Is it kicking off big time or is this just everyday stuff they deal with or a bit of both?

 

6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Did I ? what did I say specifically that was a load of shite ? 
 

Of course civilians always die in wars. Nobody has ever denied that. You’ve used the UK & US as reference points before, what’s the issue with me doing the same?

Again then:

can you point to where western democratic nations have displaced an entire population ?

 Or caused an unnecessary famine during a recent conflict?

 Or denied the nation where they are fighting its future sovereignty & right to exist?

(& I’m not denying the US & UK have committed some atrocities fwiw) 

I doubt you’ll try to answer these questions. As doing so means accepting in some way that this isn’t just a typical war against terrorism, where civilians die. It isn’t as simple as Israel vs baddies. There’s different agendas at play.

To brush it all off as , ‘these things happen in wars’ just doesn’t cut & comes across as ignorant 👍 

Had to look at this one. Your lunacy is compelling.

No democratic country has caused a famine in Gaza.

If anyone has, it is Hamas or local warlords stealing the food supplies for themselves and to sell at massively inflated prices. I suppose when it's 'blue on blue' you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your left wing narrative.

1 hour ago, bolty58 said:

Another one!!!!! FFS.

If you go private remember to leave a tip 😆

1 hour ago, London Wanderer said:

Did I ? what did I say specifically that was a load of shite ? 
 

Of course civilians always die in wars. Nobody has ever denied that. You’ve used the UK & US as reference points before, what’s the issue with me doing the same?

Again then:

can you point to where western democratic nations have displaced an entire population ?

 Or caused an unnecessary famine during a recent conflict?

 Or denied the nation where they are fighting its future sovereignty & right to exist?

(& I’m not denying the US & UK have committed some atrocities fwiw) 

I doubt you’ll try to answer these questions. As doing so means accepting in some way that this isn’t just a typical war against terrorism, where civilians die. It isn’t as simple as Israel vs baddies. There’s different agendas at play.

To brush it all off as , ‘these things happen in wars’ just doesn’t cut & comes across as ignorant 👍 

Great. So we can agree that the numbers of innocents being killed, though sad, are normal for the type of war! We got there after nearly 2 years. 
 

Moving on.

The entire Palestine nation hasn’t been displaced so I’m not sure why you want a comparison?

If you think the famine is solely down to Israel then you’re a lost cause. 

As for your last point does it have to be a western nation to suit your narrative or can we use other examples. 

 

1 hour ago, bolty58 said:

Had to look at this one. Your lunacy is compelling.

No democratic country has caused a famine in Gaza.

If anyone has, it is Hamas or local warlords stealing the food supplies for themselves and to sell at massively inflated prices. I suppose when it's 'blue on blue' you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your left wing narrative.

Not sure why you’re bringing left wing politics into this.

The ‘narrative’ that Israel caused this famine isn’t some leftie narrative. It’s widely acknowledged by many.

 That doesn’t mean Hamas & local gangs don’t bear some responsibility. But Israel & their policies caused it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckg4p90z1kxo.amp
 

you’ll not acknowledge it, because it’s the BBC. Who you think is a Hamas propaganda outlet.

 Thats proper lunacy mate, not me accusing Israel of causing it. 

 

21 minutes ago, royal white said:

Great. So we can agree that the numbers of innocents being killed, though sad, are normal for the type of war! We got there after nearly 2 years. 
 

Moving on.

The entire Palestine nation hasn’t been displaced so I’m not sure why you want a comparison?

If you think the famine is solely down to Israel then you’re a lost cause. 

As for your last point does it have to be a western nation to suit your narrative or can we use other examples. 

 

Haha it’s very cute when you create your own little agreement contracts.

I’ve agreed on nothing - the loss of civilian life isn’t acceptable. Regardless of other conflicts. Normal isn’t a word I’d use, but you’d need to look at a whole range of recent conflicts to make a proper comparison. Thats a lot of data to unpick, so be my guest. You can talk about whichever nations you want, nobody is stopping you.

The entire population of Gaza has been constantly displaced & on the move . Israel have openly talked about wanting to occupy the land, deny sovereignty & not allow Palestinians to return to their homes.

Palestinians in the West Bank are regularly being displaced. The land grabs are worse than ever. What’s your defence for it ? 
 

I didn’t say they were the only ones responsible- but their policies & actions caused it.

I chose Western democracies because that’s what Israel define themselves as. We could talk about Russia stealing land, but we know what they are. We don’t support them.

Again, find me another Western democracy who (in a recent conflict) has invaded, settled permanently, stolen land & denied that nation its right to exist . 
 

Civilian deaths is not the only war crimes that exists. To focus only on that would be naive. 

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Haha it’s very cute when you create your own little agreement contracts.

I’ve agreed on nothing - the loss of civilian life isn’t acceptable. Regardless of other conflicts. Normal isn’t a word I’d use, but you’d need to look at a whole range of recent conflicts to make a proper comparison. Thats a lot of data to unpick, so be my guest. You can talk about whichever nations you want, nobody is stopping you.

The entire population of Gaza has been constantly displaced & on the move . Israel have openly talked about wanting to occupy the land, deny sovereignty & not allow Palestinians to return to their homes.

Palestinians in the West Bank are regularly being displaced. The land grabs are worse than ever. What’s your defence for it ? 
 

I didn’t say they were the only ones responsible- but their policies & actions caused it.

I chose Western democracies because that’s what Israel define themselves as. We could talk about Russia stealing land, but we know what they are. We don’t support them.

Again, find me another Western democracy who (in a recent conflict) has invaded, settled permanently, stolen land & denied that nation its right to exist . 
 

Civilian deaths is not the only war crimes that exists. To focus only on that would be naive. 

I’ve looked at a whole range of recent conflicts. During urban warfare, as this is what this is, Civilian usually make up around 75-95% of deaths. I’ll let you do the rest if the maths. 
 

The whole of Gaza hasn’t been displaced nor has the West Bank, no matter how many times you say it it doesn’t mean it’s true. 
 

Civilian deaths don’t constitute a war crime, 

21 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’ve looked at a whole range of recent conflicts. During urban warfare, as this is what this is, Civilian usually make up around 75-95% of deaths. I’ll let you do the rest if the maths. 
 

The whole of Gaza hasn’t been displaced nor has the West Bank, no matter how many times you say it it doesn’t mean it’s true. 
 

Civilian deaths don’t constitute a war crime, 

Tricky one... cannot conduct indiscriminate attacks against civilians but civilian casualties are acceptable according to a rule of proportionality. In this case I would say the recent actions have become disproportionate.

I don't se urban warfare but urban annihilation, the war has been won militarily 

 

 

39 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’ve looked at a whole range of recent conflicts. During urban warfare, as this is what this is, Civilian usually make up around 75-95% of deaths. I’ll let you do the rest if the maths. 
 

The whole of Gaza hasn’t been displaced nor has the West Bank, no matter how many times you say it it doesn’t mean it’s true. 
 

Civilian deaths don’t constitute a war crime, 

Levels of civilian deaths come under ‘prohibited means and methods of warfare’. 

It’s incredible how fixated you become on every word. You surely don’t think I meant every single person ? 😂

Gazan’s have constantly been displaced & on the move. & often with no right to return. Palestinians across the West Bank are evicted daily, have their livelihoods destroyed. All of them are under oppressive travel restrictions across their homeland . If arrested, they have no right to a fair trial & can be detained indefinitely without trial. It’s apartheid in action. 

Palestinians aren’t currently able to exist as a state because of Israel. They have had their sovereignty & freedom denied & continue to have land the taken off them at an alarming rate.

Again - because you keep ignoring this one.

 Can you find me a recent conflict where a Western democracy has denied the long term sovereignty of a nation & built permanent settlements to occupy the land? 
 

The actions of the current Israeli government aren’t a ‘normal’ aspect of war. They are barbaric & amount to ethnic cleansing. It isn’t being done by other western democracies. Which is why I don’t buy your comparison based solely on civilian deaths. 

Edited September 12, 2025Sep 12 by London Wanderer

6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Levels of civilian deaths come under ‘prohibited means and methods of warfare’. 

It’s incredible how fixated you become on every word. You surely don’t think I meant every single person ? 😂

Gazan’s have constantly been displaced & on the move. & often with no right to return. Palestinians across the West Bank are evicted daily, have their livelihoods destroyed. All of them are under oppressive travel restrictions across their homeland . If arrested, they have no right to a fair trial & can be detained indefinitely without trial. It’s apartheid in action. 

Palestinians aren’t currently able to exist as a state because of Israel. They have had their sovereignty & freedom denied & continue to have land the taken off them at an alarming rate.

Again - because you keep ignoring this one.

 Can you find me a recent conflict where a Western democracy has denied the long term sovereignty of a nation & built permanent settlements to occupy the land? 
 

The actions of the current Israeli government aren’t a ‘normal’ aspect of war. They are barbaric & amount to ethnic cleansing. It isn’t being done by other western democracies. Which is why I don’t buy your comparison based solely on civilian deaths. 

I’m comparing civilian deaths, of course  it’s to be based solely on that otherwise it would be a different comparison 🤦🏻 which other western countries are currently engaged in urban warfare? 

 

There you go again, changing your view as soon as you realise you’re wrong, exactly what @wanderer1984said last night. What’s wrong with you? Either type what you mean or don’t bother typing. For your info millions of Iraqis were displaced 👍

You keep asking me the Same question, one I’ve answered months ago, why you keep asking me I don’t know. The answer is the same. No. 

An odd one this.

Hamas building tunnels under infrastructure, siting rocket systems within it.

Stories of them forcing general public to stay put, when they wanted to leave.

Human shields again.

Back to the same question: what better method could have been adopted during the conflict?

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

An odd one this.

Hamas building tunnels under infrastructure, siting rocket systems within it.

Stories of them forcing general public to stay put, when they wanted to leave.

Human shields again.

Back to the same question: what better method could have been adopted during the conflict?

Just need their original covenant to be posted like I did a while ago, to silence these buffoons on here 

1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

Just need their original covenant to be posted like I did a while ago, to silence these buffoons on here 

Thing is, they used these tunnels as part of the attack. 

They built them and their rockets in part through misuse of aid given to them by all manner of countries.

They were and are a legitimate military target.

They are very deep down in some places. 

There is no way of destroying them easily.

So specialist munitions were used.

Alternative would have been boots on the ground.

Military people seem to suggest that that would have yielded more deaths.

48 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Thing is, they used these tunnels as part of the attack. 

They built them and their rockets in part through misuse of aid given to them by all manner of countries.

They were and are a legitimate military target.

They are very deep down in some places. 

There is no way of destroying them easily.

So specialist munitions were used.

Alternative would have been boots on the ground.

Military people seem to suggest that that would have yielded more deaths.

Re aid or should I say sponsorship, many weeped when Qatar got struck the other day. That very same Qatar which is our ally yet sponsors terrorism and hides terrorists just like Iran does.

Karma is a fucker......will save my clips for later of those in power etc, I know the left side like those links

Really interesting last few posts, which pull together the valid points about the challenges of rooting out the evil of Hamas from a military perspective given their infrastructure beneath Gaza.  I’m clearly not qualified to disagree with this.

As a right-leaning person though (which I know doesn’t align with the convenient leftie grouping of those holding different views) I strongly hold the opinion though that there has been a lack of proportionality in the Israeli actions for at least the last 12 months. The collective punishment of civilians through the widespread bombing and weaponisation of food/aid has been criminal and counter productive to the cause of the Israeli government imho.  I’m a case in point, being fully supportive of their actions following 7/10 to now being completely horrified and repulsed by what they have done.

Now, I appreciate alternatives to eliminate Hamas were also not straightforward, but they would have been more successful imho.  Their evil ideology will continue for as long as Palestine does not exist as an independent country.

Edited September 12, 2025Sep 12 by Bertie

12 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Really interesting last few posts, which pull together the valid points about the challenges of rooting out the evil of Hamas from a military perspective given their infrastructure beneath Gaza.  I’m clearly not qualified to disagree with this.

As a right-leaning person though (which I know doesn’t align with the convenient leftie grouping of those holding different views) I strongly hold the opinion that there has been a lack of proportionality in the Israeli actions for at least the last 12 months. The collective punishment of civilians through the widespread bombing and weaponisation of food/aid has been criminal and counter productive to the cause of the Israeli government imho.  I’m a case in point, being fully supportive of their actions following 7/10 to now being completely horrified and repulsed by what they have done.

Now, I appreciate alternatives to eliminate Hamas were also not straightforward, but they would have been more successful imho.  Their evil ideology will continue for as long as Palestine does not exist as an independent country.

Well look at what’s happening in Gaza city, the IDF, via numerous Methods, have told locals to move out. There’s going to be a  massive operation. This has now turned into “they’re being displaced” guess who don’t want them to move out? HAMAS. Guess what’s going to happen if they don’t? Lots of dead civilians. What are the options? 

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Well look at what’s happening in Gaza city, the IDF, via numerous Methods, have told locals to move out. There’s going to be a  massive operation. This has now turned into “they’re being displaced” guess who don’t want them to move out? HAMAS. Guess what’s going to happen if they don’t? Lots of dead civilians. What are the options? 

I don’t know, but displacing 100s of 1000s of civilians who have nowhere to go is wrong. The IDF shouldn’t be trying to be as bad as Hamas.

Things don’t need to be black and white you know.

5 minutes ago, Bertie said:

I don’t know, but displacing 100s of 1000s of civilians who have nowhere to go is wrong. The IDF shouldn’t be trying to be as bad as Hamas.

Things don’t need to be black and white you know.

There’s a war going on. Israel want to get rid of the terrorists HAMAS. They have a plan which I would expect them to execute. They also want civilians to go somewhere safe, this has happened in war zones all over the world for decades. It’s unlikely they will stall their plan because civilians haven't taken their advice (or been prevented from) 

Edited September 12, 2025Sep 12 by royal white

4 hours ago, Dimron said:

If you go private remember to leave a tip 😆

Yes mate. It will be a packet of pork scratchings.

Simple question,  simple yes or no answer please

Given the run up and 'relative calm' to 7th October 2023...would Israel have retaliated like they have but for that momentous day ?

A simple yes or no please, I know it's hard for some who can't accept the facts

1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

Simple question,  simple yes or no answer please

Given the run up and 'relative calm' to 7th October 2023...would Israel have retaliated like they have but for that momentous day ?

A simple yes or no please, I know it's hard for some who can't accept the facts

No.

And another simple yes or no question, basically to stop the bitching on here

One side will struggle without doubt with their answer

Do Hamas want to kill/annihilate all Jews as per their ORIGINAL covenant ? 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

No.

They really struggle when it comes to a straight yes or no don't they 😂 

2 hours ago, miamiwhite said:

Just need their original covenant to be posted like I did a while ago, to silence these buffoons on here 

And, as I said

Please post Likuds covenant at the same time

All cunts

As I said,  a simple yes or no answer please

Seems many are struggling...I wonder why 🤔 

52 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Simple question,  simple yes or no answer please

Given the run up and 'relative calm' to 7th October 2023...would Israel have retaliated like they have but for that momentous day ?

A simple yes or no please, I know it's hard for some who can't accept the facts

Convenient excuse

Almost like Uncle Ben let it happen for his own preservation