Meanwhile in Israel

[Cheese]

It is possible to think killing innocent civilians is terrible regardless of what nationality/race/religion they are. You don't have to "pick a side".

[Winchester White]

Interesting and shows how fragile this ceasefire will be.

BBC News - How historic Gaza deal was sealed with 10 minutes to spare
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2pp3y68w5o

 

[London Wanderer]

Nearly 2000 hostages in exchange for 33

Who are the terrorists again? 

[royal white]

50 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Nearly 2000 hostages in exchange for 33

Who are the terrorists again? 

Prisoners*  your spell check is playing up 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

15 minutes ago, royal white said:

Prisoners*  your spell check is playing up 

A very important difference. 

Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russia are hostages (or worse). Russian soldiers captured by Ukrainians are prisoners.

Doesn't seem to apply when Israel is the subject.

[royal white]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

A very important difference. 

Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russia are hostages (or worse). Russian soldiers captured by Ukrainians are prisoners.

Doesn't seem to apply when Israel is the subject.

Israel are releasing terrorists and murderers, Palestine are releasing festival goers. 
 

Israel baaaaaad 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, royal white said:

Israel are releasing terrorists and murderers, Palestine are releasing festival goers. 
 

Israel baaaaaad 

Yes. 

More humanitarian aid to be going in soon, which is fair enough. 

Just wondering how much will be dug up and turned into rockets again, or snaffled into other nefarious activities.

Continued shit show no doubt.

[Winchester White]

Well, making a very complex situation so simple may work for some. In the real world there have been some very good work done by people really trying their best to improve things.

Words fail at times.

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, royal white said:

Israel are releasing terrorists and murderers, Palestine are releasing festival goers. 
 

Israel baaaaaad 

 

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yes. 

More humanitarian aid to be going in soon, which is fair enough. 

Just wondering how much will be dug up and turned into rockets again, or snaffled into other nefarious activities.

Continued shit show no doubt.

Not doing yourselves any favours here boys… Perhaps get your head around the Israeli justice system first.

 they’re not all terrorists & murderers. Some are even completely innocent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67600015.amp
 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435

Administrative detention, no expectation on Israel to charge them & no right to a fair trial. There are many thousands more in similar circumstances. Whilst some of course will have committed crimes, many have done nothing wrong.

 It’s illegal practice & they’ve been at it for decades. But we like to pretend they’re the good guys compared to Hamas.

Naivety at its finest

My use of the word hostage was very deliberate 😄 definitely applies in many cases

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

Edited January 18, 2025 by London Wanderer

[royal white]

8 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

 

Not doing yourselves any favours here boys… Perhaps get your head around the Israeli justice system first.

 they’re not all terrorists & murderers. Some are even completely innocent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67600015.amp
 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435

Administrative detention, no expectation on Israel to charge them & no right to a fair trial. There are many thousands more in similar circumstances. Whilst some of course will have committed crimes, many have done nothing wrong.

 It’s illegal practice & they’ve been at it for decades. But we like to pretend they’re the good guys compared to Hamas.

Naivety at its finest

My use of the word hostage was very deliberate 😄 definitely applies in many cases

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

Yes of course you did, you’re not doing yourself any favours here. In fact just showing yourself up…again. 

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Yes of course you did, you’re not doing yourself any favours here. In fact just showing yourself up…again. 

The evidence is all there mate

You’ve just chosen to ignore it

[royal white]

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

The evidence is all there mate

You’ve just chosen to ignore it

The evidence shows that some of those being released are murderers and terrorists. You refer to them as hostages. You’ve chosen to ignore it. 

[London Wanderer]

4 minutes ago, royal white said:

The evidence shows that some of those being released are murderers and terrorists. You refer to them as hostages. You’ve chosen to ignore it. 

Didn’t ignore anything. Check my previous post.

I clearly stated some will have committed crimes.

 None of that denies the fact that Israel hold thousands of innocent people without a charge or any right to a fair trial.

 If someone being held for years without either of the above isn’t a hostage, then I’ve no idea what is. 

[royal white]

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Didn’t ignore anything. Check my previous post.

I clearly stated some will have committed crimes.

 None of that denies the fact that Israel hold thousands of innocent people without a charge or any right to a fair trial.

 If someone being held for years without either of the above isn’t a hostage, then I’ve no idea what is. 

No I’ve gone off your first post, which you said 2000 hostages. 
 

Murderers are not hostages.  The sooner you are able  to accept that the better. Though I doubt you will. 

[royal white]

Some of these poor hostages being released 

 

Among the prisoners set to be released is notorious Fatah terrorist Zakaria Zubeidi, the former Jenin commander of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades. Zubeidi was detained in 2019 for his part in shootings near Beit El in the West Bank. He is thought to have been involved in numerous terror attacks, including a bombing that killed six people at the Beit Shean branch of the Likud party in 2002, at the height of the 2000-2005 Second Intifada.

In September 2021, he and five Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists broke out of the Gilboa Prison in northern Israel. They were re-apprehended days later.

Police take Zakaria Zubeidi to a patrol car after he was captured in northern Israel after escaping from prison with other security prisoners, September 11, 2021. (Israel Police)

Iyad Jradat, one of five PIJ terrorists chargedwith aiding the breakout from Gilboa Prison, is also set to be released under the ceasefire agreement. He is serving a life sentence for sending the perpetrators of the 2003 terror attack in Gadish, where they killed security coordinator Eli Biton.

Ahmed Dahiri, a senior PIJ official convicted of the murder, is also up for release. So, too, is Mahmoud Atallah, who is serving a life sentence for killing a Palestinian woman he suspected of cooperating with Israel. Atallah was indicted in September for raping a female prison guard at Gilboa Prison, where ex-officers are accused of having “pimped” female colleagues to security prisoners.

 

The list of prisoners to be released also includes Mahmud Abu Varda, who is serving 48 life sentences for masterminding multiple terror attacks, including a 1996 bombing on a bus in Jerusalem that killed 45 people.

Three prisoners from the so-called Silwan Squadron are also on the list. The Hamas terror cell, named for its members’ East Jerusalem neighborhood, carried out five bombings across Israel between March and June 2002, killing 35 people and wounding hundreds.

Edited January 18, 2025 by royal white

[London Wanderer]

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

No I’ve gone off your first post, which you said 2000 hostages. 
 

Murderers are not hostages.  The sooner you are able  to accept that the better. Though I doubt you will. 

You do get very fixated on certain posts or sentences, rather than everything that has been posted in context. 

It’s just your way I guess. You like things to be black & white. I wish it was the world was like that tbf😄

Here’s the reality:

- Some of those released will be horrific people who’ve used abhorrent tactics.

- Some will have committed crimes as a form of resistance. Palestinians have a right to self defence as well no? What would you do if somebody bulldozed your home? 

- Some are completely innocent & have been tortured & held without trial in a so called Western democracy.

 It’s Israel who are saying they are all terrorists & murderers. And just like with Hamas, we know to take their statements with a pinch of salt.

 

[London Wanderer]

8 minutes ago, royal white said:

Some of these poor hostages being released 

 

Among the prisoners set to be released is notorious Fatah terrorist Zakaria Zubeidi, the former Jenin commander of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades. Zubeidi was detained in 2019 for his part in shootings near Beit El in the West Bank. He is thought to have been involved in numerous terror attacks, including a bombing that killed six people at the Beit Shean branch of the Likud party in 2002, at the height of the 2000-2005 Second Intifada.

In September 2021, he and five Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists broke out of the Gilboa Prison in northern Israel. They were re-apprehended days later.

Police take Zakaria Zubeidi to a patrol car after he was captured in northern Israel after escaping from prison with other security prisoners, September 11, 2021. (Israel Police)

Iyad Jradat, one of five PIJ terrorists chargedwith aiding the breakout from Gilboa Prison, is also set to be released under the ceasefire agreement. He is serving a life sentence for sending the perpetrators of the 2003 terror attack in Gadish, where they killed security coordinator Eli Biton.

Ahmed Dahiri, a senior PIJ official convicted of the murder, is also up for release. So, too, is Mahmoud Atallah, who is serving a life sentence for killing a Palestinian woman he suspected of cooperating with Israel. Atallah was indicted in September for raping a female prison guard at Gilboa Prison, where ex-officers are accused of having “pimped” female colleagues to security prisoners.

 

 

The list of prisoners to be released also includes Mahmud Abu Varda, who is serving 48 life sentences for masterminding multiple terror attacks, including a 1996 bombing on a bus in Jerusalem that killed 45 people.

Three prisoners from the so-called Silwan Squadron are also on the list. The Hamas terror cell, named for its members’ East Jerusalem neighborhood, carried out five bombings across Israel between March and June 2002, killing 35 people and wounding hundreds.

& many in the IDF have committed equally grim crimes on humanity 

wonder if they will ever spend time in prison?

 night night

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

You do get very fixated on certain posts or sentences, rather than everything that has been posted in context. 

It’s just your way I guess. You like things to be black & white. I wish it was the world was like that tbf😄

Here’s the reality:

- Some of those released will be horrific people who’ve used abhorrent tactics.

- Some will have committed crimes as a form of resistance. Palestinians have a right to self defence as well no? What would you do if somebody bulldozed your home? 

- Some are completely innocent & have been tortured & held without trial in a so called Western democracy.

 It’s Israel who are saying they are all terrorists & murderers. And just like with Hamas, we know to take their statements with a pinch of salt.

 

So why would you say they’re all hostages 😂😂 you really don’t help yourself do you. 
 

Which ones are completely innocent? 

[royal white]

Just now, London Wanderer said:

& many in the IDF have committed equally grim crimes on humanity 

wonder if they will ever spend time in prison?

 night night

Whatabout Whatabout Whatabout 😂😂

[London Wanderer]

4 minutes ago, royal white said:

So why would you say they’re all hostages 😂😂 you really don’t help yourself do you. 
 

Which ones are completely innocent? 

It was blatantly tongue in cheek fella 😁 stop nitpicking everything to a tee.

why did you say they’re all terrorists & murderers? Surely we can agree on a compromise here ? 😄

You want names? 😂 There are countless stories of innocent Palestinians being detained without a charge or fair trial. See the links I posted.

”Israel will also be releasing 1,167 Palestinians detained in the Gaza Strip during the IDF’s ground offensive, who did not participate in the Hamas-led October 7, 2023, invasion and massacre in southern Israel.”

Surely you wouldn’t attempt to argue all 1167 of them are terrorists & murderers?

 

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Whatabout Whatabout Whatabout 😂😂

Talking about the other side in a ceasefire agreement is whataboutery 😂😂

 that’s how deals work 

[royal white]

7 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It was blatantly tongue in cheek fella 😁 stop nitpicking everything to a tee.

why did you say they’re all terrorists & murderers? Surely we can agree on a compromise here ? 😄

You want names? 😂 There are countless stories of innocent Palestinians being detained without a charge or fair trial. See the links I posted.

”Israel will also be releasing 1,167 Palestinians detained in the Gaza Strip during the IDF’s ground offensive, who did not participate in the Hamas-led October 7, 2023, invasion and massacre in southern Israel.”

Surely you wouldn’t attempt to argue all 1167 of them are terrorists & murderers?

 

Talking about the other side in a ceasefire agreement is whataboutery 😂😂

 that’s how deals work 

How do you know they’re innocent if they’ve not yet had a trial 🤦🏻 you really don’t help yourself  and your whataboutery is off the scale tonight. 
 

Ive no idea what the 1167 have been jailed for, I have given you the names of some of the 1167 who have been jailed for mass murder. You referred to them as hostages

 

I thought you was going to bed? Looks like you need too. 

Edited January 18, 2025 by royal white

[royal white]

These lot don’t want peace 

 

 

[London Wanderer]

14 minutes ago, royal white said:

How do you know they’re innocent if they’ve not yet had a trial 🤦🏻 you really don’t help yourself  and your whataboutery is off the scale tonight. 
 

Ive no idea what the 1167 have been jailed for, I have given you the names of some of the 1167 who have been jailed for mass murder. You referred to them as hostages

 

I thought you was going to bed? Looks like you need too. 

You've just repeated yourself again 😂

I might as well do the same. As I've said a few times tonight. Some are terrorists, some are innocent, some are acting in self defence.

That Israel kidnaps and imprisons innocent people isn't a debate, it's fact. We just don't call it kidnapping or hostage taking though. We reserve that for Hamas.

It's hypocrisy at its finest. 

We're talking about a conflict with a two side ceasefire. Discussing the other side isn't whataboutery 😂 Nice try though.

I'd bet my life savings that plenty of those thousands captured in Gaza weren't terrorists or murderers. Just like many of those captured in the West Bank have been proven not to be. 

p.s - I'll go to bed when i want thanks x

Edited January 18, 2025 by London Wanderer

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

You've just repeated yourself again 😂

I might as well do the same. As I've said a few times tonight. Some are terrorists, some are innocent, some are acting in self defence.

That Israel kidnaps and imprisons innocent people isn't a debate, it's fact. We just don't call it kidnapping or hostage taking though. We reserve that for Hamas.

It's hypocrisy at its finest. 

We're talking about a conflict with a two side ceasefire. Discussing the other side isn't whataboutery 😂 Nice try though.

I'd bet my life savings that plenty of those thousands captured in Gaza weren't terrorists or murderers. Just like many of those captured in the West Bank have been proven not to be. 

p.s - I'll go to bed when i want thanks x

“Some are terrorists” No shit but you called them Hostages. They’re not. You said it was tongue in cheek, it wasn’t, you’ve shown  yourself up again. All of the hostages on the other side are innocent, but you don’t seem to be bothered about them, I mean how dare they go to a music festival and enjoy themselves. 

[bolty58]

6 hours ago, royal white said:

Prisoners*  your spell check is playing up 

So there we have it. The exchange rate we were looking for the other day. Just over 60/1. Zico would have a fiver on that.

"Who are the terrorists again?". Proof positive that a meat free diet impairs your brain function.

Is there a 'proscribed' list anywhere? It might help our Caledonian cauliflower to drift back closer to reality.