Meanwhile in Iran

[royal white]

3 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

To an extent. You can’t pop a label on every single person who’s been on a pro Palestine demo. So I’ll not be doing that. But we can agree the initial protests were poorly timed & disrespectful. 
 

Exactly. Which is why many argue the need for more political pressure & sanctions. Which is what the Dems were looking at Tbf.

 Anyway, you’ve just accidentally shown us why the lady in the video was wrong. Two very different situations & government approaches. It would be wrong to expect similar protests & pressure regarding Iran. When nobody is suggesting we do business with them or supporting denying their sovereignty. If we were trading with & arming the regime, I’m sure there would be more protests. 

Every single one of those that demonstrated straight after the October 7th attacks is a fkin M0ng. 
 

And nope the lady was right in many parts, yes it’s 2 different situations it doesn’t mean there can’t be a similar reaction. The fact that many who you see posting about Pro Palestine and attending their marches don’t want anyone to go in an help out tells you all you need to know. 

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Every single one of those that demonstrated straight after the October 7th attacks is a fkin M0ng. 

Can I just go in record as saying that I am in 100% agreement with you here. Just because people seem to have a really warped view of what I actually think these days. 

You'd have to be an absolute evil c*** to have taken to the streets in support of Hamas after the attacks at that festival. 

My mind boggles about what kind of person/people would actually do that. 

[royal white]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

Can I just go in record as saying that I am in 100% agreement with you here. Just because people seem to have a really warped view of what I actually think these days. 

You'd have to be an absolute evil c*** to have taken to the streets in support of Hamas after the attacks at that festival. 

My mind boggles about what kind of person/people would actually do that. 

Yes but you cat pop a label on them or something 🤷🏻‍♂️

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, royal white said:

 

The fact that many who you see posting about Pro Palestine and attending their marches don’t want anyone to go in an help out tells you all you need to know. 

That’s not a fact, it’s just a generalised conclusion you’ve jumped to. You also just said yourself that we should “watch from afar’

Probably why you enjoyed her video so much.

If somebody makes a ridiculously generalised point that the ‘ left ‘ are silent on Iran, then they can’t expect to be taken seriously. Especially when the reality is quite opposite.

If you want to have a discussion on why some on the far left are reluctant to criticise Islamic extremism like they do other types of fascism, then I’d be all ears. We’d end up agreeing with each other.

But the girl wasn’t specific, so her argument wasn’t a reflection of reality. 
 

And comparing to the Israel / Palestine conflict & protests is just daft. 

Edited January 30 by London Wanderer

[kent_white]

9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

That’s not a fact, it’s just a generalised conclusion you’ve jumped to. You also just said yourself that we should “watch from afar’

Probably why you enjoyed her video so much.

If somebody makes a ridiculously generalised point that the ‘ left ‘ are silent on Iran, then they can’t expect to be taken seriously. Especially when the reality is quite opposite.

If you want to have a discussion on why some on the far left are reluctant to criticise Islamic extremism like they do other types of fascism, then I’d be all ears. We’d end up agreeing with each other.

But the girl wasn’t specific, so her argument wasn’t a reflection of reality. 
 

And comparing to the Israel / Palestine conflict & protests is just daft. 

I agree with a lot of this. We're in real danger of each demonising the 'other side' these days. 

Let's face it - none of us on here is seriously of a persuasion that we would advocate limiting each others freedoms or way of life. 

I find this idea of 'evil leftists' vs 'evil Nazis' extremely troubling. 

We can't allow ourselves to be reduced to that level of debate. Because we just end up trying to paint the 'other side' as sub-human, worthy of ridicule, worthy of violence to suppress and all of that other dystopian, tyrannical shit that we seem to be heading towards. 

There's only one way this is heading unless we can take some of the heat out of things, or completely dismiss anything anybody says that doesn't agree with us, and it won't be pretty. An angry divided society at best, literal civil war at best. 

And the way some people talk on here sometimes (especially of late) - I'm not sure I'd be able to rely on them to protect my way of life in their new world. And that's a horrible thing to admit. 

I don't really know what I am anymore. I don't identity with the extreme left - and I don't identify with the extreme right. I don't like seeing innocent people lose their lives where it could possibly be avoided. In general I think I'd be happy to pay a bit more tax for better public services. I think we should do our best to help those genuinely in need and come down hard on people playing the system or taking the piss. 

Does that make me left wing. I'm not so sure it does really? I'm not idealogically wed to anything as providing it works, and people can just generally go about their business as they see fit. 

Someone pigeon hole me please. I need a label! 😁

[royal white]

21 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I agree with a lot of this. We're in real danger of each demonising the 'other side' these days. 

Let's face it - none of us on here is seriously of a persuasion that we would advocate limiting each others freedoms or way of life. 

I find this idea of 'evil leftists' vs 'evil Nazis' extremely troubling. 

We can't allow ourselves to be reduced to that level of debate. Because we just end up trying to paint the 'other side' as sub-human, worthy of ridicule, worthy of violence to suppress and all of that other dystopian, tyrannical shit that we seem to be heading towards. 

There's only one way this is heading unless we can take some of the heat out of things, or completely dismiss anything anybody says that doesn't agree with us, and it won't be pretty. An angry divided society at best, literal civil war at best. 

And the way some people talk on here sometimes (especially of late) - I'm not sure I'd be able to rely on them to protect my way of life in their new world. And that's a horrible thing to admit. 

I don't really know what I am anymore. I don't identity with the extreme left - and I don't identify with the extreme right. I don't like seeing innocent people lose their lives where it could possibly be avoided. In general I think I'd be happy to pay a bit more tax for better public services. I think we should do our best to help those genuinely in need and come down hard on people playing the system or taking the piss. 

Does that make me left wing. I'm not so sure it does really? I'm not idealogically wed to anything as providing it works, and people can just generally go about their business as they see fit. 

Someone pigeon hole me please. I need a label! 😁

It is a fact, many who I have seen posting about this conflict don’t want America to go in and help. It’s nothing to do with her video and my own observation.  Why would I make it up? 
 

And saying that some who attended the marches straight after Oct 7th shouldn’t have a label popped on them is just daft.

[kent_white]

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

It is a fact, many who I have seen posting about this conflict don’t want America to go in and help

I've seen a few. But I've seen a lot more who are supportive of any action that undermines the regime. Even amongst my most 'liberal' friends. I think there are those of us who worry about the power vacuum and something worse taking it's place. But I'm hoping we've learned lessons from our previous experiences in the Middle East. 

12 minutes ago, royal white said:

It’s nothing to do with her video and my own observation.  Why would I make it up? 

I don't think you would. But I do worry your news feeds and social media algorithms are bombarding you with nutjobs on the extremes because they know it gets a reaction from you. And I also worry you might tar us all with the same brush. 

 

13 minutes ago, royal white said:

And saying that some who attended the marches straight after Oct 7th shouldn’t have a label popped on them is just daft.

Maybe we could have a little symbol we force everyone to wear if we don't like them or what they stand for. Like a little yellow star or something? 😉

Sorry - I'm being facetious 😁 Yeah I wouldn't let anybody who attended a pro Palestine march immediately after the massacre anywhere near me or my loved ones. 

I might have more sympathy for people that marched a week or so later when it became clear what Israel's likely response was going to be and what that would likely mean for innocent people. 

I'd certainly have more sympathy with anybody that marched a couple of months in when hundreds of people were being killed everyday. I might have even joined one myself had it been local, easy to get to and well organised. I'm just not as energetic as I used to be. 

And I realise there are loads of counter arguments to everything I've just said. And they're probably all valid. It's very rare I think I'm absolutely right about anything. And if I am, it's usually a good indication that I've not thought it through properly. 

I can even see some sense in Bolty's 'destroy it at the root' argument. He might be right. In time - maybe fewer people will ultimately die by taking the actions Israel did. Who knows? 

Like I said earlier. I just don't like watching pictures of children having their arms and legs blown off. Maybe you're all right and I'm wrong. Maybe - horrific as it is - the short term horror is worth the long term peace? 

I suppose we just can't help how we react. I know I can't. 

Anyway - I'm out on a works do tonight so if you could have all this boxed off and sorted between the lot of you by tomorrow morning - I'd be ever so happy! 😁

[royal white]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

I've seen a few. But I've seen a lot more who are supportive of any action that undermines the regime. Even amongst my most 'liberal' friends. I think there are those of us who worry about the power vacuum and something worse taking it's place. But I'm hoping we've learned lessons from our previous experiences in the Middle East. 

I don't think you would. But I do worry your news feeds and social media algorithms are bombarding you with nutjobs on the extremes because they know it gets a reaction from you. And I also worry you might tar us all with the same brush. 

 

Maybe we could have a little symbol we force everyone to wear if we don't like them or what they stand for. Like a little yellow star or something? 😉

Sorry - I'm being facetious 😁 Yeah I wouldn't let anybody who attended a pro Palestine march immediately after the massacre anywhere near me or my loved ones. 

I might have more sympathy for people that marched a week or so later when it became clear what Israel's likely response was going to be and what that would likely mean for innocent people. 

I'd certainly have more sympathy with anybody that marched a couple of months in when hundreds of people were being killed everyday. I might have even joined one myself had it been local, easy to get to and well organised. I'm just not as energetic as I used to be. 

And I realise there are loads of counter arguments to everything I've just said. And they're probably all valid. It's very rare I think I'm absolutely right about anything. And if I am, it's usually a good indication that I've not thought it through properly. 

I can even see some sense in Bolty's 'destroy it at the root' argument. He might be right. In time - maybe fewer people will ultimately die by taking the actions Israel did. Who knows? 

Like I said earlier. I just don't like watching pictures of children having their arms and legs blown off. Maybe you're all right and I'm wrong. Maybe - horrific as it is - the short term horror is worth the long term peace? 

I suppose we just can't help how we react. I know I can't. 

Anyway - I'm out on a works do tonight so if you could have all this boxed off and sorted between the lot of you by tomorrow morning - I'd be ever so happy! 😁

Not so much algorithms but people from the left that I follow, the same topic is also being spoke about on Tv and in the press, there was a good piece on it on the Guardian (I think ) the other day.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

8 hours ago, kent_white said:

No I'd agree they're 'of the left' but I just wouldn't you should use them as a barometer of everybody on the left. 

They're a special interest group, representing Palestine - so it stands to reason they'd mobilise immediately. 

I just wouldn't use it as a broad indication about how everyone 'on the left' might be thinking. Whatever 'on the left' actually means these days. 

Fair enough

It might be that I've got involved in the middle of another discusssion but I wasn't making any points about left or right myself, just that there would be protests against the actions of the Isreali military regardless

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, royal white said:

It is a fact, many who I have seen posting about this conflict don’t want America to go in and help. It’s nothing to do with her video and my own observation.  

But you used those observations to try & argue she was right. Would you not agree at all that she generalised about ‘the left’?

I don’t doubt for a second that you’ve seen some of the pro Palestine movement argue against going in Iran. But that doesn’t mean everyone else who might be left wing is ‘silent’. 
 

And folk on all spectrums will be urging caution.

Fwiw I think there is an issue of hypocrisy amongst some on the far left when it comes  to Islamic extremism. It would be fckn brilliant if a group like hope not hate rocked up to a mosque known to be preaching fascist religious nonsense. I also think a lot of similar groups were too quiet when those teachers in Brum were being harassed by conservative Muslims, all because of a book about a kid with two dads. 
 

The lass in the video might be able to get her point across if she told us who it was actually aimed at. 

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

But you used those observations to try & argue she was right. Would you not agree at all that she generalised about ‘the left’?

I don’t doubt for a second that you’ve seen some of the pro Palestine movement argue against going in Iran. But that doesn’t mean everyone else who might be left wing is ‘silent’. 
 

And folk on all spectrums will be urging caution.

Fwiw I think there is an issue of hypocrisy amongst some on the far left when it comes  to Islamic extremism. It would be fckn brilliant if a group like hope not hate rocked up to a mosque known to be preaching fascist religious nonsense. I also think a lot of similar groups were too quiet when those teachers in Brum were being harassed by conservative Muslims, all because of a book about a kid with two dads. 
 

The lass in the video might be able to get her point across if she told us who it was actually aimed at. 

As I said in the post you replied to, (but you cut off) she was right in many parts. 

[London Wanderer]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

As I said in the post you replied to, (but you cut off) she was right in many parts. 

What was she right about specifically? 

[royal white]

9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

What was she right about specifically? 

How about you watch it again, if there’s nothing she says that you agree with then you’re to far gone.  

[bolty58]

12 hours ago, kent_white said:

I can understand the first part. The way Hamas were structured meant it was very difficult to carry out targeted strikes. 

The second part just sounds bonkers to me. Not sure what Walz has done to provoke people getting shot in the head. 

I don't feel like I struggle with any 'straight to the point approach'. I do struggle when I don't think the end justifies the mean. 

Walz and his cronies have been encouraging folk like Pretti. No more needs to be said.

[bolty58]

12 hours ago, Dimron said:

Another American engineered regime change?

After the massive balls up of Iraq?

Probably planning a massive weakening of the Revolutionary Guard which in turn will weaken the sitting government and enable the will of the majority (assuming they are the majority)

I would also be hesitant after the mega blunders in removing Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad. We have been here before. A ruthless despot is required in those places to keep the savages under control. A mistake to remove any of them as evidenced by the emergence of ISIS and others.

In considering the situation in Iran however, I would say it's vastly different simply by assessing what came before this mob of theological thugs took over.

Factor in the murder and mayhem the bastards have been responsible for financing around the globe and it's definitely a cancer which requires surgical removal. The sooner the better.

[bolty58]

12 hours ago, Dimron said:

Religion used to be the centre of everyone's lives... health care, farming, the lot. You can bet a fundamentalist Jew or Muslim will take his child to a science based hospital before consulting whatever witch doctor he believes in.

Religion has become the enforcing tool of regimes rather than the core reason for existence.

A national version of Shinto was "manufactured"  by the Japanese and they became a world force in the 100 years prior to WW2. Now we have North Korea creating their own religion making Kim Jong Un and his family deities but this time, considering what happened to the Japanese, making nuclear weapons integral to their religion.

Can't disagree.

Heinrich Himmler was well down the track of manufacturing another one based on Aryan nonsense. Thankfully nipped in the bud.

Can see why they try when you consider the flocks willing to swallow shite written by stone wheel technicians a couple of thousand years ago.

[London Wanderer]

3 hours ago, royal white said:

How about you watch it again, if there’s nothing she says that you agree with then you’re to far gone.  

Too far * 😉

i remember it well

Her whole argument went tits up from the moment she said “the left are silent”. 
 

All her points/rants after that were just based on that daft generalisation.

But you clearly got excited enough watching it to come on here and show us all. 

So what is it she says exactly that you think is so spot on ? 

[bolty58]

12 hours ago, Dimron said:

To a certain extent, I agree with Bolty. Saddam was evil but post invasiion the country spiralled downwards into militia led pseudo-religious anarchy.

You MUST read the Accidental Soldier by Owain Mulligan for a true insight i to what really happened on the ground in post Saddam Iraq... it is an entertaining book as well

Spider is becoming more idiotic by the day. Hard to believe really.

Probably beyond his capacity to understand the concept.

WTF am I on about. 'Probably'!!!???

[bolty58]

11 hours ago, kent_white said:

Also - if this does kick off, and the regime collapses. Migration Watch have predicted 1.5 million Iranian refugees arriving in the UK within the next decade. At a cost of £150 billion. 

Worst case scenario of course that some of the 'straight to the point' advocates might want to consider. 

I'll get straight to the point. You really should learn not to swallow everything produced by these organisations.

For a start, how will they all get in (unless there's a decades worth of yet another wet wipe government of the type we have now?

[bolty58]

10 hours ago, kent_white said:

So I'm just trying to be a realist

No you aren't. You are succeeding in being a sensationalist.

[London Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

 

Heinrich Himmler was well down the track of manufacturing another one based on Aryan nonsense. Thankfully nipped in the bud.

Can see why they try when you consider the flocks willing to swallow shite written by stone wheel technicians a couple of thousand years ago.

 

[bolty58]

7 hours ago, kent_white said:

I agree with a lot of this. We're in real danger of each demonising the 'other side' these days. 

Let's face it - none of us on here is seriously of a persuasion that we would advocate limiting each others freedoms or way of life. 

I find this idea of 'evil leftists' vs 'evil Nazis' extremely troubling. 

We can't allow ourselves to be reduced to that level of debate. Because we just end up trying to paint the 'other side' as sub-human, worthy of ridicule, worthy of violence to suppress and all of that other dystopian, tyrannical shit that we seem to be heading towards. 

There's only one way this is heading unless we can take some of the heat out of things, or completely dismiss anything anybody says that doesn't agree with us, and it won't be pretty. An angry divided society at best, literal civil war at best. 

And the way some people talk on here sometimes (especially of late) - I'm not sure I'd be able to rely on them to protect my way of life in their new world. And that's a horrible thing to admit. 

I don't really know what I am anymore. I don't identity with the extreme left - and I don't identify with the extreme right. I don't like seeing innocent people lose their lives where it could possibly be avoided. In general I think I'd be happy to pay a bit more tax for better public services. I think we should do our best to help those genuinely in need and come down hard on people playing the system or taking the piss. 

Does that make me left wing. I'm not so sure it does really? I'm not idealogically wed to anything as providing it works, and people can just generally go about their business as they see fit. 

Someone pigeon hole me please. I need a label! 😁

Centrist. Vote for Ed Daveys clowns.

[wanderer1984]

13 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

You can’t pop a label on every single person who’s been on a pro Palestine demo.

You and some on here do when its a "far right" demo. Just saying x

[bolty58]

2 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

You and some on here do when its a "far right" demo. Just saying x

One rule for them.............

[royal white]

12 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Too far * 😉

i remember it well

Her whole argument went tits up from the moment she said “the left are silent”. 
 

All her points/rants after that were just based on that daft generalisation.

But you clearly got excited enough watching it to come on here and show us all. 

So what is it she says exactly that you think is so spot on ? 

Like I said, you would need to watch it again then tell me that you disagree with everything. If you do then you’re too far gone.