No tags, links or clips by myself

Just a recommendation which I've mentioned before 

Watch Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis 

It's the closest explanation I've seen to our relatively modern fucked up world

Just now, royal white said:

You’ve clearly never dealt with the wanderers Ticket office

Do you have me pegged sitting in a box office?

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Do you have me pegged sitting in a box office?

Nope. 
 

Just now, royal white said:

Nope. 
 

😄 haha! That's not that far from the truth.

Love those pants. Need to get me a pair. 

6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

😂

The cesspit twitter police out in full force. The NHS hAs BeEn InFiLlRaTeD  

Anyway, time for our very own Wways Question Time

Is anti-Zionism antisemitic?  

I'm just the wanker in the audience asking the question by the way. Curious what folk think. 

 

I'd like to know exactly what these protestors think Zionism is, what they mean by anti-Zionism, and also what they think anti-Zionism looks like in practice now the State of Israel exists

For a bit of Boby balance, I think those protesting from the other side of the fence should tell us clearly where they think the borders of Israel should begin and end

28 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'd like to know exactly what these protestors think Zionism is, what they mean by anti-Zionism, and also what they think anti-Zionism looks like in practice now the State of Israel exists

For a bit of Boby balance, I think those protesting from the other side of the fence should tell us clearly where they think the borders of Israel should begin and end

I'm not one of those protesting from the other side but think Israel should be where it was originally drawn up to be

That doesn't include Gaza or The West Bank for example 

It doesn't look like this anymore though

 

20 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'd like to know exactly what these protestors think Zionism is, what they mean by anti-Zionism, and also what they think anti-Zionism looks like in practice now the State of Israel exists

For a bit of Boby balance, I think those protesting from the other side of the fence should tell us clearly where they think the borders of Israel should begin and end

There does seem to be a common misconception amongst these people that Zionists don't think Palestine should exist. When Zionism appears to be a spectrum of beliefs with some believing in a two state solution and some not. 

For me it seems to just mean the belief in an independent Jewish state. 

But with so much land taken historically and so much being taken still, you can understand why Palestinians would sing kick the Zionists out. Just like the irish sang go on home British soldiers. 

No idea why randomers in London are singing though. But these protests seem to be getting odder by the day.

The borders have to be drawn up by a board of nations from the middle East, Europe and US. Some land surely has to be returned to Palestinians as part of two state solution. And there has to be far more pressure applied to the Israeli government. 

11 hours ago, Sweep said:

The m0ngs who reckoned that caused more terror attacks. They're best ignored. 

Go on. Put me on ignore. It's been an ambition of mine. Licquorice Allsort man almost  brought it home but relented.

The gormless cunts who recognised Palestine emboldened Islamist terrorists. Of this I have no doubt.

M0ng eh?

9 hours ago, royal white said:

I wondered why you was up late last night @kent_white last train back? 😉😆

 

 

Utter fucking scumbags.

9 hours ago, Zico said:

I'm not one of those protesting from the other side but think Israel should be where it was originally drawn up to be

That doesn't include Gaza or The West Bank for example 

It doesn't look like this anymore though

 

Kinell, Judea never existed?

Ever shifting sands and borders out there.

Iraq didn't exist for example. 

1947 until now is a mere blink of an eye, in amongst the thousands of years of the existence of Jews in the area.

How far do we go back-just enough to ignore all the relevant details?

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Kinell, Judea never existed?

Ever shifting sands and borders out there.

Iraq didn't exist for example. 

1947 until now is a mere blink of an eye, in amongst the thousands of years of the existence of Jews in the area.

How far do we go back-just enough to ignore all the relevant details?

So answer the question then 

Where do you think the borders or Israel should begin and end 

What was wrong with what they came up with in 1947 when they created Israel and defined its borders?

54 minutes ago, Zico said:

What was wrong with what they came up with in 1947 when they created Israel and defined its borders?

Plenty according to the pro Palestinian lot on here. 'From the river to the sea' and all that genocidal jazz.

10 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Go on. Put me on ignore. It's been an ambition of mine. Licquorice Allsort man almost  brought it home but relented.

The gormless cunts who recognised Palestine emboldened Islamist terrorists. Of this I have no doubt.

M0ng eh?

They were plenty "emboldened" prior to being recognised as a state, by most of the world. They'll kill people and blow things up whether they are recognised as a State or not, it's just how they're wired. There is no end to it, there never will be, there cannot be, unless a two state solution is allowed (which will absolutely never happen in that region)

If the state of Palestine wasn't recognised, do you think they wouldn't feel less emboldened, and there would be less terror attacks?

4 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Kinell, Judea never existed?

Ever shifting sands and borders out there.

Iraq didn't exist for example. 

1947 until now is a mere blink of an eye, in amongst the thousands of years of the existence of Jews in the area.

How far do we go back-just enough to ignore all the relevant details?

Some odd deflections there

 History is relevant to negotiating a two state solution.

Surely you would agree that Israel have to give some land back ? At least the land taken illegally under more recent international law. 
 

Outside organisations & nations should draw up the borders. It will never satisfy either side. But if either resists then military intervention & sanctions will be necessary . Over time both sides may adapt. Peace has been negotiated in the past amidst such hatred. 

At the moment it’s only one side who are punished when they break international law. It has to apply to Israel as well

Edited February 2Feb 2 by London Wanderer

11 hours ago, Sweep said:

They were plenty "emboldened" prior to being recognised as a state, by most of the world. They'll kill people and blow things up whether they are recognised as a State or not, it's just how they're wired. There is no end to it, there never will be, there cannot be, unless a two state solution is allowed (which will absolutely never happen in that region)

If the state of Palestine wasn't recognised, do you think they wouldn't feel less emboldened, and there would be less terror attacks?

Yes. I believe that the murderous cunts received a shot in the arm at that news.

Don't you?

My aviation geek contacts are detecting another massive migration of military aircraft towards the middle east today, including 50+ fighter jets and some more that are half way over the Atlantic to stop off here tonight before carrying on tomorrow. This is one big old build up thats going on.

2 hours ago, Marc505 said:

My aviation geek contacts are detecting another massive migration of military aircraft towards the middle east today, including 50+ fighter jets and some more that are half way over the Atlantic to stop off here tonight before carrying on tomorrow. This is one big old build up thats going on.

A few more Globemasters with RCH call sign have left USA in the last hour or two, looks like heading our way over the Atlantic.

13 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

A few more Globemasters with RCH call sign have left USA in the last hour or two, looks like heading our way over the Atlantic.

The tankers are the ones to follow on FR24 they're usually a giveaway. All this stuff on the move last few days plus the carriers and whatever is already based over there plus the long range bombers... starting to look a bit inevitable this.

1 hour ago, Marc505 said:

The tankers are the ones to follow on FR24 they're usually a giveaway. All this stuff on the move last few days plus the carriers and whatever is already based over there plus the long range bombers... starting to look a bit inevitable this.

Been this way for a few weeks though. 

I posted about it a little while ago- lad was watching tankers etc all over the area.

Trump definitely spoke too soon, as his threats couldn't be carried out at the time, as they weren't ready. 

Maybe the surprise element- what there was of it initially- has gone now. 

Which will make the military requirements that big bigger.

9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Been this way for a few weeks though. 

I posted about it a little while ago- lad was watching tankers etc all over the area.

Trump definitely spoke too soon, as his threats couldn't be carried out at the time, as they weren't ready. 

Maybe the surprise element- what there was of it initially- has gone now. 

Which will make the military requirements that big bigger.

Trump tweeting that help was coming was just stupid, but what's new.

Suppose it depends what kind of operation they want to carry out. They could have repeated what they did last year using stealth aircraft, but 40-odd F-16's joining the fray today suggests something different.

Unless they want them for defence against a mass drone retaliation for whatever they're planning with the main element

Absolutely. 

That's why he should have kept his powder dry.

Reinforced defenses at their bases etc before hitting quick and hard.

Similar to the previous attack- air defense systems then their strike capabilites. 

They've been repairing their capabilites quite quickly, but you would imagine they're still weak.

I reckon they will be looking at drone storage/launching facilities too.

Presumably Growlers can have some sort of an effect on drone swarms with their EW capabilites. 

13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Absolutely. 

That's why he should have kept his powder dry.

Reinforced defenses at their bases etc before hitting quick and hard.

Similar to the previous attack- air defense systems then their strike capabilites. 

They've been repairing their capabilites quite quickly, but you would imagine they're still weak.

I reckon they will be looking at drone storage/launching facilities too.

Presumably Growlers can have some sort of an effect on drone swarms with their EW capabilites. 

From what I've read about the previous strike and the Israeli campaign is that Iran's defences were surprisingly poor. I think they expected some losses, so will probably be confident of similar this time.

I do wonder what the plan is though. If its another limited strike on drone/WMD facilities/radar etc then how does that tally with help being on the way.

If its more about regime change, well this is now confirmed to be the biggest buildup of tactical aircraft since the second Iraq war so thats a start, but theres no sign of ground forces being mobilised.

Im assuming this is going to end up being another mass strike on infrastructure, that will then be dressed up as Trump liberating the Iranian people from oppression. And then onto the next thing.

I've always thought that it would be based around 2 things. 

Severely degrade their ability to wage war, by similar attacks to before.

Additionally, degrade their home security forces. IRGC or any others.

Just watched a YouTube job about this very build up, saying similar.

Facilitate the overthrow of the regime by the people.

With the security forces wrecked, I reckon the top brass would soon fuck off to Putin.

Don't need to put boots on the ground. Indeed doing so may be counterproductive. 

 

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I've always thought that it would be based around 2 things. 

Severely degrade their ability to wage war, by similar attacks to before.

Additionally, degrade their home security forces. IRGC or any others.

Just watched a YouTube job about this very build up, saying similar.

Facilitate the overthrow of the regime by the people.

With the security forces wrecked, I reckon the top brass would soon fuck off to Putin.

Don't need to put boots on the ground. Indeed doing so may be counterproductive. 

 

I feel that will be the ultimate goal.

And what a fine track record they have in that department!

4 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

I feel that will be the ultimate goal.

And what a fine track record they have in that department!

Aye.

Devil and the deep blue sea though here.

Can't allow them nuclear weapons. 

Thankfully, there is a diverse range of people there, and the majority seem to want regime change.

Clear the way for them to sort it themselves. 

6 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye.

Devil and the deep blue sea though here.

Can't allow them nuclear weapons. 

Thankfully, there is a diverse range of people there, and the majority seem to want regime change.

Clear the way for them to sort it themselves. 

Majority may want to return to a progressive society but seems the lunatic religious fringe have all the AK47s and HiLux’s in the Middle East. 
 

Unless there was a ruthless leadership installed like Saudi or UAE will probably return to being a threat before long