As suggested by @Johnnyrotten splitting this off from the transfer chat as a place for formation nerds like me to discuss tactics.

@wanderer1984 I agree 343 is a really weird formation. Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 teams playing it successfully in the last 20ish years - Brazil 2002 and Chelsea under Conte.

Brazil 2002 had Cafu and Roberto Carlos as the wing backs.... And a front 3 that was ridiculous, so don't really work as a comparison to any other team.

However Chelsea under Conte is interesting. The 3 at the back helped to not expose David Luiz when he'd invariably wander. And the wing backs were completely different, Alonso was previously a full back, and Moses previously a winger. And Chelsea would play Azpilicueta at RCB to cover Moses.

So @Rival Son I'm not sure we need 2 primarily attacking wing backs to make it work. Schon as more attacking and Cogley more defensive could be fine.

The bit we are missing is in midfield though. Both those teams had pure enforcers in the centre. Chelsea had Matic and Kanye, and Brazil had Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (more a hard worker but not a ball player definitely). This is where we seem way off it with Thomason and Sheehan. I like both but they're not enforcers.

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Probably as much about experience, knowledge and maybe leadership as about his playing attributes. 

Bit like Gilks perhaps. 

That and bringing him on to see out games when we're in a winning position.

10 hours ago, Traf said:

Early days, of course, but I'm struggling to see what Arfield is bringing to the table.

Certainly as part of the front 3.

Just don't see it.

9 hours ago, frank_spencer said:

Certainly as part of the front 3.

Just don't see it.

Aye.

That does seem weird.

Don’t think there’s many like me still positive about Arfields contribution, both so far and how this could look moving forward.

I get that he’s not been eye-catching from an “on-the-ball” perspective so far.

But I was impressed with his off the ball work at Orient in particular. Whether there was a 2 or 3 behind Charles he was continually organising and shepherding players to keep a shape in order to press and win the ball back in their half.

His ball retention has been good, he hardly ever gives it away.

I think moving forward bringing him on to protect a lead could be very useful. 

He’s 35 with bags of experience, sometimes IE will need a manager and leader on the pitch. 

I’ve heard he’s a really good influence on the training pitch too, especially with the youngsters.

If your perception was he was going to come here as a regular starter dictating games with him being the key man then I get why you’d be disappointed so far.

But if you see his role as a leader, influencer, providing some needed steel and experience when needed, then so far so good for me.

I reckon it's fairly clear he's here for his experience, influence etc.

Not for playing 90 minutes week in week not as a box to box midfielder.

Well I think we're safe to say the 523 experiment is in the bin.

We're now back to 532 and looked much better with more cover in midfield and space for the wingbacks. But I'd still like us to have a plan B of a different formation or style to switch to in game. There were times when Reading were on top yesterday and getting a lot of joy in behind Schon in particular.

Wondering if an old school 442 would help as a plan b, remove a defender and then have some cover for the full backs.

On 20/08/2024 at 21:13, wanderer1984 said:

That and bringing him on to see out games when we're in a winning position.

An experienced pro would have laid the ball off to a teammate instead of stabbing at it like a man possessed in the melee in the box. 
 

selfishly wanted the goal bonus instead of the team scoring another 

Well, he IS an experienced pro, but you know what I mean. His desire for the goal got the better of his desire for the team, which surprised me. 
 

Thought he looked good against (a poor) Shrewsbury 

Hes probably feeling the pressure too

Brought in as, like you say, the experienced pro to make things better, just as it turns to shit

 

13 hours ago, Casino said:

Hes probably feeling the pressure too

Brought in as, like you say, the experienced pro to make things better, just as it turns to shit

 

Good guy. Legs have gone though.

5 minutes ago, tomski said:

Good guy. Legs have gone though.

Not sure Arfield is an upgrade on Morley if I'm honest (both would have been 5th choice midfielder). And Morley would have been able to take a better set piece when he's on

19 minutes ago, Stig said:

Not sure Arfield is an upgrade on Morley if I'm honest (both would have been 5th choice midfielder). And Morley would have been able to take a better set piece when he's on

Yep totally agree with this. I thought we needed to advance from Morley. 

We certainly haven't with Arfield.

 

23 minutes ago, Stig said:

Not sure Arfield is an upgrade on Morley if I'm honest (both would have been 5th choice midfielder). And Morley would have been able to take a better set piece when he's on

Yes it’s a strange signing. It used to be mocked bringing in a dressing room guy (think Robbie Blake) now it seems the norm under IE Jerome, Arfield. Both seem like great guys but…………..

Why do we give up a squad place and not just get em on the coaching staff.

You could see how gutted Arfield was last night. The guy has earnt his stripes. He knew what needed doing with the clearance and sadly couldn’t execute.

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Yep totally agree with this. I thought we needed to advance from Morley. 

We certainly haven't with Arfield.

 

Think all the summer signings have been poor so far - Tutu looks reasonable but already injured and for the money we paid I really don’t see McAtee doing much (great pass for our goal last night mind but headless chicken most games). We are a lot weaker this season and the performances have been poor.

The next four league games are winnable so we now need to start racking up the points

Edited September 26, 20241 yr by RUREADY2ROLL

I hope it works out for Arfield, I really do, but any comparisons with Jerome do CJ a massive disservice right now. 

1 hour ago, tomski said:

Yes it’s a strange signing. It used to be mocked bringing in a dressing room guy (think Robbie Blake) now it seems the norm under IE Jerome, Arfield. Both seem like great guys but…………..

Why do we give up a squad place and not just get em on the coaching staff.

You could see how gutted Arfield was last night. The guy has earnt his stripes. He knew what needed doing with the clearance and sadly couldn’t execute.

Tbf we do not have a full squad so it is not as though he has taken someone else's place. 
 

He just do not look very good.

On tactics, in the lift at Doncaster station with an Arsenal fan who said 'I did not understand your tactics, made it pretty easy for us' , they expected to come out all guns blazing and put pressure on the keeper from set pieces, we did neither 

9 minutes ago, Ani said:

Tbf we do not have a full squad so it is not as though he has taken someone else's place. 
 

He just do not look very good.

On tactics, in the lift at Doncaster station with an Arsenal fan who said 'I did not understand your tactics, made it pretty easy for us' , they expected to come out all guns blazing and put pressure on the keeper from set pieces, we did neither 

Spot on. They’ll not have an easier game. Plenty of reasons but some could of been worked on.

9 minutes ago, Ani said:

Tbf we do not have a full squad so it is not as though he has taken someone else's place. 
 

He just do not look very good.

On tactics, in the lift at Doncaster station with an Arsenal fan who said 'I did not understand your tactics, made it pretty easy for us' , they expected to come out all guns blazing and put pressure on the keeper from set pieces, we did neither 

That wouldn't be very nice though... So we wouldn't do it

40 minutes ago, Ani said:

Tbf we do not have a full squad so it is not as though he has taken someone else's place. 
 

He just do not look very good.

On tactics, in the lift at Doncaster station with an Arsenal fan who said 'I did not understand your tactics, made it pretty easy for us' , they expected to come out all guns blazing and put pressure on the keeper from set pieces, we did neither 

Obviously an indication of how long it took us to do that, but the corner in stoppage time was a decent one, right on the keeper and we had plenty of bodies around it but tbf he came out and took it really cleanly. Going to be one of those players who I think folk will keep an eye on how he gets on as you’ve got to be pretty special to be playing in goal for a Premier League team at 16, regardless of the competition/opposition. 

41 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Obviously an indication of how long it took us to do that, but the corner in stoppage time was a decent one, right on the keeper and we had plenty of bodies around it but tbf he came out and took it really cleanly. Going to be one of those players who I think folk will keep an eye on how he gets on as you’ve got to be pretty special to be playing in goal for a Premier League team at 16, regardless of the competition/opposition. 

Aye, but doing at 5-1 up in 90th minute is easier than at 0-0 in first half. Put one under the crossbar and let Santos slap round head with his massive cock would be a better tactic than Sheehan chipppng ball onto first man's head 👍😎

2 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I hope it works out for Arfield, I really do, but any comparisons with Jerome do CJ a massive disservice right now. 

They do. 

Arfield looks like a clapped out Sunday League vets player. He struggles to run.

I can see a player in McAtee. It's a bit unfair to judge him on his role in the bizarre 3 up top malarkey that he was flung into. 

For me he loves a battle and is always eager to get the ball away.

He'd be great up to top with Dion in our new back to basics plan.

Trouble is he's got Big Vic to shift first..

Up to them to battle it out innit.

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I can see a player in McAtee. It's a bit unfair to judge him on his role in the bizarre 3 up top malarkey that he was flung into. 

For me he loves a battle and is always eager to get the ball away.

He'd be great up to top with Dion in our new back to basics plan.

Trouble is he's got Big Vic to shift first..

Up to them to battle it out innit.

I really like Mcatee. My kind of player. My concern is where he fits in as you alluded. 

1 minute ago, tomski said:

I really like Mcatee. My kind of player. My concern is where he fits in as you alluded. 

Then we have Collins.

My fear is we've recruited for this silly 3 up top shite and now figured it doesn't work.

Or we expected Vic to leave.

Just now, gonzo said:

Then we have Collins.

My fear is we've recruited for this silly 3 up top shite and now figured it doesn't work.

Or we expected Vic to leave.

Collins is our best player in my opinion. He’s the only one scoring that goal with that finish last night. Where does Lolos come in