jules_darby Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Turning it all to shit in the space of a season deserves no praise. Past glories won't do anything to keep us up. Don't think anyone's happy with the current predicament and if we go down at the end of the season I may agree with you about Gartside / Megson; but what exactly are you suggesting for right now as a positive step?
HomerJay Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
jules_darby Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor. Oh sit down
Zico Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 In a word, no. That's like saying we should retain our place in the Premier league because we did well in the last few seasons. Do you honestly think that we'll be left with a 'decent squad' if we go down? How many of the current first team will stick around on Championship wages? And if you're telling me that Megson with one failed season in the Premier League was the best a club with four consecutive top eight finishes, a world class striker on their books, a place in the UEFA Cup and money in the bank could do, then i'd say it's further evidence that Gartside's time is up. and you would've appointed who? we wanted to speak to bruce, wasn't available at the time neither was mccleish or if i remember right coleman souness wanted it and that if I remember right was that so who would you have gone for? I'm not saying he was my number one choice, but of those managers whom we tried to speak to and whom we know applied, I think he was possibly the best of a bad bunch, we can't make top class managers take the job if they're not interested oh and if gartside's previous work at the club doesn't count towards what he does this season then I don't see how megson's history as a manager before bolton can used either to judge him either - that of course though is a ridiculous notion, we all know when offering a balanced view you have to look beyond the present time, don't we? if though, you insist on concentrating on this season alone, then look at where we were when megson took over and where we are now, and if you still want to brand him a failure (and I know this has been pointed out before, but I must stress this) with 1/4 of the season left then so be it
bolty58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 When you're in a hole it's probably best to stop digging. You really are a smug tw@t aren't you? The day I care about a c0ckend like you and your opinion is the day I'll give up.
Zico Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 The answer for us down the years is that our Chairmen have either appointed bad managers or not invested enough money.The problem i have with Gartside is that he isn't a seriously rich man and can't get the owner to spend serious money.Smaller clubs than us in Wigan and Fulham established themselves in the PL due to the money of wealthy Chairmen,Middlesbrough won their first trophy thanks to a wealthy Chairman. The best Chairmen are the ones that provide deep funds to propel their club up the table. right Wigan established themselves? they stayed up on the last day last season and in a relegation dog fight this, things we achieved without spending money Fulham, well, maybe not eh Boro - ok, they won a trophy but I don't think compared to the money spent under Gibson it would've been considered value for money, and more often than not they are at the wrong end of the table the best chairmen are the ones who have a long term vision and look to let the manager build something over a number of years you only need to look at arsenal and utd for this, and before last season, alladyce was longest serving manager number 3 it's also no coincidence moyes is starting to see the rewards of a patient chairman who lets him get on with the job by your standards, abramovich is the best chairman in the league, the one who sacked chelsea's best manager in years and employed one of his mates and who will now more than likely chop and change every two or so years in a bid to get back to where they were under mourinho freddy shepherd too must be there and so long as newcastle stay up it won't be long till ashley joins the elite you of chairman you look up to
bolty58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 right Wigan established themselves? they stayed up on the last day last season and in a relegation dog fight this, things we achieved without spending money Fulham, well, maybe not eh Boro - ok, they won a trophy but I don't think compared to the money spent under Gibson it would've been considered value for money, and more often than not they are at the wrong end of the table the best chairmen are the ones who have a long term vision and look to let the manager build something over a number of years you only need to look at arsenal and utd for this, and before last season, alladyce was longest serving manager number 3 it's also no coincidence moyes is starting to see the rewards of a patient chairman who lets him get on with the job by your standards, abramovich is the best chairman in the league, the one who sacked chelsea's best manager in years and employed one of his mates and who will now more than likely chop and change every two or so years in a bid to get back to where they were under mourinho freddy shepherd too must be there and so long as newcastle stay up it won't be long till ashley joins the elite you of chairman you look up to The most sensible post in this entire thread. Spot on.
trotter58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 The next time I express a single coherent opinion will be the first.
trotter58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 oh and if gartside's previous work at the club doesn't count towards what he does this season then I don't see how megson's history as a manager before bolton can used either to judge him either - that of course though is a ridiculous notion, we all know when offering a balanced view you have to look beyond the present time, don't we? Wrong. For the umpteenth time, people in top positions are judged on results. They draw big salaries because they are paid to make big decisions. Getting decisions right in the past counts for nothing in the present. It's called 'Resting on your laurels', otherwise known as complacency.
bolty58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 QUOTE(bolty58 @ Mar 5 2008, 03:24 PM) The next time I express a single coherent opinion will be the first. Bite of the highest order
Zico Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Wrong. For the umpteenth time, people in top positions are judged on results. They draw big salaries because they are paid to make big decisions. Getting decisions right in the past counts for nothing in the present. It's called 'Resting on your laurels', otherwise known as complacency. you are correct (to an extent*) lee found this out and paid the price and the point I've been trying to get across throughout this thread..... with 10 games to go, it's too early to say whether or not megson was the right decision or not * the extent being of course getting decisions right in the past count towards the present, without the decision to employ alladyce and offer him a 10 year contract, we wouldn't be in the position we are now
enzo gambaro Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Who'd have thought Callie Call's drivel at the top of this thread would spark such debate?
tyldesley_white Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Abramovich isn't the Chairman but he could have that name if he wanted it.But yes he is the Chairman i would want most at Bolton.Before he arrived at Chelsea they had won one league title in just under 100 years.Abromovic has seen them win 2 in 5 years.With the amount of money he spent,it was inevitable any decent manager would win a title.Mourinho has to be given credit for winning it so quickly though.Wigan and Fulham have both been transformed from 4th Division clubs to Premier League clubs by wealthy ambitious chairmen.If Fulham drop i would expect them to finish in the top 2 next season.I can't see Wigan going down this season which would give them a 4th season in the top flight. The long term vision is over rated.It's no use sticking with a manager who isn't good enough.Moyes is an example of a manager who came good after a bad season,Colin Todd was one who got 4 seasons but left us skint and worse than when he took over.He should have gone around 18 months before he did. Hindsight, what a wonderful thing
jules_darby Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Wrong. For the umpteenth time, people in top positions are judged on results. They draw big salaries because they are paid to make big decisions. Getting decisions right in the past counts for nothing in the present. It's called 'Resting on your laurels', otherwise known as complacency. Consistency is required for those type of positions though - if you judge people on one result / season / whatever, you will make snap decisions that are incorrect. I'm still awaiting your glorious answer to our current predicament
Zico Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Abramovich isn't the Chairman but he could have that name if he wanted it.But yes he is the Chairman i would want most at Bolton.Before he arrived at Chelsea they had won one league title in just under 100 years.Abromovic has seen them win 2 in 5 years.With the amount of money he spent,it was inevitable any decent manager would win a title.Mourinho has to be given credit for winning it so quickly though.Wigan and Fulham have both been transformed from 4th Division clubs to Premier League clubs by wealthy ambitious chairmen.If Fulham drop i would expect them to finish in the top 2 next season.I can't see Wigan going down this season which would give them a 4th season in the top flight. The long term vision is over rated.It's no use sticking with a manager who isn't good enough.Moyes is an example of a manager who came good after a bad season,Colin Todd was one who got 4 seasons but left us skint and worse than when he took over.He should have gone around 18 months before he did. shepherd and ashley? don't be selective now
jules_darby Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Wigan and Fulham have both been transformed from 4th Division clubs to Premier League clubs by wealthy ambitious chairmen.If Fulham drop i would expect them to finish in the top 2 next season.I can't see Wigan going down this season which would give them a 4th season in the top flight. So Wigan and Fulham have spent more money than us and have yet had poorer league records over the last few years. I know who I think is the better chairman.
trotter58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Consistency is required for those type of positions though - if you judge people on one result / season / whatever, you will make snap decisions that are incorrect. So by that logic we should have given Sammy Lee the whole season to get it right should we? It's way too late to do anything about our current predicament... unless Fat Sam fancies a quick return.
jules_darby Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 So by that logic we should have given Sammy Lee the whole season to get it right should we? It's way too late to do anything about our current predicament... unless Fat Sam fancies a quick return. No, it's all relative. Sammy Lee had a number of major problems and was given a fair time considering he had no proven experience at managing a Premier League football club. Gartside has proven he can chair a Premier League football club successfully * *If we do get relegated this may change, but let's not jump the gun kids.
revdishydave Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 we have exeperienced extremes of sweet and sour this season, under the administration of mr gartside. i would rather enjoy the rollercoaster- we have been to some far out places. the time to determine whether this is a success is the end of the season. i'm confident we wont feel the breath of sadness i believe this wave will bear our weight, so let it flow
tyldesley_white Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Newcastle are a club that haven't won a major trophy since 1955.They are a club that had several seasons in the 2nd Division during the 60s/70s/80s and 90s.Throughout Shepherd's reign they didn't get relegated so it wasn't a particularly bad period for them.I'd settle for Shepherd to come here and get the same league positions that he did at Newcastle. The jury is out on Ashley.It is unknown whether he has bought Newcastle to make money or to buy them success. Ashley = ego trip
frank_spencer Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Wrong. For the umpteenth time, people in top positions are judged on results. They draw big salaries because they are paid to make big decisions. Getting decisions right in the past counts for nothing in the present. It's called 'Resting on your laurels', otherwise known as complacency. OK Joe Bloggs is a CEO of an electronics firm he gets them from being a fairly decent sized company upto top 8 in the FTSE, a bit of a blip in the company's progess etc due to a couple of errors on his part and that of others over the past 6-12 months see's them slip slightly down the stock market. Now this is nothing panic worthy as thanks to the financial stability and set up he has helped to bring in the company's long term future is safe as long as the company remains towards the top. After bringing in a new performance manager, when the firm was close to falling out of the FTSE100, there has been a marked improvement in the companies performances but the last couple of weeks have been difficult. We are now entering the 4th quarter of the financial year and there could be problems if the company loses its current standing. Said CEO does what to change things? Sack off his recently appointed manager leaving the club with no real direction and possibly no-one better to replace him. Quit and feck off into the sun set i mean he doesn't care he's only there to get onto various industry bodies and hob nob with the elite. Stick it out and trust in his staff to get the job done whilst ensuring that if the worst does happen he has plans to help the company through the forthcoming bad patch
Casino Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Newcastle are a club that haven't won a major trophy since 1955.They are a club that had several seasons in the 2nd Division during the 60s/70s/80s and 90s.Throughout Shepherd's reign they didn't get relegated so it wasn't a particularly bad period for them.I'd settle for Shepherd to come here and get the same league positions that he did at Newcastle. The jury is out on Ashley.It is unknown whether he has bought Newcastle to make money or to buy them success. but they haven't been as succesful as us in the last four or five years, so i really don't know where you're going
Casino Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 So by that logic we should have given Sammy Lee the whole season to get it right should we? It's way too late to do anything about our current predicament... unless Fat Sam fancies a quick return. eee, and that from the woman who wanted allardyce out
bolty58 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Newcastle are a club that haven't won a major trophy since 1955. You clearly don't class their 1969 Inter Cities Fairs Cup win as 'major' then? I fooking do - it was the predecessor to the UEFA Cup. Jumping threads a little but I, for one, would be ecstatic if we could win this seasons UEFA Cup. As many have said, it is highly unlikely (but not impossible). It would be the greatest achievement in the clubs history, irrespective of whether or not we maintain our PL status.
Spider Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 You clearly don't class their 1969 Inter Cities Fairs Cup win as 'major' then? I fooking do - it was the predecessor to the UEFA Cup. Jumping threads a little but I, for one, would be ecstatic if we could win this seasons UEFA Cup. As many have said, it is highly unlikely (but not impossible). It would be the greatest achievement in the clubs history, irrespective of whether or not we maintain our PL status. Spot on. Fans of bigger clubs spend their lives harping on about throwing medals on the table in an argument - it would be simply jaw-dropping if BWFC could pull off a UEFA cup triumph. I'd take a 2/3 year purgatory in the championship for it no hesitation.
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