14 minutes ago, Arrested development said:

Agreed, and Vic missed his own easier chances at reading aswell. Vic is in there for his pressing . If it ain't broke don't fix it ....but it would be nice if he could work on his hold up play because it's like his shins are made of concrete. 

To be fair 3 of our 5 strikers are the same in that respect, which suggests its easier said than done to learn it, I tend to think its something you have naturally, or not. JDB just has the knack of getting a ball to stick, and getting it under control whilst being challenged. Arguably Jerome does to a degree (not suggesting he should be playing more than he does).

On the whole it is difficult to say Vic doesn’t deserve his place. He’s part of a unit that’s on a fantastic run, he’s playing his part with a number of goals and as a front 2 even though they don’t play or link together it’s a partnership that is delivering what Evatt wants as part of his wider expectations. 
 

I think everyone agrees JDB is the more clinical, the better at holding the ball and linking play but he isn’t as durable and without seeing the stats does less of the “work you don’t see” as Evatt refers too quite a bit and in an ideal world you’d want a mix of the 2. 

I think there’s a horses for courses approach that could be used more than it currently is. But again, because of the run we’ve been on there’s no real need too right at this moment as we’re not trying to find a solution to a problem 

1 hour ago, radcliffe white said:

Wonder if a club will test us January? 

I hope not (not just for my bet).

I think he is developing well and hope he sees a good future here, but if anyone in Championship offers a few million and wages to match it would be inevitable. Same with Santos.
Strange when you look at recruitment under FV that there are some incredible 'improvers' - Santos, Thomason, Dapo, Gethin, Charles, Toal and Sheehan where only Charles was a fee ( I think) but then 3 biggish fees for the level Vic, Dan and CMG have yet to shine.  

CMG has barely played. Scored a screamer in that time. Reckon he'll be reet.

2 hours ago, Ani said:

You mean the penalty was nt a penalty ?

That is what I mean

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

CMG has barely played. Scored a screamer in that time. Reckon he'll be reet.

I did say 'yet to shine' 

12 minutes ago, Ani said:

I did say 'yet to shine' 

I know. But having put him in with the other two, who have had a bit more time, the inference was that he wasn't up to the level required. 

I'm sure he is, and will demonstrate it- as and when he gets in.

Re the theory that IE is managing JDB's fitness, to back that up he's been getting more playing time of late. Assuming 5 minutes 2nd half injury time (significant if you're coming on after 80+!), he played 103 minutes in the first 13 games, averaging 8 per game! We averaged 2 pts per game. In the last 5 he's played 127 minutes, 25 per game, and we've averaged 2.6 pts in those games. I'm not saying the 2 are linked, but it feels like our performances have improved the more JDB has played, I could be wrong.

Vic has started 16 games (injured for Vale away, Stevenage home) and he's been subbed in all 16, averaging 73 minutes per game. I'm not attaching any significance to the stats, just thought they were mildly interesting!

 

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I know. But having put him in with the other two, who have had a bit more time, the inference was that he wasn't up to the level required. 

I'm sure he is, and will demonstrate it- as and when he gets in.

I'm still struggling to see how he'll fit into our team.  He's not a striker and he's not a midfielder.

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

I'm still struggling to see how he'll fit into our team.  He's not a striker and he's not a midfielder.

Of course, though I'm sure Evatt knew that.

Until he plays more regularly, we don't know how he'll fit in. Maybe as a deeper lying striker in a slightly more conservative approach for an away match? We did play a couple of times last season with a 5-4-1 set up and it wormed, particularly at Peterborough.

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I know. But having put him in with the other two, who have had a bit more time, the inference was that he wasn't up to the level required. 

I'm sure he is, and will demonstrate it- as and when he gets in.

Your inference not mine. 

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Your inference not mine. 

Bit pointless mentioning him with the other two then, considering the discussion had been about the supposed lack of performance of them. 

20 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Bit pointless mentioning him with the other two then, considering the discussion had been about the supposed lack of performance of them. 

No because the point was about return on investment when we have paid fees. 
 

Have any one of the 3 ' shone' in your opinion or are they 'yet to shine' ? (For whatever reason) 

 

Also reading back it was about how players have improved under IE so making the point it is not an over night job

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Ani
Added last paragraph

5 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Re the theory that IE is managing JDB's fitness, to back that up he's been getting more playing time of late. Assuming 5 minutes 2nd half injury time (significant if you're coming on after 80+!), he played 103 minutes in the first 13 games, averaging 8 per game! We averaged 2 pts per game. In the last 5 he's played 127 minutes, 25 per game, and we've averaged 2.6 pts in those games. I'm not saying the 2 are linked, but it feels like our performances have improved the more JDB has played, I could be wrong.

Vic has started 16 games (injured for Vale away, Stevenage home) and he's been subbed in all 16, averaging 73 minutes per game. I'm not attaching any significance to the stats, just thought they were mildly interesting!

 

I’m not sure of the point you’re making here but hasn’t maybe you could look up the stats for Dion as well because I feel he doesn’t often get much past 75-80 minutes either. 

2 hours ago, MickyD said:

I’m not sure of the point you’re making here but hasn’t maybe you could look up the stats for Dion as well because I feel he doesn’t often get much past 75-80 minutes either. 

Your probably right on Charles, he rarely finishes games, I just added the Vic stat as a point of interest.  If I was making any (long winded) point its that JDB is now getting more game time, adding weight to the argument that IE is increasing his workload as he gets fitter, he's played more minutes in the last 5 games than he did in the first 13 put together.  Maybe its no coincidence that its been our best spell of the season?  Or maybe it is a coincidence, who knows.  

44 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Your probably right on Charles, he rarely finishes games, I just added the Vic stat as a point of interest.  If I was making any (long winded) point its that JDB is now getting more game time, adding weight to the argument that IE is increasing his workload as he gets fitter, he's played more minutes in the last 5 games than he did in the first 13 put together.  Maybe its no coincidence that its been our best spell of the season?  Or maybe it is a coincidence, who knows.  

No it's no coincidence at all. But JDB is not individually responsible. It's the collective responsibility and contribution of the whole squad of which JDB is now very much part of. 

The comparison between that Carlisle defeat, when we were at the pinnacle of carrying too many injuries and relying on Dempsey leading with a broken back, to now, competition for places, everyone fit and contributing to this great run, is massive.

We are certainly on a crest of the wave at the moment and long may it continue.

 

 

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by desperado