Another team that are having a fruit salad season - proper mixed bag of results although their surprise loss to Plymouth on Tuesday brought a 12 game unbeaten run to an end - a run that included a lot of draws so they are mid table.
Another conundrum for SS to solve. I think Duff sets them up to be a “hard to beat” team, usually 4231, rather than an attacking force although they are strong on the right with Jack Grimmer at the back and the dangerous Fred Onyedinma ahead of him.

 

10 minutes ago, Dimron said:

We've lost an away game by one goal... live with it

At a team that are 5th in the home form table.

I think of games in terms of what the ‘par’ result is.

At home, I’d say anything other than Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stockport and maybe Luton - 3 points is par. We ‘should’ win every other game and we ‘should’ get a point against those 4, with a win being a great 3 points.

Away from home it’s a bit different. Those 4 above I’d probably have an expectation (realistically) of a loss and therefore even a point is a good point. Wycombe is in my group of 1 point is par, I’d expect a draw. It’s a tough place to go and they are a decent team. They’re not Mansfield where you turn up thinking you’ve got to get the 3 points, so for me it’s 1 point down on today’s expectations.

Of course you can get into the performance and how we let a lead slip, that’s a different story, but high-level keeping some perspective it’s no disaster.

10 points is par for the next 4 games. Let’s see if we get them - in which case we’ll be on 44 off 24 games.

Edited December 20, 2025Dec 20 by Eddie

1 minute ago, worthy10 said:

I'm not for one minute suggesting we sack the manager. I remember what a painful process we had to endure before sacking EE. But I'm reluctant to say that I've been underwhelmed with SS. I expected better from him

I still like our playing style under SS but in my opinion, he now needs to firmly establish his winning team and cut back on this rotating squad nonsense 

2 hours ago, Whitestar said:

Maybe his attitude was wrong but in my opinion (and what do i know?) he was the player we had that actually looked like a footballer and certainly had talent, a decent manager could have really brought the best out of him i reckon, but we'll never know.

As you say how could we know how any player's attitude compares to others, other than maybe the stand out positive one's like Tomo/Jones/Kachunga compared to the last 6 months of Santos, but those in the middle - who knows what they are like either in training or in the dressing room etc?

I just know we miss the goals and creativity of Collins and McAtee, the hope and aspiration was that we were upgrading with the current 3 but its Christmas now and there's absolutely no evidence of that, purely from a goals potential point of view.  I know Collins had some bad, frustrating games BTW and he's as weak as they come, but he also had some stand out performances when he didn't even score, something I've not seen from any other striker this season. 

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

 

10 points is par for the next 4 games. Let’s see if we get them - in which case we’ll be on 44 off 24 games.

We are still up there regarding goal difference so we're still looking bettter than previous sesons... I agree the critical time is now here

3 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

As you say how could we know how any player's attitude compares to others, other than maybe the stand out positive one's like Tomo/Jones/Kachunga compared to the last 6 months of Santos, but those in the middle - who knows what they are like either in training or in the dressing room etc?

I just know we miss the goals and creativity of Collins and McAtee, the hope and aspiration was that we were upgrading with the current 3 but its Christmas now and there's absolutely no evidence of that, purely from a goals potential point of view.  I know Collins had some bad, frustrating games BTW and he's as weak as they come, but he also had some stand out performances when he didn't even score, something I've not seen from any other striker this season. 

Gale and ACD are upgrades on Collins.

 

Today was a draw at best game for me, though it always takes on a different feel when we start well, take the lead and let it slip.

Read everyone's thoughts, its a tricky one at minute, I can't quite weigh up where we're at. There are some concerns, we're huffing and puffing a bit, have a few who've lost their way a bit early in a long season and a squad that's still a work in progress and still more than a bit imbalanced. 

But, we're still in the mix though and if we win the next couple we'll end the year still in it. Given the legacy issues with the squad and the extent of restructuring needed I'd have taken that back in August.

Not sure how much room for further tweaking SS will have in Jan, or be able to create, if he can get the ins and outs right (a few of Summer's incomings are jury out for me), we could still push on into the Spring at least as strong play off placers if not better.  

Would love to see us play 433 or a real 4231 without this inverted wingers nonsense. Anyone being critical of Dalby, Burstow or Dempsey needs to open their eyes.

Have come to expect nothing else to be honest. Look at how hard it is for us when teams go ahead at our place. 
 

We gifted it to them in an 8 minute spell. 
 

It’s literally all they needed. 8 minutes to turn it on, and it was enough to beat us. 
 

Its pathetic. And I don’t really see it getting much better on the road. 

2 hours ago, waffer cup 07 said:

7 points from next 3 games is a must, if were going to challenge.

Anything less than 12 points from the next 4 will be a boost for anyone else in the top 6.  There isn't a game there we'd see Cardiff or Bradford dropping points in, and we are the one's behind the curve.

39 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

We're better this season than last.

We're not as good as we were two seasons ago. 

Schumacher has had 1 transfer window.  He's not daft. He'll see the shortcomings and im confident he'll get it right.  

He as improved the squad but that is also down to Fergal he has said himself unless they all agree on a player they don’t sign . The short comings are down to performces away from home that’s down to him 

Just now, Farnywhite said:

He as improved the squad but that is also down to Fergal he has said himself unless they all agree on a player they don’t sign . The short comings are down to performces away from home that’s down to him 

Just for balance, is the insane home record also down to him?

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Just for balance, is the insane home record also down to him?

Yes of course it is he has got that spot on but we are expected to win at home

he needs to sort the away form out it’s really poor in anyone’s book and a good manager would be highlighting what’s wrong and change it  

Edited December 20, 2025Dec 20 by Farnywhite

In all four away games we have been beaten we could and perhaps should have been one two goals up in the first 20 mins

Teams are not used to facing a high press when they are at home. We have been very wasteful and missed numerous chances in each of the four games......Teams  then grow into the game and we are easily worked out. The change is normally when their keeper goes down.

We at times are playing with a back two because our full backs are stuck up field. Why we dont play with a flat back four who stay at the back and a midfield three that also protect the back four is beyond me.....Let us invite teams to break us down then hit them on the break time and time again without losing shape.

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We did a good job killing it off in that 3 minutes just before HT. 

Mmm. Good point. I rather meant killing it off in our favour. As you know.

3 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

In all four away games we have been beaten we could and perhaps should have been one two goals up in the first 20 mins

Teams are not used to facing a high press when they are at home. We have been very wasteful and missed numerous chances in each of the four games......Teams  then grow into the game and we are easily worked out. The change is normally when their keeper goes down.

We at times are playing with a back two because our full backs are stuck up field. Why we dont play with a flat back four who stay at the back and a midfield three that also protect the back four is beyond me.....Let us invite teams to break us down then hit them on the break time and time again without losing shape.

Inverted wingers kill all that.

34 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Gale and ACD are upgrades on Collins.

 

They are, but all too often we’re chasing the game until one of them gets a bit of service to pull us out of the shit. 
Let’s not get into the shit in the first place.

8 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

We at times are playing with a back two because our full backs are stuck up field. Why we dont play with a flat back four who stay at the back and a midfield three that also protect the back four is beyond me.....Let us invite teams to break us down then hit them on the break time and time again without losing shape.

I mentioned that at half time about over lapping full backs when playing wingers leave you exposed. May be it’s because we are still have tutu , cogley from the evatt formation and Conway and only been able to bring Christie in who is more suited to a back 4 

12 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Inverted wingers kill all that.

 

Should play one winger away from home with a licence to play wherever he wants

ACD has been worked out they just play a right full back on him.

Edited December 20, 2025Dec 20 by masi 51

2 hours ago, Rival Son said:

15 shots to 9 for Bolton. Of those 15 attempts, 1 was on target.

Yet again, our players can’t hit a barn door at 6 paces.

Despite two unfortunate slips in as many minutes, our defence remains the 2nd best in the league.

Despite dominating this and virtually all matches, in terms of chances and territory, our attack remains outside the top 6 in the league.

If we’re to go up, the single thing that’s needs to improve is being more clinical and taking chances.

The issue is away from home, nobody's concerned about home form.  And away from home we've conceded more than 11 teams including bottom half teams like Northampton, Rotherham, Burton, Exeter, Blackpool and Port Vale.  We put 4 past Vale and they've still conceded less than us away.  Would we swap the Exeter and Vale defences for our's?  Its obviously not that simple and not just down to how good individuals are. 

1 hour ago, Dimron said:

We've lost an away game by one goal... live with it

 

58 minutes ago, L/H White said:

Another away game. 

Don't try and dress it up ffs

And the truth as always when folk take the positive and negative extreme is somewhere in the middle.

We’re not out of promotion contention after today’s result.

Schumacher isn’t an incompetent pretender.

But we can’t dismiss the fact that it’s another away game where frustrations and underachievement are there again,  and that can’t keep happening if we have intentions of automatic promotion. 

 

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

 Sadly I have no confidence in this team, home or away as I think even our home record flatters us and the way we’ve played. Slip up over the Christmas break, which we very easily could and the picture changes dramatically and Schu might really have concern for the boos.

I'm struggling with that.  Cardiff the only extra points which nobody saw coming with a minute to go.

Deserved to beat Reading by a mile, the other draws arguably fair results.  I can't think of an undeserved win, our home form has been outstanding compared to any year I can remember at this stadium, for the level we're playing at.

6 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'm struggling with that.  Cardiff the only extra points which nobody saw coming with a minute to go.

Deserved to beat Reading by a mile, the other draws arguably fair results.  I can't think of an undeserved win, our home form has been outstanding compared to any year I can remember at this stadium, for the level we're playing at.

Towards the end of Evatt's tenure we were bad away AND ropey at home.

Now we're just bad away 😁

You look at the squad and who's out of contract and it comes to its natural conclusion in the summer. Just have to hope the replacements are Championship quality.

2 hours ago, Lostock Whites said:

Again another unremarkable opposition team in bad form who turns us over when we come to their place, just like Burton & Northampton too.

It's a first league defeat in a while, but our away record speaks for itself, it's shocking, not even mid table never mind automatic promotion.

I don't really know what it is,I don't think it's one player or tactic, we played mostly okay and they virtually scored twice out of nothing, but it keeps happening.

In the most simplest of ways, we just got to manage games better. Giving away stupid goals and at stupid times too. 2 goals right before half time away from home is criminal. 

At home we look like we can beat anybody, away from home we look the complete opposite. Let's not forget the 4-0 shocker at Swindon too.

 My biggest worry is that we are so over reliant upon our home form. We aren't going to win every home game. And when we do start dropping points at home here and there with this stinking away form, it's not going to be good.

If Schuey dismisses our away form then for the first time I will be questioning him, because it's as plain as day. 

I agree with your point re the concerns.

Just a correction on Wycombe being out of form, they aren't really, they are one of the better teams in this league under Duff.  19 points from the last 10, 3rd in the league (2 points behind Cardiff, 1 behind us).  Our two away wins have been against teams bang out of form - Huddersfield and Mansfield.  Today we reverted to type against a team not in the middle of a losing streak.

Just got back. Said it the other week and I’ll say it again. It would be nice to see any hint of a plan B from Schumacher instead of the like for like changes. And for god’s sake will someone realise that if they’ve doubled up on Duberry then that means there’s space elsewhere!

Good day out otherwise and a special hat tip to @medwaywhite for the lift back from Warrington!

2 hours ago, Eavesy said:

January could make or break the club.

Generally speaking schumachers signings have been far superior than Evatts. 

Hard to argue against Evatt's strikers being better than SS's.  Going back to Doyle.  Then the Charles, JDB, Baka season, then Collins, McAtee (overpriced).  A strength for years has become a weakness under SS.