Spider Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 3 days to assess, amend and firm up a 68 vote bill? Anyone who thinks that is acceptable has got shit for brains. Johnson is starting to act like some sort of sulky, entitled public schoolboy wanker. Oh, hang on... Churchillian my arse hairs Edited October 22, 2019 by Spider Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Spider said: 3 days to assess, amend and firm up a 68 vote bill? Anyone who thinks that is acceptable has got shit for brains. Johnson is starting to act like some sort of sulky, entitled public schoolboy wanker. Oh, hang on... Churchillian my arse hairs It's certainly not ideal. They have been slagging each other off over all this for years, much of it remains as TM deal, so no need to go over all that again. Interestingly, corbyn's emergency question last night asking when the legislation was being published, slowed down the government who were wanting to publish the legislation. The whole of parliament is a shit show at the moment. Ideally the EU could do with offering a short extension before tonight's votes, to polarise things. But they're not going to. So, if the bill gets pulled, then fuck knows where we go. Seemingly more chance of a no deal. Quote
Spider Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: It's certainly not ideal. They have been slagging each other off over all this for years, much of it remains as TM deal, so no need to go over all that again. Interestingly, corbyn's emergency question last night asking when the legislation was being published, slowed down the government who were wanting to publish the legislation. The whole of parliament is a shit show at the moment. Ideally the EU could do with offering a short extension before tonight's votes, to polarise things. But they're not going to. So, if the bill gets pulled, then fuck knows where we go. Seemingly more chance of a no deal. Extension + GE Look on the bright side, Moon Boy says a GE will sot this out once and for all. You know, like the last one did. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spider said: Extension + GE Look on the bright side, Moon Boy says a GE will sot this out once and for all. You know, like the last one did. The last one was before all the discussions started in fairness. Once the old splits appeared in both parties then the shit started. Now Boris has fucked off some of the more europhilic Tory MPs, their replacements, if elected would be far more supportive. Hence a far greater chance of a majority. Quote
Spider Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said: The last one was before all the discussions started in fairness. Once the old splits appeared in both parties then the shit started. Now Boris has fucked off some of the more europhilic Tory MPs, their replacements, if elected would be far more supportive. Hence a far greater chance of a majority. I just think a GE would end in the same shitty stalemate. Hung parliament, utter confusion and blockages everywhere. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spider said: I just think a GE would end in the same shitty stalemate. Hung parliament, utter confusion and blockages everywhere. Possible, but now there is a deal available, I reckon Nigel's lot will become less relevant. The current government will be the only ones campaigning to go with it, which could well make a difference. If this can't be resolved as it is, then a general election has to be tried. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: The Maastricht Treaty took 41 days for parliament to scrutinise The original process of joining the EU took 39 days to scrutinise The Lisbon Treaty took 25 days to scrutinise So why on earth should the biggest treaty to impact the UK economy since the second world war only take 3 days? I’m not fussed if it takes a month, however the majority of the deal is same as the the May deal which I’m sure has already been scrutinised, the concern is delay for delay sake, the remainers have constantly tried to delay and I feel this is more of the same. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, Spider said: 3 days to assess, amend and firm up a 68 vote bill? Anyone who thinks that is acceptable has got shit for brains. Johnson is starting to act like some sort of sulky, entitled public schoolboy wanker. Oh, hang on... Churchillian my arse hairs I think you are wrong on this. you aren’t usually, but our MPs have seen most of this before. any stuff around needing more time is a smokescreen Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 One thing that leaves me scratching my head to a degree is the constant references to the deal as Boris Johnson's. Do the remain wishing MPs really believe it, or does it not quite suit to refer to what it is: a treaty between the UK and the EU? If the EU are happy with it, then perhaps it's not so bad? Blackford is a moaning cunt too. Beginning to think his lot may be better taking their oats and fucking off. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: I think it’s “needs must”, mate They will get deal through in 3 weeks. They know it. We know it. Why not just show good faith secure a few weeks of extension and get it done? No reason at all other than game playing. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: They will get deal through in 3 weeks. They know it. We know it. Why not just show good faith secure a few weeks of extension and get it done? No reason at all other than game playing. Maybe But the forces of conservatism have form! Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, boltondiver said: Maybe But the forces of conservatism have form! You know what - for all the people Boris has onside for "getting this done" - they'd be sympathetic if he asked for a few more weeks to get the legislation passed - and if after doing so it wasn't would be behind him even more. If he plays the game of throwing his toys out of the pram over a few weeks (that many in his own party want) - then I'm not so sure they will look as favourably on him. Especially if in doing so the EU grant three more months. And he can't get a GE as quickly as he likes.... Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: They will get deal through in 3 weeks. They know it. We know it. Why not just show good faith secure a few weeks of extension and get it done? No reason at all other than game playing. I agree. Unfortunately, even with an extension, it's not 100% guaranteed to get through; we'll see what happens later. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said: I agree. Unfortunately, even with an extension, it's not 100% guaranteed to get through; we'll see what happens later. It will get through with potentially a minor amendment re preventing the crashing out at end of 2020. But if Boris wins an election with a big enough majority he could potentially overturn that if he wanted (I'd actually be surprised if he did after winning a GE but regardless). Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: It will get through with potentially a minor amendment re preventing the crashing out at end of 2020. But if Boris wins an election with a big enough majority he could potentially overturn that if he wanted (I'd actually be surprised if he did after winning a GE but regardless). Pundits not sure the programme motion will get through. (I agree a brief delay of a week or two seems to make sense). In which case the bill is pulled and more delays. Why I said before, that had the EU already said an extension of say three weeks would have focussed minds and eased debate time pressures in one. Quote
Cheese Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Anyway How’s Cheese today? Good thanks mate. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Cheese said: Good thanks mate. Cool 😊 Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Pundits not sure the programme motion will get through. (I agree a brief delay of a week or two seems to make sense). In which case the bill is pulled and more delays. Why I said before, that had the EU already said an extension of say three weeks would have focussed minds and eased debate time pressures in one. The programme motion doesn't stop the bill unless the government throw their toys out of the pram. I think 3 weeks to progress and get this done is reasonable. Leave end of November. I don't think it would harm anything. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Here is an excellent piece by Peter Oborne (formerly a Brexiteer and editor of Daily Telegraph - so not some rabid leftist conspiracist) on how the government and vote leave campaign are manipulating the media and public with fake news and lies. Very specific. We all know its going on. But this simply highlights it - irrefutably. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/british-journalists-have-become-part-of-johnsons-fake-news-machine/ Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The programme motion doesn't stop the bill unless the government throw their toys out of the pram. I think 3 weeks to progress and get this done is reasonable. Leave end of November. I don't think it would harm anything. The bill is being pulled if the programme motion is defeated. Rightly or wrongly. PM confirmed it. Maybe a toys out of the pram moment. Perhaps it's all part of the plan to keep pushing back at those who want to stop it, who knows. I agree entirely, end of November is perfectly reasonable. Just could have done with that already agreed by the EU. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: The bill is being pulled if the programme motion is defeated. Rightly or wrongly. PM confirmed it. Maybe a toys out of the pram moment. Perhaps it's all part of the plan to keep pushing back at those who want to stop it, who knows. I agree entirely, end of November is perfectly reasonable. Just could have done with that already agreed by the EU. It’s all part of the silly threats and messaging they engage in. Some saying he will pull it others saying he won’t. Technically they can’t pull it. Put it this way stop the progress and find a way to hold a GE - we are in EU for months more. Or negotiate another month to get the deal through. Public wouldn’t understand the former when latter seems obvious. And Labour offered a compromise this morning of a 7-9 day time period but the government refused to even discuss it. It just highlights how obstructive and dangerous Boris and his far right cronies are. IMHO Edited October 22, 2019 by bwfcfan5 Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: It’s all part of the silly threats and messaging they engage in. Some saying he will pull it others saying he won’t. Technically they can’t pull it. Put it this way stop the progress and find a way to hold a GE - we are in EU for months more. Or negotiate another month to get the deal through. Public wouldn’t understand the former when latter seems obvious. He is pulling it. Don't know if you're watching the debate, but I am. He was asked directly during an intervention and confirmed it. Also said he will go for an election. Clearly would result in a delay, but if that's what it takes. Also got to remember there's a chance of amendments which would change the substance of the deal and in essence wreck it. I get the impression the government see the programme motion as a litmus test for further on in this debate. Still agree that a short extension would suffice, but they will need to be confident that they could get it through and they may see an election as the best way to achieve it. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: It’s all part of the silly threats and messaging they engage in. Some saying he will pull it others saying he won’t. Technically they can’t pull it. Put it this way stop the progress and find a way to hold a GE - we are in EU for months more. Or negotiate another month to get the deal through. Public wouldn’t understand the former when latter seems obvious. And Labour offered a compromise this morning of a 7-9 day time period but the government refused to even discuss it. It just highlights how obstructive and dangerous Boris and his far right cronies are. IMHO Labour does not trust Boris and nor should he trust them, the relationship has totally broke down, I don’t blame him for refusing to agree, this is now all about the next GE and Boris knows he has labour at his mercy. Edited October 22, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: Labour does not trust Boris and nor should he trust labour, the relationship as totally broke down, I don’t blame him for refusing to agree, this is now all about the next GE and Boris knows he has labour at his mercy. I think you're right, hence keeping pushing for the current deadline. All things being equal, I would prefer it to go through now though, perhaps an olive branch of offering to stretch the deadline to parliament would help the programme motion pass, but that might be seen as an opportunity by ne'er-do-wells. Not sure to be honest, guess we'll see. Quote
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