Benny The Ball Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, Howardroark said: He via ICI are a preferred creditor, secured by charge over the assets of BWFC. 1 hour ago, Howardroark said: Re: Fildraw vs Anderson in ‘who filed first’. Anderson needed to file first to avoid any investigation in to his fiduciary duty to do so. Fildraw have almost certainly done so as a backup to ensure administration does actually occur. Watch out for Anderson shortly putting ICI in to voluntary liquidation to avoid paying the £5M back. So Howard you are saying that the administrator when appointed has no obligation to report this given his previous 8 year ban and even if they could report it no one is bothered ? They should be Its immoral that he can again get away with this behaviour even though its clear for all to see what he has done Effectively we have monies that have gone from ED Trust - - > ICI --> KA then from KA --> BWFC In reality someone should investigate this SHAM cut KA out the loop and treat it as though its gone from ED Trust to BWFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Benny The Ball said: So Howard you are saying that the administrator when appointed has no obligation to report this given his previous 8 year ban and even if they could report it no one is bothered ? They should be Its immoral that he can again get away with this behaviour even though its clear for all to see what he has done Effectively we have monies that have gone from ED Trust - - > ICI --> KA then from KA --> BWFC In reality someone should investigate this SHAM cut KA out the loop and treat it as though its gone from ED Trust to BWFC It was questioned back in September. Why did ED lend the money this way? Why didn’t he lend the money to the club to sort out the BlueMarble loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted May 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boby Brno said: It was questioned back in September. Why did ED lend the money this way? Why didn’t he lend the money to the club to sort out the BlueMarble loan? I think it was to do with ensuring that some responsibility remained with Ken. If he didn't pay it back, he could lose his ownership. If he lent it directly, then the club goes tits up, then not necessarily getting it back. Whether that's worked is another matter. Iirc Howard explained it a few hundred pages back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadfrog1 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Boby Brno said: It was questioned back in September. Why did ED lend the money this way? Why didn’t he lend the money to the club to sort out the BlueMarble loan? I don't know, this entire thing seems fishy to me. Edited May 9, 2019 by leadfrog1 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughmungus Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, leadfrog1 said: I don't know, this entire thing seems fishy to me. Does anyone know Eddies state of mind back then ?, I don't wish to sound disrespectful but are we sure he was capable of making rational decisions just before his tragic death ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Boby Brno said: It was questioned back in September. Why did ED lend the money this way? Why didn’t he lend the money to the club to sort out the BlueMarble loan? My point is slightly different - why did ICI not lend to BWFC ? To facilitate Fraud ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, hughmungus said: Does anyone know Eddies state of mind back then ?, I don't wish to sound disrespectful but are we sure he was capable of making rational decisions just before his tragic death ? Probably hadn’t made a rational decision around Bolton Wanderers for quite a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderlust Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: My point is slightly different - why did ICI not lend to BWFC ? To facilitate Fraud ? There was dubious excuse given along the lines of there being a previous winding up order in place which would have meant the money would have been eaten up by other expenses IIRC, however as inter-company lending was the MO Anderson used previously to asset strip businesses it stinketh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Pricey said: Can KA then object to Fildraw's chosen administrator? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Benny The Ball said: So Howard you are saying that the administrator when appointed has no obligation to report this given his previous 8 year ban and even if they could report it no one is bothered ? They should be Its immoral that he can again get away with this behaviour even though its clear for all to see what he has done Effectively we have monies that have gone from ED Trust - - > ICI --> KA then from KA --> BWFC In reality someone should investigate this SHAM cut KA out the loop and treat it as though its gone from ED Trust to BWFC KA called in the administrators at the point the business was (in his opinion) insolvent. If Fildraw put it in to administration then there will be accusations that KA didn’t comply with his director duties and put the business into administration at the point that it became insolvent. The £5M owed to ICI is a legitimate transaction so there’s nothing to report. It would be if KA failed to repay ED Trust that an issue arose but if ICI was to go into liquidation having paid that £5M to other creditors or for ‘expenses’ then there’s very little that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted May 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Yes Who decides? And does that then mean a likely further adjournment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Boby Brno said: It was questioned back in September. Why did ED lend the money this way? Why didn’t he lend the money to the club to sort out the BlueMarble loan? It was because the trust had no collateral to secure it against, by lending it to KA they were able to secure the loan by proxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 54 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: My point is slightly different - why did ICI not lend to BWFC ? To facilitate Fraud ? ICI did loan to BWFC via Burnden Leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Who decides? And does that then mean a likely further adjournment? Whoever has the better legal team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted May 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Howardroark said: Whoever has the better legal team = Biggest wallet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inside Man Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 When in Admin, is Ken first port of call to payed out his 5m Loan as a secured Creditor? Before James and Warburton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Inside Man said: When in Admin, is Ken first port of call to payed out his 5m Loan as a secured Creditor? Before James and Warburton? No, at the same time, upon completion of administration (when a buyer is found). ED Trust were actually clever in financing through KA & ICI as they protected themselves from what they perceived to be a near certain liquidation event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: = Biggest wallet? Yes and no, it’s often the devious, shadowy solicitors that work best in these situations, Saul Berendsen would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Ratwhite Posted May 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Howardroark said: No, at the same time, upon completion of administration (when a buyer is found). ED Trust were actually clever in financing through KA & ICI as they protected themselves from what they perceived to be a near certain liquidation event. Will there be buyers Serious question @Howardroark I've got to that point were it's breaking me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Howardroark said: ICI did loan to BWFC via Burnden Leisure. Sorry I thought Ken did personally ? Can I just backtrack Am I wrong in saying this Effectively we have monies that have gone from ED Trust - - > ICI --> KA then from KA --> BWFC What is the money trail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Howardroark said: KA called in the administrators at the point the business was (in his opinion) insolvent. If Fildraw put it in to administration then there will be accusations that KA didn’t comply with his director duties and put the business into administration at the point that it became insolvent. The £5M owed to ICI is a legitimate transaction so there’s nothing to report. It would be if KA failed to repay ED Trust that an issue arose but if ICI was to go into liquidation having paid that £5M to other creditors or for ‘expenses’ then there’s very little that can be done. I'm a little confused over this bit Howard. The last published accounts of ICI Ltd seem to show a loss and outstanding creditors of £500k as at Sept 2017, since then we know they have taken on a loan from Eddie for £5m. If the company seems not to generate any revenue and the £5m was re-loaned to the club then how could it knowingly incur 'expenses' to others without knowingly being unable to settle the already secured and non secured creditors? Ok I can accept that there were hopes of a sale of the club - but surely even that was on the basis of the secured creditor (Moonshift) being repaid in order to release the lien of the share ownership, to allow a sale to happen? Wouldn't it seem highly 'suspicious' that ICI Ltd incurred presumably millions of pounds of 'expenses' to other creditors, to leave insufficient to pay the secured creditor back? Almost tantamount to preference being shown to certain creditors and not to others in a business that was apparently insolvent at the time? Edited May 9, 2019 by Sluffy grammar errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inside Man Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Howardroark said: No, at the same time, upon completion of administration (when a buyer is found). ED Trust were actually clever in financing through KA & ICI as they protected themselves from what they perceived to be a near certain liquidation event. Ok thanks. Whats Ken's tactics seeing been court numerous times over past few weeks and never requesting a Validation Order to unfreeze the Accounts why all this been going on. Seeing theres funds in the Accounts? I recall over 3 years ago when similar events were going under Eddies reign, The Club requested one and got one to trade. Trying to understand why never requested one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: Sorry I thought Ken did personally ? Can I just backtrack Am I wrong in saying this Effectively we have monies that have gone from ED Trust - - > ICI --> KA then from KA --> BWFC What is the money trail ICI to BWFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Inside Man said: Ok thanks. Whats Ken's tactics seeing been court numerous times over past few weeks and never requesting a Validation Order to unfreeze the Accounts why all this been going on. Seeing theres funds in the Accounts? I recall over 3 years ago when similar events were going under Eddies reign, The Club requested one and got one to trade. Trying to understand why never requested one. To force a situation that reduces staff numbers and allows for admin funding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sluffy said: I'm a little confused over this bit Howard. The last published accounts of ICI Ltd seem to show a loss and outstanding creditors of £500k as at Sept 2017, since then we know they have taken on a loan from Eddie for £5m. If the company seems not to generate any revenue and the £5m was re-loaned to the club then how could it knowingly incur 'expenses' to others without knowingly being unable to settle the already secured and non secured creditors? Ok I can accept that there were hopes of a sale of the club - but surely even that was on the basis of the secured creditor (Moonshift) being repaid in order to release the lien of the share ownership, to allow a sale to happen? Wouldn't it seem highly 'suspicious' that ICI Ltd incurred presumably millions of pounds of 'expenses' to other creditors, to leave insufficient to pay the secured creditor back? Almost tantamount to preference being shown to certain creditors and not to others in a business that was apparently insolvent at the time? It wouldn’t be creditors, it would be the pro-forma payment for services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts