  Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such?  Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though...

Flights were diverting around east Ukraine immediately afterwards. Unsurprisingly I suppose.

The EU shouldn't have pressured Russia on Ukraine

Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine?

All that is fair enough but each incident is representative of a different political landscape so we can't assume there will be the same (non)result.

 

 

That's true but even so they are still accidents albeit ones often brought on by political disputes and you're also right that we can't assume anything till there are more facts. The second intifada was raging when the Ukrainians shot down a Russian plane full of Russian Jews and Israelis. Civilians in bars and restaurants in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem were getting suicide bombed practically every week. Israel could easily have assumed it was Hezbollah. Still nothing came of it. Countries like Israel and western democracies behave in a generally rational way and do not rush to war with nuclear armed countries and Obama, on top of it all, is a bit of a girl.

 

wasn't it just yesterday that the yanks put more sanctions on Russia??

 

 

Yes but I don't know how that links to today. Even Russia is not stupid enough to respond to meaningless sanctions by blowing airliners out of the sky. Even if they were, why not an American plane? Dozens must fly along the same flight path every day.

 

Anyway I agree this is most likely the action of someone who doesn't / didn't know how to handle the missile and didn't mean to down that particular plane

 

 

Well the first half probably isn't true as they are not just point and click pieces of equipment, and they definitely did mean to bring that plane down, but they apparently thought it was a different sort of plane, such as the Antonov they brought down the other day.

 

However, who knows how the yanks will react

 

 

If at all apart from looking concerned.

 

Bad day for aircraft. I was disturbed at 4.20am by a Taleban assault on the airport down the road. Fuckers.

Nope. Well maybe for about three days. And we don't know it wasn't, yet. Anyone on here who has ever flown from one major air hub to another, like Amsterdam to Kuala Lumper today, will know there are probably twenty nationalities on board at least. I can't even get a pint of mixed between Dubai and Heathrow.

 

I think it is bad news for Russia, though.

You are right it will have been rammed with all kinds of folks.

Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine?

yes they dont shoot planes out the sky YET

maggie what do you do

 

job wise ex army i know that bit

Could it have been someone with a laser pen shining it in the pilots eyes?

 

 

I find it a bit odd that civilian planes would be flying over a war zone in the first place.  Or is it because the conflict in eastern Ukraine isn't considered a 'war' as such?  Bet the carriers wont fly near there now though...

 

There are probably more than a hundred flights a day to the UK that fly the entire length of Iraq. If you think on there is hardly a long haul flight available in the world that doesn't fly over the heads of some nutcases with Soviet anti aircraft gear available to them. No-one shoots down civilian aircraft on purpose.

 

Is this more worrying than Israel/Palestine?

 

 

Israel / Palestine isn't worrying. Not really. Unless you belong to Hamas, then you should be extremely worried that what's coming, is coming. Good.

 

Castleford are a good side aren't they?

 

 

 

Israel / Palestine isn't worrying. Not really. Unless you belong to Hamas, then you should be extremely worried that what's coming, is coming. Good.

 

Castleford are a good side aren't they?

Maggie, not sure if you should answer this but is there any truth in Palestine putting civilians in areas where Hamas are known to be hiding out?

Gareth Hock fired the rocket

If I had to equip myself to potentially wage a guerilla campaign against my own government, and my nation was the USA, then it'd be the Ak-47 every time as my rifle of choice.

 

He's far from being a fuckwit.

That's true but even so they are still accidents albeit ones often brought on by political disputes and you're also right that we can't assume anything till there are more facts. The second intifada was raging when the Ukrainians shot down a Russian plane full of Russian Jews and Israelis. Civilians in bars and restaurants in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem were getting suicide bombed practically every week. Israel could easily have assumed it was Hezbollah. Still nothing came of it. Countries like Israel and western democracies behave in a generally rational way and do not rush to war with nuclear armed countries and Obama, on top of it all, is a bit of a girl.

 

 

Yes but I don't know how that links to today. Even Russia is not stupid enough to respond to meaningless sanctions by blowing airliners out of the sky. Even if they were, why not an American plane? Dozens must fly along the same flight path every day.

 

 

Well the first half probably isn't true as they are not just point and click pieces of equipment, and they definitely did mean to bring that plane down, but they apparently thought it was a different sort of plane, such as the Antonov they brought down the other day.

 

 

If at all apart from looking concerned.

 

Bad day for aircraft. I was disturbed at 4.20am by a Taleban assault on the airport down the road. Fuckers.

Pretty sure I heard on the wireless earlier that the Americans haven't been flying over there for a bit; could be wrong though

 

I wasn't suggesting that the Russians did it in response to the sanctions; that was just an example of how the political land lies; and this most certainly won't help with that

Maggie, not sure if you should answer this but is there any truth in Palestine putting civilians in areas where Hamas are known to be hiding out?

 

It's common knowledge amongst all except The Guardian or Socialist Worker readers. Two minutes on Google will find you clips of Hamas leaders forbidding Palestinians from vacating the areas Israel has warned them are due some attention (which no other military in the history of human conflict has ever bothered to do, by the way). The only thing Hamas prefers to dead Palestinians is dead Israelis but the Israelis are much too professional, efficient and responsible towards its own citizens to allow very many of those.

 

maggie what do you do

 

job wise ex army i know that bit

 

 

Security consultant contractor type person for the Foreign Office. More or less. And a part time gay for pay porn star (giver only).

 

yes they dont shoot planes out the sky YET

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mombasa_attacks

 

Gareth Hock fired the rocket   

 

        

He's been put on report.