Wycombe Wanderers (A)

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, Eavesy said:

January could make or break the club.

Generally speaking schumachers signings have been far superior than Evatts. 

Hard to argue against Evatt's strikers being better than SS's.  Going back to Doyle.  Then the Charles, JDB, Baka season, then Collins, McAtee (overpriced).  A strength for years has become a weakness under SS. 

[worthy10]

9 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Just got back. Said it the other week and I’ll say it again. It would be nice to see any hint of a plan B from Schumacher instead of the like for like changes. And for god’s sake will someone realise that if they’ve doubled up on Duberry then that means there’s space elsewhere!

Good day out otherwise and a special hat tip to @medwaywhite for the lift back from Warrington!

This is sort of where I'm at. A bit inderwhelmed with SS

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

10 points is par for the next 4 games. Let’s see if we get them - in which case we’ll be on 44 off 24 games.

If any of the next 4 games are "1 point par", which I would disagree with, the 3 that follow must all be 1 pointers as well.  That would be 13 from 7, so 13 from 8 including today, an average of 1.625 per game.

So we need to find some 3 pointers from the away games because we keep falling further behind par.

In the short term, anything less than 12 points next 4 games is a bonus for everyone else.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Gale and ACD are upgrades on Collins.

 

They aren't strikers, they are an upgrade on the wingbacks that previously played there.  They are fantastic signings.

[CambridgeBWFC]

22 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Just got back. Said it the other week and I’ll say it again. It would be nice to see any hint of a plan B from Schumacher instead of the like for like changes. And for god’s sake will someone realise that if they’ve doubled up on Duberry then that means there’s space elsewhere!

Good day out otherwise and a special hat tip to @medwaywhite for the lift back from Warrington!

Completely agree and where my frustration lies, we looked fantastic for 20 odd minutes, we let them back in but they make changes to nullify us and we continue to do the same thing. One up away we could drop deeper and try and hit on the counter, or set up more defensive from the start. Playing Dalby and not getting ball into the box is another example, it is why people are losing faith. At home we are better but our away form is awful and it doesnt really look like changing as he is wedded to a system 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Zog1 said:

Would love to see us play 433 or a real 4231 without this inverted wingers nonsense. Anyone being critical of Dalby, Burstow or Dempsey needs to open their eyes.

Who's criticising Dempsey?

Burstow and Dalby aren't playing well currently and/or we aren't using them properly.  We can all tell that with our eyes shut surely?

[Tombwfc]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

At a team that are 5th in the home form table.

I think of games in terms of what the ‘par’ result is.

At home, I’d say anything other than Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stockport and maybe Luton - 3 points is par. We ‘should’ win every other game and we ‘should’ get a point against those 4, with a win being a great 3 points.

Away from home it’s a bit different. Those 4 above I’d probably have an expectation (realistically) of a loss and therefore even a point is a good point. Wycombe is in my group of 1 point is par, I’d expect a draw. It’s a tough place to go and they are a decent team. They’re not Mansfield where you turn up thinking you’ve got to get the 3 points, so for me it’s 1 point down on today’s expectations.

Of course you can get into the performance and how we let a lead slip, that’s a different story, but high-level keeping some perspective it’s no disaster.

10 points is par for the next 4 games. Let’s see if we get them - in which case we’ll be on 44 off 24 games.

 

This is all kind of nonsense though isn't it? At least when looking at how we're going to get promoted over the course of a whole season. By this logic we've 'gained' six points by beating Huddersfield and Cardiff and drawing at Luton (why the 7th and 8th placed teams are in this bracket is another question). But we're already 13 points down because we lost to Northampton, Burton & Wycombe away and didn't beat Reading, Lincoln or Bradford at home. 

Presumably now we need to be expecting to win them back at some point, so I'd say that turns losing from 1-0 up against 14th placed Wycombe into a shit result.

Call me crazy, but I reckon the league table nearly half way through the season is the best measurement as to where we are. And that is, while not out of it by any stretch, very clearly below where we need to be.

[Tombwfc]

On the day we played Huddersfield we were six points behind Cardiff and four behind Lincoln. We went 8 unbeaten and today we're seven points behind Cardiff and four off Lincoln (albeit there were/are games in hand involved).

We've gone at 2pts per game over the last 10, our 'good run'. If we maintain that for the rest of the season that'll be 86 points which generally hasn't been good enough for automatic promotion.

The point being, the standard for going up when you've had a shit start needs to be really, really high. I don't think we're in a bad spot, decently positioned and hopefully we'll strengthen further in January. But equally there's a sort of airy complacency around that we can afford to just keep writing off games like this.

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

This is all kind of nonsense though isn't it? At least when looking at how we're going to get promoted over the course of a whole season. By this logic we've 'gained' six points by beating Huddersfield and Cardiff and drawing at Luton (why the 7th and 8th placed teams are in this bracket is another question). But we're already 13 points down because we lost to Northampton, Burton & Wycombe away and didn't beat Reading, Lincoln or Bradford at home. 

Presumably now we need to be expecting to win them back at some point, so I'd say that turns losing from 1-0 up against 14th placed Wycombe into a shit result.

Call me crazy, but I reckon the league table nearly half way through the season is the best measurement as to where we are. And that is, while not out of it by any stretch, very clearly below where we need to be.

4 points off with a game in hand.

10 of the most inviting fixtures ahead of you.

Clearly

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

This is all kind of nonsense though isn't it? At least when looking at how we're going to get promoted over the course of a whole season. By this logic we've 'gained' six points by beating Huddersfield and Cardiff and drawing at Luton (why the 7th and 8th placed teams are in this bracket is another question). But we're already 13 points down because we lost to Northampton, Burton & Wycombe away and didn't beat Reading, Lincoln or Bradford at home. 

Presumably now we need to be expecting to win them back at some point, so I'd say that turns losing from 1-0 up against 14th placed Wycombe into a shit result.

Call me crazy, but I reckon the league table nearly half way through the season is the best measurement as to where we are. And that is, while not out of it by any stretch, very clearly below where we need to be.

I’ve never actually figured out whether it even makes sense in terms of those individually expected results adding up to enough to get promotion.

Fun Saturday night

Home: win 19 and draw 4 - 61 points

Away: win 9, draw 10, lose 4 - 37 points

98 points total

Based on our current results we’re 6 points down on where I’d ‘expect’ individual results to put us (basically the Burton and Northampton away results). You can guess at what is needed for automatic but given how evenly spread the league is this year I reckon 86 might get it, but let’s say 88.

So on my weird tracker basis, we’ve got 4 more points to lose in terms of under performance against expectation. The next 4 are all in the expected wins category, so @Johnnyrotten is right, 12 points is par or we’re falling further back (although anything more than 3 points from the following 3 away games is upside).

Think I’ve bored myself but you’re right, 3 points today would have been a nice way to claw a couple of those dropped points back.

[desperado]

12 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

airy complacency around that we can afford to just keep writing off games like this

I don’t think there is.

We won’t get to find out what SS’s true thoughts and feedback to the squad will be. But my guess would be airy complacency will be the last thing on the menu.

If you mean fans on here - there’s very few accepting that we can keep doing this and expect to go up.

All I can see that from most of the folk who aren’t writing off our promotion credentials yet are some facts about us still very much being in contention because of what’s happening in and around us in this inconsistent league.

We need to get better consistency away from home to have any chance of getting in the top two. Anyone who disagrees with that is very blinkered.

It’s subjective as to whether people think we will from here on in. 

[Whitesince63]

23 minutes ago, desperado said:

I don’t think there is.

We won’t get to find out what SS’s true thoughts and feedback to the squad will be. But my guess would be airy complacency will be the last thing on the menu.

If you mean fans on here - there’s very few accepting that we can keep doing this and expect to go up.

All I can see that from most of the folk who aren’t writing off our promotion credentials yet are some facts about us still very much being in contention because of what’s happening in and around us in this inconsistent league.

We need to get better consistency away from home to have any chance of getting in the top two. Anyone who disagrees with that is very blinkered.

It’s subjective as to whether people think we will from here on in. 

Yes but on the other hand despite our previous excellent home form we can’t assume that’s going to continue. There are no gimme games this season including the next two and we’re just so inconsistent and if SS keeps chopping and changing the team I fear we could easily slip up. As you say we just have to get better away because if we don’t our home form will be wasted. I think SS needs to rethink his system away because for whatever reason it’s just plainly not working.

[jmjhb]

3 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

There are no gimme games this season including the next two and we’re just so inconsistent

We're not inconsistent at home.

[gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Yes but on the other hand despite our previous excellent home form we can’t assume that’s going to continue. There are no gimme games this season including the next two and we’re just so inconsistent and if SS keeps chopping and changing the team I fear we could easily slip up. As you say we just have to get better away because if we don’t our home form will be wasted. I think SS needs to rethink his system away because for whatever reason it’s just plainly not working.

Chopping and changing?

We can't just play the same team every game.

[Rizlar]

SS needs to change his system away from home it’s plain for all to see it’s not working . 

[FrancisFogarty]

33 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Chopping and changing?

We can't just play the same team every game.

What, Port Vale ?

[Wanderlust]

There’s a lot of frustration on here tonight. And venting about the manager and players.
I’m ok with where we are - in the middle of a competitive race with all to play for.

It’s a bit premature to be calling for anyone’s head but I’ll be all over it come February - depends what we do in the window. 

[Krimzon]

Very drunk but after spitting me dummy out after the game and on reflection We were by far the better team but switched off for 10 mins which cost us the game . 

We miss a sitter in the first minute . Up there with Lutons chance against us as miss of the season so far , Score a great goal , go AWOL  and concede twice . 

A shot hits the post , then the back of the keeper . How often does that end up in the back of the net ? How often does a shot of the post and the back of the keeper ends in the keepers arms ? 

Better than them for 90 mins out of 95 But yet again shot shy . Subs were very questionable , and didnt help us at all ,  Sheehan our best midfielder gets dragged off , Christie was a 20 minute liability , Erhahon gave the ball away more in 15 mins than the rest of the team . Burstow played in midfield and not one of 4 forwards got a single pass . 

No guts, drive, determination , energy or speed . No engine , no one to take the game by the scruff of the neck and decide to battle . 

Still soft as shit , none akin to Blake , Cunningham , Mixu , SKD , no natural finisher like SJM , Walker , Klasnic . 

No Macateer , TOMO , Pollock , Darby . 

I hate the fact Im screaming GET FUCKIN STUCK IN and FUCKIN SHOOT . and the backwards/sideways across the back 4/5 is driving me nuts . 

 

Still shouldve fuckin won that tho even with only 3 shots . 

[Wanderlust]

10 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Hard to argue against Evatt's strikers being better than SS's.  Going back to Doyle.  Then the Charles, JDB, Baka season, then Collins, McAtee (overpriced).  A strength for years has become a weakness under SS. 

Some criticism directed at the Board’s lack of ambition from Craig Barnes on FB along these lines:
 

* they sold two proven goal scorers in Collins and Charles, pocketed a load of money and replaced them with two loanees and a freebie (Burstow, Forss and Dalby)

* they didn’t spend all the money they got for Thommo on replacements 

* if they are serious about getting us promoted, they need to spend big now

For comparison,

Dion scored 45 goals in 122 appearances and Collins scored 20 in 64 

[desperado]

23 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Some criticism directed at the Board’s lack of ambition from Craig Barnes on FB along these lines:
 

* they sold two proven goal scorers in Collins and Charles, pocketed a load of money and replaced them with two loanees and a freebie (Burstow, Forss and Dalby)

* they didn’t spend all the money they got for Thommo on replacements 

* if they are serious about getting us promoted, they need to spend big now

For comparison,

Dion scored 45 goals in 122 appearances and Collins scored 20 in 64 

But he’s a lunatic who runs an asylum.

I don’t think folk on here are too interested in what he has to say and don’t want this place to turn into the unintelligent, over-reactionary cesspit that that has become.

Dion has struggled at Huddersfield and Collins only yesterday started showing anything like some goal-scoring form - And that’s in L2!

And do we really want to give any credence that the board aren’t serious about us getting up?

This isn’t a post about stifling debate after a defeat, more about keeping a context and not falling into clickbait, over-reactionary stuff that talks about EVERYTHING being wrong and that drastic change is required.

And that shit gets repeated on a daily basis! 

If that repeated, regurgitated doom-glooming nonsense takes over here, people will stop reading and posting if that’s the route we take.

 

[Rival Son]

9 minutes ago, desperado said:

Collins only yesterday started showing anything like some goal-scoring form - And that’s in L2!

 

You do realise that Collins was injured in the opening game of the season. Yesterday was his only his second start of the season, and he’d scored twice by half time.

[only1swanny]

46 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Some criticism directed at the Board’s lack of ambition from Craig Barnes on FB along these lines:
 

* they sold two proven goal scorers in Collins and Charles, pocketed a load of money and replaced them with two loanees and a freebie (Burstow, Forss and Dalby)

* they didn’t spend all the money they got for Thommo on replacements 

* if they are serious about getting us promoted, they need to spend big now

For comparison,

Dion scored 45 goals in 122 appearances and Collins scored 20 in 64 

Charles spent nearly a year without a goal, and his off pitch antics meant he needed to really move away from it all.

Collins faded under SS, at the end of the season he was nowhere near the player he was under Evatt, different styles of play.. 

We have good players but I do well that on a smaller pitch we need to cease the reliance on wingers and go straight down the middle... Pop two players on ACD and the game plans gone. 

As great as Dempsey is, i feel he offers more off the bench when he comes on. 

[masi 51]

34 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Some criticism directed at the Board’s lack of ambition from Craig Barnes on FB along these lines:
 

* they sold two proven goal scorers in Collins and Charles, pocketed a load of money and replaced them with two loanees and a freebie (Burstow, Forss and Dalby)

* they didn’t spend all the money they got for Thommo on replacements 

* if they are serious about getting us promoted, they need to spend big now

For comparison,

Dion scored 45 goals in 122 appearances and Collins scored 20 in 64 

Dont agree much he says but SS/Harkin had to bring money in before being allowed to  invest in the squad

They only paid fees for Gale600k Simons 300k and Erhahon 700k Total 1.6m  Everyone else was brought in free or on loan

Outgoings Thomason 1.2m Collins 800k  Giving a net spend of -400k

Less investment than Evatt had in his first and subsequent seasons.

Yes the board invested in the club in the last 12 months by paying the old regime off and bringing a new management team in on and off the field 

I said i wont judge  SS until next season until he gets rid of the last of players seeing contracts out and yes i have reservations how he sets up away from home but he gets a free pass until this time next season for me

[desperado]

Just now, Rival Son said:

You do realise that Collins was injured in the opening game of the season. Yesterday was his only his second start of the season, and he’d scored twice by half time.

Think it was in the back of my mind somewhere - but as he now plays for L2 Mk Dons I don’t really care too much for him.

People are trying to blame the board for selling him as a reason we didn’t beat Wycombe yesterday! 

 

[Eddie]

Just now, desperado said:

Think it was in the back of my mind somewhere - but as he now plays for L2 Mk Dons I don’t really care too much for him.

People are trying to blame the board for selling him as a reason we didn’t beat Wycombe yesterday! 

 

Making such bizarre links just highlights lack of intelligence mate - best leaving them to it rather than trying to explain (not directed at those on here, generally)