For the record annual tax revenue on cigarettes more than covers the yearly cost to the NHS of smoking related illness

 

Also on another point the average smoker in his lifetime costs much less than a non smoker. Smokers on average die younger with relatively quicker deaths vs non smokers who stumble on tgrough old age getting a state pension, hip replacements, assisted care etc etc

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by birch-chorley

I personally think there is a very skewed perspective on here. I'm far from left wing but then people on here genuinely think the Lib Dems were left wing. Scary.

 

I don't like the nanny state and believe people need to take more control over their lives. I've also mentioned that like you I am far from keen on child benefit being an automatic right. State subsidies babies doesn't sit well.

 

But I'm fundamentally against NHS privatisation. We need to decide whether we want to pay for the NHS or whether we'd rather have less support from it.

 

I don't like serial welfare claimants who have no interest it work but also can see that there is a big danger of just tarring everyone on benefits with the same brush. I can also see that it is easy for folk to blame them for our issues. Yet the proposition of money they cost is minuscule in comparison to multinationals who aren't paying their tax.

 

I don't think the free market is the answer to all our problems, the last recession showed that. I also don't think it is the route of all evil and I believe that strong public services can co-exist with a strong economy.

 

As I've said before that probably makes me a commie on here but in reality that is pretty much in the middle.

Multinationals not paying tax??

 

I think you will find that it's very difficult to get away without paying tax, unless you've not made a profit of course.

 

Look at Bwfc, turned over probably half a billion over the last 10-15 years, managed to pay its foreign owner tens of millions in interest but not a penny to the revenue as corporation tax

 

Our accounting principles are the same for a sandwhich shop or Starbucks, you pay tax on profit, if your not making a profit to loan repayments then you don't pay tax.

 

If you try and change this fundamental accounting rule then it would be a huge disadvantage to bringing in much needed foreign investment.

 

It just the sort of left wing, radical, I'll thought through, pandering to the clueless masses policy that made Milliband look a right cunt

And yet the NHS still ranks first in the world for quality, access and efficiency.

Its almost twice as expensive as private.

For the record annual tax revenue on cigarettes more than covers the yearly cost to the NHS of smoking related illness

 

Also on another point the average smoker in his lifetime costs much less than a non smoker. Smokers on average die younger with relatively quicker deaths vs non smokers who stumble on tgrough old age getting a state pension, hip replacements, assisted care etc etc

Yes this is all true. I dont smoke, but I know that smokers pay way more into the NHS with all the extra tax on cigarettes.

( Of course, those on snides from EU.dont )

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by overseas

``Our accounting principles are the same for a sandwhich shop or Starbucks, you pay tax on profit, if your not making a profit to loan repayments then you don't pay tax.``

 

That is really interesting. I shall be thinking about that all day now :lol:.

Regarding independent sandwich shop and cafes, you may encounter isolated cases of staff urinating into customer' beverages-probably due to mental illness or drug or alcohol problems however the practice isn't so deeply entrenched in their service culture as to be considered normal, nay, expected, behaviour.

Its almost twice as expensive as private.

That's because it offers a great deal many more services than private healthcare. GP services, pharmacists, dental, ambulance services, mental health, optometrists, social care, community and district nursing for example.

 

It's also because private healthcare cherry picks patients and what conditions it will treat. It doesn't usually cover you for anything pre existing, chronic illnesses like diabetes/COPD/hypertension. It won't usually cover organ transplants, pregnancy or childbirth or injuries from what they deem to be dangerous sports or hazardous activities. They also don't have A&E departments so if you have a road traffic accident for example, you'll get picked up in an NHS ambulance and taken to an NHS hospital where you'll usually stay until you're stable to be moved to your choice of private hospital (that's providing that private hospital offers any specialist services which you might need which is not always the case).

 

Plus that figure you calculated is based on a relatively healthy person - try and recalculate it for a 75 year old diabetic with high blood pressure and sciatica.

 

I'm not saying private healthcare doesn't have its place if you have the money and want quicker service (sometimes but not always btw) - but it's not a fair comparison.

Its almost twice as expensive as private.

 

Compared to what? I don't think there are any comparable private services in the UK.

 

I remember being told that an equivalent private healthcare insurance in the US that was broadly but not quite as comprehensive as the NHS was over £300 per month. And still wasn't as good as the NHS equivalent.

Bit early after the legislation has commenced to arrive at such a sweeping generalisation.

 

Drawdown has been available since 1995 and many of those in Drawdown have used their pension funds, in line with other assets, pretty well.

 

Drawdown has been available within strict limits since 1995. Webb proposed easing those limits - Osborne said we'll sweep them away.

I visited one of the major providers websites. It allowed me to estimate my life expectancy and then told me that I needed to aim to ensure the funded lasted until then. But clearly almost half will live beyond that life expectancy, some considerably so.

Early indications are that annuity sales are down 90%. A little of that is those keen to take advantage of the new rules, but even if they only fall 80% in the longer run that is a situation will will haunt a future government.

But that is someone else's problem, so carry on regardless. Again. grr

@50ShadesOfTory: As she lay there, trembling and powerless to resist, Iain Duncan Smith threw away her wheelchair and declared her fit for work.

That's because it offers a great deal many more services than private healthcare. GP services, pharmacists, dental, ambulance services, mental health, optometrists, social care, community and district nursing for example.

 

It's also because private healthcare cherry picks patients and what conditions it will treat. It doesn't usually cover you for anything pre existing, chronic illnesses like diabetes/COPD/hypertension. It won't usually cover organ transplants, pregnancy or childbirth or injuries from what they deem to be dangerous sports or hazardous activities. They also don't have A&E departments so if you have a road traffic accident for example, you'll get picked up in an NHS ambulance and taken to an NHS hospital where you'll usually stay until you're stable to be moved to your choice of private hospital (that's providing that private hospital offers any specialist services which you might need which is not always the case).

 

Plus that figure you calculated is based on a relatively healthy person - try and recalculate it for a 75 year old diabetic with high blood pressure and sciatica.

 

I'm not saying private healthcare doesn't have its place if you have the money and want quicker service (sometimes but not always btw) - but it's not a fair comparison.

 

Yes true, I agree with you. you are right. I am not suggesting the NHS is bad, it isnt, we need it and it is very good. I was just looking at figures is all.

The things you outlined there shows that it is definately worth it.

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by overseas

Compared to what? I don't think there are any comparable private services in the UK.

 

I remember being told that an equivalent private healthcare insurance in the US that was broadly but not quite as comprehensive as the NHS was over £300 per month. And still wasn't as good as the NHS equivalent.

Yes you are right. I just used some figures I found online. I agree with you.

@50ShadesOfTory: As she lay there, trembling and powerless to resist, Iain Duncan Smith threw away her wheelchair and declared her fit for work.

 

Are you going over to the Khmer Rouge of the likes of Bwfcfan5 and Traf, sjm?

 

We all know that doesn't happen, there are however, thousands of jobs in the empty cardboard box moving and pouring milk industries currently being filled by non-workshy Polish and Lithuanian disabled, our lot need to pull their fingers out...

 

It's not just the foreigners who aren't lazy either, Stephen Hawking copes perfectly well with solving the theory of relatives and appearing in episodes of The Simpsons perfectly well in spite of his bad back and stuff, so why shouldn't we be having another look our our glassbacks possibly (definitely)-overestimating-their-ailments folk? They might actually have a use in life, so good on IDS.

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by Youri McAnespie

I'm not some heartless twat either, I stuck 28p in the John Sergeant tin on Wetherspoons bar on Saturday, and then another 2p later.

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by Youri McAnespie

That's because it offers a great deal many more services than private healthcare. GP services, pharmacists, dental, ambulance services, mental health, optometrists, social care, community and district nursing for example.

 

It's also because private healthcare cherry picks patients and what conditions it will treat. It doesn't usually cover you for anything pre existing, chronic illnesses like diabetes/COPD/hypertension. It won't usually cover organ transplants, pregnancy or childbirth or injuries from what they deem to be dangerous sports or hazardous activities. They also don't have A&E departments so if you have a road traffic accident for example, you'll get picked up in an NHS ambulance and taken to an NHS hospital where you'll usually stay until you're stable to be moved to your choice of private hospital (that's providing that private hospital offers any specialist services which you might need which is not always the case).

 

Plus that figure you calculated is based on a relatively healthy person - try and recalculate it for a 75 year old diabetic with high blood pressure and sciatica.

 

I'm not saying private healthcare doesn't have its place if you have the money and want quicker service (sometimes but not always btw) - but it's not a fair comparison.

Spot on! Can't believe anyone would make the comparison to be honest. The two services are completely different. If you want private thats more akin to NHS you have to pay American levels of insurance, my mate & ex colleague whose been working in a Chicago factory since the 90's paid in over 20% of his salary for family healthcare to cover all eventualities.

Multinationals not paying tax??

 

I think you will find that it's very difficult to get away without paying tax, unless you've not made a profit of course.

 

Look at Bwfc, turned over probably half a billion over the last 10-15 years, managed to pay its foreign owner tens of millions in interest but not a penny to the revenue as corporation tax

 

Our accounting principles are the same for a sandwhich shop or Starbucks, you pay tax on profit, if your not making a profit to loan repayments then you don't pay tax.

 

If you try and change this fundamental accounting rule then it would be a huge disadvantage to bringing in much needed foreign investment.

 

It just the sort of left wing, radical, I'll thought through, pandering to the clueless masses policy that made Milliband look a right cunt

 

But whats all this about Google, Amazon, and Starbuck though? Did they not declare their profit in Luxembourg or some other pretend country thus claiming their UK operations were not making profit? Surely that is the loophole?

 

The argument that all these would pack up and leave is completely flawed, they are here because the British public buy an awful lot of their goods.

It just the sort of left wing, radical, I'll thought through, pandering to the clueless masses policy that made Milliband look a right cunt

Didn't the Conservatives just make a clampdown on aggressive tax avoidance part of their manifesto?

Multinationals not paying tax??

 

I think you will find that it's very difficult to get away without paying tax, unless you've not made a profit of course.

 

Look at Bwfc, turned over probably half a billion over the last 10-15 years, managed to pay its foreign owner tens of millions in interest but not a penny to the revenue as corporation tax

 

Our accounting principles are the same for a sandwhich shop or Starbucks, you pay tax on profit, if your not making a profit to loan repayments then you don't pay tax.

 

If you try and change this fundamental accounting rule then it would be a huge disadvantage to bringing in much needed foreign investment.

 

It just the sort of left wing, radical, I'll thought through, pandering to the clueless masses policy that made Milliband look a right cunt

 

I'm sure you know what I'm referring to. And it isn't anything to do with left wing radical thinking at all.

Farage staying on :lol:

 

Resigned for 3 days

Me, No Balls and Chris Green are going for a pint in Horwich.

 

It must be true, he twittered it and everything.

 

I'm proposing champagne with a few plates of freshly hound-hunted fox steaks.

 

For pudding we'll be gorging on humble pie served up by forelock-tugging labour voters, doffing their caps and apologising for being such poor fucking losers.

Edited May 11, 201511 yr by Spider

This man is richer than any number of fucking Horwich losers put together...And he f*cking loves being a hypocrite too...

 

Here's Russ doing more good works against the machine...

 

 

And, for those of you who's interest has been piqued by the last photo, here's the full lowdown on how Russell took up arms for the common man and women against a odious group of American bullyboys - and won! 

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/48f47aca-8788-11e4-bc7c-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

Me, No Balls and Chris Green are going for a pint in Horwich.

 

It must be true, he twittered it and everything.

 

I'm proposing champagne with a few plates of freshly hound-hunted fox steaks.

 

For pudding we'll be gorging on humble pie served up by forelock-tugging labour voters, doffing their caps and apologising for being such poor fucking losers.

I nipped in the local Saturday tea time to make sure I hadn't been banned such was the state we ended up in last weekend. Anyway, we are reet so whenever Chris has settled into his new job I'll reserve a table in the tap room for us.

Surprise, surprise, the capitalisp pigs at the FT don't believe in a free press, that link is only accessible after paying a subscription.

 

Luckily, we have the good old Guardian to fall back on...

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/23/after-new-era-its-harder-than-ever-to-mock-russell-brand-as-a-hypocrite