1 hour ago, Zico said:

he was in it for himself from the off

paying himself 600k plus from a club losing millions for example

he took the club to the brink of extinction all whilst trying get as much as he could out of it for himself

he knew exactly what he was doing when he got involved

he'd been there and done it before and had an eight year ban as a company director to show for it

he was bent as fuck and gave the club and fans it's darkest days

he got all the shit he deserved yet you go on like he did a solid job keeping us a float and finding us new owners

and suggesting he had no other choice and anyone savvy in business would have done the same

What would you have done then?

A club in debt, the last assets used as a loan (which obviously had to be paid back (we defaulted in the very first payment iirc) Deano pocketing £1m from it for himself, the club losing £1m a month, they only hope is to hang on long enough for a sale, creditors knocking on the door.

What exactly would you do so differently?

Go on then, how else would you survive because I can't think of any other way to do it.

13 hours ago, Sluffy said:

More than you as well then...

This is a really odd response. One owned the club and a financial responsibility to it and the other didn’t in any way whatsoever.

14 hours ago, Sluffy said:

I would also have in mind that the staff and players would all be paid in full eventually as football creditors.

Non playing staff don't count as football creditors.

You're more numb on these matters than I thought or you're so desperate to defend Ken you missed this.

@Sluffy everything I’ve said is in the public domain.

You can keep ‘pulling the wool’ over your own eyes if you so wish, reading your reply has already ruined my morning shit.

5 hours ago, Sluffy said:

As part of the sale process, Mr Anderson provided his release for all Security in return for a payment of £237k in full and final settlement of his debt and any and all claims about the Company.

Debt?

What debt?

This highlights why you don’t understand it. Yes his debt. If the company has a creditor then it is debt to that individual. Basic accounting and if you don’t understand that good luck down the rabbit hole….

6 hours ago, only1swanny said:

The fact that you clearly don't understand what I'm saying speaks volumes..

I actually think you're a bot just acting up to piss people off.

SluttMaster500?

15 hours ago, Sluffy said:

As for his running of the club - he took us from out of Administration to finding the best ownership we could have.

I think it's comments like this that make it difficult for you to convince people you aren't an Anderson apologist

He might've been a part of the deal that brought us out of administration but his ownership of the club ultimately ended with us finding ourselves back in administration and him appointing his own administrators to protect his own financial interest

In no sense did he find Sharon or the FV group of investors - if any credit is due for that it goes to Michael James - and the section of your post above is an extraordinarily generous interpretation of his time here

5 hours ago, Sluffy said:

What would you have done then?

A club in debt, the last assets used as a loan (which obviously had to be paid back (we defaulted in the very first payment iirc) Deano pocketing £1m from it for himself, the club losing £1m a month, they only hope is to hang on long enough for a sale, creditors knocking on the door.

What exactly would you do so differently?

Go on then, how else would you survive because I can't think of any other way to do it.

You're framing it like Ken was a martyr with no choices.

He had choices. He chose to extract personal fees, secure debt in his own name, fail to pay players/staff, fail to pay agreed transfer fees, and take the club into administration anyway leaving us with no players, relegation, minus 12 points and dragged it out longer than it needed to agreeing a deal with FV because he wanted the best deal for himself.

he certainly didn't take a club in crisis and restructure us in to a viable business model to attract new buyers

he didn't save us, FV the Eddie Davies Trust did

it was probably KAs plan all along

it wouldn't have been mine

"I would like to pay particular tribute to the Eddie Davies Trust and their legal team who, throughout this whole process, have been willing to do everything in their power to ensure Eddie's incredible legacy was maintained and not sullied... Even at the 11th hour when other parties were content to renege on their agreements, the Trust realised the very existence of Bolton Wanderers was at stake and were willing to find a compromise to save the club."

"The Trust were forced to constantly compromise their position in the face of circumstances and demands which were wholly unreasonable. This says much about their determination not to allow Eddie's beloved Bolton Wanderers to suffer any longer at the hands of Ken Anderson."

"Sadly, Mr Anderson has used his position as a secured creditor to hamper and frustrate any deal that did not benefit him or suit his purposes. Thankfully, with the assistance of the Trust and others, we were able to overcome this obstacle."

Anderson's approach undoubtedly contributed to ED's sad demise as far as I'm concerned.

Although unlikely, I hope there is a tinge of guilt somewhere deep in his brain. A parasitic emotion that gradually eats its way out, until the bastard ends up at the funny farm, or becomes some sort of monk, and lives out his days on some remote island/mountain eating bread and moss, and being dry bummed by the head monk every morning at 5.00am.

1 hour ago, DLH said:

@Sluffy everything I’ve said is in the public domain.

You can keep ‘pulling the wool’ over your own eyes if you so wish, reading your reply has already ruined my morning shit.

This highlights why you don’t understand it. Yes his debt. If the company has a creditor then it is debt to that individual. Basic accounting and if you don’t understand that good luck down the rabbit hole….

Pull the other one.

18 hours ago, Sluffy said:

A shareholder’s liability is limited to the amount they originally invested into the business.

Set up a private limited company: Types of limited company - GOV.UK

6 hours ago, Sluffy said:

So you are saying Appleby (who is an accountant) who acts as an Officer of the Court in his role as an Administrator, simply ignored £7.5m going missing???

I'm not having that.

You can't seem to accept that the Administrator ruled that the claims of both Eddie and Anderson were overstated by circa £7m each compared what BWFC's books showed - again it would have been easy to obtain the bank statements for the whole of Anderson's administration.

Somethings gone on here.

Why hasn't EDT made a fuss about the full £17m they claim to have put into the club, why haven't they appealed the Administrators decision which they are entitled to do so?

Why did Eddie make charges on ICI Ltd and the club for the the loan of the money to pay off BluMarble - two charges for the one amount of money???

If the Administrator stated Anderson had £1,578,042 secured why then did he settle for just £237k - very un-Ken like, isn't it?

There's been a deal done here.

Whatever it was something unrecorded happened, the Administrator turned a blind eye to £7.5m going 'missing' although we know most of it was used to settle BluMarble, he waved, struck off, disavowed or whatever word you care to choose £7m from both EDT and Anderson and Anderson walked away with his 'debt' being chalked off.

But don't try pulling the wool over my eyes again.

The Administrator took the book figures because he's not an auditor...

Yeah right, whose bothered about a missing £7.5m...

46 minutes ago, Zico said:

You're framing it like Ken was a martyr with no choices.

He had choices. He chose to extract personal fees, secure debt in his own name, fail to pay players/staff, fail to pay agreed transfer fees, and and dragged it out longer than it needed to agreeing a deal with FV because he wanted the best deal for himself.

he certainly didn't take a club in crisis and restructure us in to a viable business model to attract new buyers

"I would like to pay particular tribute to the Eddie Davies Trust and their legal team who, throughout this whole process, have been willing to do everything in their power to ensure Eddie's incredible legacy was maintained and not sullied... Even at the 11th hour when other parties were content to renege on their agreements, the Trust realised the very existence of Bolton Wanderers was at stake and were willing to find a compromise to save the club."

"The Trust were forced to constantly compromise their position in the face of circumstances and demands which were wholly unreasonable. This says much about their determination not to allow Eddie's beloved Bolton Wanderers to suffer any longer at the hands of Ken Anderson."

"Sadly, Mr Anderson has used his position as a secured creditor to hamper and frustrate any deal that did not benefit him or suit his purposes. Thankfully, with the assistance of the Trust and others, we were able to overcome this obstacle."

Chose to extract personal fees - do you work for free?

Secure debt in his name - do you loan £7m without taking any security in case it doesn't get paid back?

Failed to pay the players and staff, failed to pay agreed transfer fees - He's not responsible for any of that, his LIMITED companies were.

Took the club into administration anyway leaving us with no players, relegation, minus 12 points - again the responsibility of his LIMITED company.

He certainly didn't take a club in crisis and restructure us in to a viable business model to attract new buyers - apparently there were several potential buyers around at the time but no sale was ever agreed to.

He didn't save us, FV the Eddie Davies Trust did - agreed

It was probably KAs plan all along, it wouldn't have been mine - you've not shared what your plan would have been, which was the question I asked of you.

And as for the Auditors comments - see my bullets points above to DLH. Something clearly happened that we are not told about as can be seen from the Administrators actions/inactions. Why would Anderson walk away with £237k and 'no debt' when he was entitled to £1.5m (if we are to believe DLH latest post)?

Something obviously happened.

And the Administrator that Anderson appointed made NO references to Anderson's 'behaviour' and you would have thought he would have if all Administrators are independent

18 hours ago, DLH said:

Administrators are strictly independent and working for all creditors, so doesn't matter who engages them. I'm sure that they make a lot more working elsewhere and as the below will show, they didn't side with Fildraw.

14 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Failed to pay the players and staff, failed to pay agreed transfer fees - He's not responsible for any of that, his LIMITED companies were

Being chairman and owner of the limited company, ultimately the buck stops with him

Edited Saturday at 08:453 days by jmjhb

5 hours ago, tomski said:

This is a really odd response. One owned the club and a financial responsibility to it and the other didn’t in any way whatsoever.

A shareholder’s liability is limited to the amount they originally invested into the business.

Set up a private limited company: Types of limited company - GOV.UK

Just now, Sluffy said:

A shareholder’s liability is limited to the amount they originally invested into the business.

Set up a private limited company: Types of limited company - GOV.UK

By the letter of the law. Yes. Morally no. Hence the point everyone thinks he’s a turd.

1 minute ago, jmjhb said:

Being chairman, ultimately the buck stops with him

It's a LIMITED company.

Just now, Sluffy said:

It's a LIMITED company.

Yes that doesn't mean you should not pay your staff in lieu of paying yourself consultancy fees though. Astounding lack of corporate governance.

Edited Saturday at 08:523 days by jmjhb

Has this really been going on all night and right through this morning? Please tell me you're all in a different time zone.

The staff got doubly screwed actually, as they had pay more MADMAX on the backdated wages they got when it was all settled

1 minute ago, tomski said:

By the letter of the law. Yes. Morally no. Hence the point everyone thinks he’s a turd.

Quite.

I fully understand that.

However the law says he has no liability.

And he chose not put his hand in his pocket, which whether you, me or anyone else likes it or not, is his right to do.

And it isn't just at BWFC with Anderson, it applies to every and all LIMITED companies that fall into Administration.

There are some good owners and some bad owners but the law applies to them all equally.

That's the point I keep banging on about and not as many seem to believe that I'm some sort of a Ken devotee.

2 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

The staff got doubly screwed actually, as they had pay more MADMAX on the backdated wages they got when it was all settled

So they got paid in full then

.

Edited Saturday at 09:013 days by Sluffy

5 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

So they got paid in full then

.

About 3 months later, as well they should

@Sluffy Ken wasn’t the share holder - ICI was.

The charge was with Ken Anderson not ICI- his debt, bwfc creditor.

Why he didn’t get it all, because that’s the job of the administrator- get as much as possible back for the creditors while trying to save the business via perspective new owners.

Again public domain, Fildraw accepted the £7.5m waiver, then at the 11th hour Ken accepted the £1.25m waiver on secured creditors.

24 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Chose to extract personal fees - do you work for free?

Secure debt in his name - do you loan £7m without taking any security in case it doesn't get paid back?

Failed to pay the players and staff, failed to pay agreed transfer fees - He's not responsible for any of that, his LIMITED companies were.

Took the club into administration anyway leaving us with no players, relegation, minus 12 points - again the responsibility of his LIMITED company.

He certainly didn't take a club in crisis and restructure us in to a viable business model to attract new buyers - apparently there were several potential buyers around at the time but no sale was ever agreed to.

He didn't save us, FV the Eddie Davies Trust did - agreed

It was probably KAs plan all along, it wouldn't have been mine - you've not shared what your plan would have been, which was the question I asked of you.

And as for the Auditors comments - see my bullets points above to DLH. Something clearly happened that we are not told about as can be seen from the Administrators actions/inactions. Why would Anderson walk away with £237k and 'no debt' when he was entitled to £1.5m (if we are to believe DLH latest post)?

Something obviously happened.

And the Administrator that Anderson appointed made NO references to Anderson's 'behaviour' and you would have thought he would have if all Administrators are independent

do I work for free? no

but Anderson spent much of his tenure telling us he did, even though it was clearly bollocks before finally admitting it

I don't know about the administrator KalA appointed but the joint one made it quite clear on his behaviour so not sure what your point is there

limited company responsibility? he was the limited company in that he was sole decision maker, the limited company didn't make any decisions, he did

as far as I could see, he either took the 240k after EDT paid off the 7.5m, or the club would be liquidated, like bury were at the same time, and I might be wrong but liquidation would see him get fuck all, and he let it all drag on to get as much as he could to sign off the paper work, he was basically playing hard ball with the future of the club at stake

I don't have a plan, I don't need one, because I'm not taking the job on, but I can certainly critique what he did, and also refute your suggestion that he did a solid job in saving us then selling us on

4 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

More than you as well then...

We are supporters. We support the club by turning up, paying our well earned to support them through thick and thin, no more.

28 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

Has this really been going on all night and right through this morning? Please tell me you're all in a different time zone.

I’m mean each to their own and all that, and the irony isn’t lost that when it comes to a topic I’m passionate/mildly knowledgeable about I’ll pontificate as good as anybody, but this thread is one of the worst in the history of WWs, its almost as bad as some of those on behind the stands 🤣

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

but Anderson spent much of his tenure telling us he did, even though it was clearly bollocks before finally admitting it

I expect he just invoiced the club for consultancy fees either in his name or in a company in the same way SB does.

If he wasn't getting paid; well, as Sluffy has repeated, it's not his responsibility

Edited Saturday at 09:273 days by jmjhb

34 minutes ago, desperado said:

We are supporters. We support the club by turning up, paying our well earned to support them through thick and thin, no more.

I and I'm sure many others on here have a brick with our name on it at the ground to thank us for not asking for our ST money back when we weren't allowed in the ground

ive sponsored players too, not that I expect anyone else too or think I've done more, I don't think there's much value in it, just pissing money away because you want to help the club

I've done my bit and so have many others that goes beyond just buying a ticket