As the most used BWFC fan site, we'd like to gauge opinion

Again, in the north west, where all leagues are fully subscribed, you'd be looking at league 11 or 12 level, Manchester League or West Lancs, in with Eagley, Turton, Breightmet, Bolton County etc. There is no direct entry into any league above this currently. I am duty bound to highlight this every time anything other is suggested!

 

So the existence of an ST, if it comes to it, means that we could still survive and join the jumpers for goalposts leagues?  - Brilliant

tbf, it happens regular

 

but the debts still sit with the business

 

just how the trust would look to service said debt, lord only knows

 

Presumably though the administrators are duty bound to sell off assets first to get the best deal possible for the creditors?

This is the bit I either don't understand or just don't get, I can't see that the ST legally has anything at all to do with the club so if we went into administration they would just be A N Other when it came to buying or taking control.

 

If you look at the process then it appears that as a long as a group fulfils the criteria to become a community benefit society then they could call themselves Wanderers Supporters Trust and have the same status as the BWFCST? Neither would have first refusal to buy the ground and neither would have any rights to take over the running of the club, but both could be part of negotiations to do either in the same way as Joe Bloggs MOT Centre could? I might just be being a thick get though.

So the existence of an ST, if it comes to it, means that we could still survive and join the jumpers for goalposts leagues? - Brilliant

There's a pyramid, two leagues of teams trying to get into the Conference, Salford City for example. Two leagues of teams trying to get into them, two leagues trying to get into them, 4 leagues trying to get into each of those! You simply don't slip into the Conf North and displace a club that's earnt the right to be there.

 

Some clubs eg Hereford have slotted into level 10 and worked their way up as they have slots available in those leagues. Not round here, with Liverpool and Manchester having clubs desperate to get into that level aleady.

There's a pyramid, two leagues of teams trying to get into the Conference, Salford City for example. Two leagues of teams trying to get into them, two leagues trying to get into them, 4 leagues trying to get into each of those! You simply don't slip into the Conf North and displace a club that's earnt the right to be there.

 

Some clubs eg Hereford have slotted into level 10 and worked their way up as they have slots available in those leagues. Not round here, with Liverpool and Manchester having clubs desperate to get into that level aleady.

 

How did Rangers avoid this in Scotland? 

How did Rangers avoid this in Scotland?

No idea, and none of this involves our pyramid structure.

 

It appears the SFA put them into the Scottish Football League, then the SFL but them into League Two. Easier when teams from the Highland and Lowland league don't seem to take the promotion they are entitled to(?).

Presumably though the administrators are duty bound to sell off assets first to get the best deal possible for the creditors?

 

 

indeed

 

but the best deal might not be grabbing a penny in the pound now, if there is a reasonable hope they can get nearer fully paid out in the future

 

is ED still top of our priority creditors?

 

i cant remember

Wouldn't BWFC just be deducted points if going into admin and the the trust took over would most likely mean relegation similar to Pompey but not starting out at level 11 surely that would be the better option and why the trust must continue to exist in some format or other.

People keep mentioning admin.

 

Last time out this wasn't an option.

Wouldn't BWFC just be deducted points if going into admin and the the trust took over would most likely mean relegation similar to Pompey but not starting out at level 11 surely that would be the better option and why the trust must continue to exist in some format or other.

 

I suppose, and it is all theory, what position the club was in. Last time out, they said we wouldn't/couldn't go into administration didn't they, and it would have to be liquidation. If you're liquidated, then I guess you don't exist and would be chucked out of the league, so you would have to start again. I don't know if the ST would come into play if it became that serious

I suppose, and it is all theory, what position the club was in. Last time out, they said we wouldn't/couldn't go into administration didn't they, and it would have to be liquidation. If you're liquidated, then I guess you don't exist and would be chucked out of the league, so you would have to start again. I don't know if the ST would come into play if it became that serious

Don't think the ST was in place last time and that may be why without a buyer and with no ST it would have to have been liquidated.

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Mounts Kipper

Don't think the ST was in place last time and that may be why without a buyer and with no ST it would have to have been liquidated.

 

The ST sought Preferred Bidder status as per the prompting of Trevor Birch (in his capacity of agent for Eddie Davies in selling the club) - and as a rival to Holdsworth's bid - see link below.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35437564

 

 

 

 

.

Wouldn't BWFC just be deducted points if going into admin and the the trust took over would most likely mean relegation similar to Pompey but not starting out at level 11 surely that would be the better option and why the trust must continue to exist in some format or other.

 

Only if they could service the clubs debts and still carry on trading as a going concern.

 

If they couldn't and their was no other interest the club would be liquidated and its remaining assets distributed amongst its creditors as per a specific hierarchy.

 

The bottom line is that the creditors need to be paid and the club (whether run by the ST or not) can not legally continue to trade if it is insolvent.

Wouldn't BWFC just be deducted points if going into admin and the the trust took over would most likely mean relegation similar to Pompey but not starting out at level 11 surely that would be the better option and why the trust must continue to exist in some format or other.

Administraion isn't a process about football. It is a legal process for placing a business in the hands of administrators when said business can no longer service its debts. The administrators then have to work to provide the best deal for the creditors. If you go into administration there is no guarantee the business continues to exist at all. Selling off its assets entirely sometimes offers the best deal.

 

Generally as noted above football clubs tend to survive the process in some form as there is often a decent of the club running a profit in the future and being able to pay back its debts. However, often that is after stripping out easily sellable assets. And could for example involve selling the stadium and renting it back, as an example.

 

The trust would have to meet the commercial rate an administrator placed on the business and remaining assets. They aren't just automatically handed the club because they are a trust. Remember it is a legal business process not one designed for football.

However, often that is after stripping out easily sellable assets. And could involve selling the stadium and renting it back, as an example.

 

They can't even do that now that the ST got it listed (along with the car parks!) as an Asset of Community Value.

 

Many thought it was a good idea - and maybe it was - but it struck me at the time as vastly narrowing down the clubs financial 'wriggle room' (Davies had already sold some of the car park to keep the club going) - and if you were facing insolvency and could not use your biggest asset to borrow against then that wasn't a good thing at all because if the club went under because they could not raise funds elsewhere then the stadium would have to be sold in any event and the ST would be required to raise several millions to buy it at market value, otherwise someone else would simply get their hands on it anyway!

 

Of course it does stop something dodgy going on but unless the ST can access millions of pounds relatively easily, then what was the point really?

 

Link here -

 

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/15119372.Supporters_gain_legal_protection_for_the_Macron_Stadium/

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Sluffy

They can't even do that now that the ST got it listed (along with the car parks!) as an Asset of Community Value.

 

Many thought it was a good idea - and maybe it was - but it struck me at the time as vastly narrowing down the clubs financial 'wriggle room' (Davies had already sold some of the car park to keep the club going) - and if you were facing insolvency and could not use your biggest asset to borrow against then that wasn't a good thing at all because if the club went under because they could not raise funds elsewhere then the stadium would have to be sold in any event and the ST would be required to raise several millions to buy it at market value, otherwise someone else would simply get their hands on it anyway!

 

Of course it does stop something dodgy going on but unless the ST can access millions of pounds relatively easily, then what was the point really?

 

Link here -

 

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/15119372.Supporters_gain_legal_protection_for_the_Macron_Stadium/

The ACV status gained by the Trust is the best thing they've done, your negative spin is impressive even for this website. I must say however I'm thinking you might be going on the ignore list with cheese pretty soon.

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Mounts Kipper

Administraion isn't a process about football. It is a legal process for placing a business in the hands of administrators when said business can no longer service its debts. The administrators then have to work to provide the best deal for the creditors. If you go into administration there is no guarantee the business continues to exist at all. Selling off its assets entirely sometimes offers the best deal.

 

Generally as noted above football clubs tend to survive the process in some form as there is often a decent of the club running a profit in the future and being able to pay back its debts. However, often that is after stripping out easily sellable assets. And could for example involve selling the stadium and renting it back, as an example.

 

The trust would have to meet the commercial rate an administrator placed on the business and remaining assets. They aren't just automatically handed the club because they are a trust. Remember it is a legal business process not one designed for football.

 

In administration the Trust have sole rights for 28 days to come up with a deal acceptable to the Administrator, in Pompeys case their Trust came up with an offer after 28 days and had to submit alongside other offers while that was not the best offer on the table the administrator decided to take that offer.

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Mounts Kipper

People keep mentioning admin.

 

Last time out this wasn't an option.

 

A fact people continue to ignore/forget.

A fact people continue to ignore/forget.

It might happen in the future though but let's hope not.

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Mounts Kipper

It might happen in the future though but let's hope not.

 

Aye, but lots of other things could happen too.

In administration the Trust have sole rights for 28 days to come up with a deal acceptable to the Administrator, in Pompeys case their Trust came up with an offer after 28 days and had to submit alongside other offers while that was not the best offer on the table the administrator decided to take that offer.

I didn't think the administrator made that decision

 

Surely, ultimately the creditors decide

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by Casino

As for last time, why wasnt admin an option

 

Was that not something that only Lies claimed

From his kids bedroom, no less

I didn't think the administrator made that decision

 

Surely, ultimately the creditors decide

 

That might be true maybe the administrators just recommend to the creditors who to accept as the new owner. Not sure to be honest.

As for last time, why wasnt admin an option

 

Was that not something that only Lies claimed

The club filed for admin in court but it got declined. HMRC wanted insolvency and the judge agreed.

 

Hillary Stonefrost saved the day iirc

Edited May 17, 20179 yr by gonzo