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the 38% of the shares

 

aren't they pretty much worthless?

All shares are worthless

Not at all, they certainly have a decent inherent value.

 

I guess it depends on how much people want to pay for them.

 

Don't forget the Group owns other assets than the club, the hotel for instance.

 

38% would be a minority share holding in the group but the total business arms seems to have enough assets even now to cover its debts (it owns the stadium for instance).

 

I'm also sure that Anderson would get a much greater deal in selling the club on if he owned 95% of the shares than his current 57%.

 

I think they are far from worthless.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about have you?

i'd love a chat with these fcukers to see what their motives are

 

wankers

Would you like a driver?

A 5 iron should do it

 

Twats

You haven't a clue what you're talking about have you?

 

A tad more than you obviously.

 

The whole of the western world is based on capitalism (an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state) and of which investment and capitalisation through share ownership is an essential prerequisite.

 

​If Holdsworth shares in the 'group' are of no value then why is DH clinging on to them and KA so desperate to have them?  Why doesn't BM just liquidate SSBWFC and get on to claiming its secured assets on the club?

 

​Bowton baked - Bowton half-baked (and highly intoxicated) more likely.

A tad more than you obviously.

 

The whole of the western world is based on capitalism (an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state) and of which investment and capitalisation through share ownership is an essential prerequisite.

 

​If Holdsworth shares in the 'group' are of no value then why is DH clinging on to them and KA so desperate to have them? Why doesn't BM just liquidate SSBWFC and get on to claiming its secured assets on the club?

 

​Bowton baked - Bowton half-baked (and highly intoxicated) more likely.

Hehehe

 

I love folk like you, never seen a P&L in their lives & suddenly know the in & outs of running multi-million pound businesses.

 

& then you mock some of us that have built them from scratch, but you crack on sunshine!!

I bet you still think ED personally put £170m of his own money into BWFC! because a spreadsheet told you that? That's how naive you are.

I think there is no debate that he put tens of millions of his own cash in

 

It was the interest that took it to £170m. Was it right of him to expect 10% interest on that money? Well for many of the years in question he'd have got 5% in a high street bank account. An Isle of Man based millionaire would fancy there chances of getting more than 10% interest if he had invested that same money in a prudent manner

 

If he'd have put it into apple shares he'd have been a billionaire by now

 

DH has just took a loan out on the club at 24% for reference and these fuckers seem less likely to write it off

 

its all irrelevant as he didn't get it back anyway, one thing for sure though he would have been a much wealthier man had he let us to go to the wall back in the early 2000's and put his cash somewhere else

Edited July 15, 20178 yr by birch-chorley

I'm not convinced by that

I'm not convinced by that

Which bit

 

I think birch pretty much nails it

 

You're not suggesting ED made money from his involvement with BWFC, are you

Which bit

 

I think birch pretty much nails it

 

You're not suggesting ED made money from his involvement with BWFC, are you

I'm not convinced he lost a lot either.

What do you consider to be a lot

Anything more than the 15 million he wants back

I'd think it's safe to say he'd have been better off if he put his money in a high street bank account than he has with us

 

That makes it a lousy investment in real terms

I'd think it's safe to say he'd have been better off if he put his money in a high street bank account than he has with us

 

That makes it a lousy investment in real terms

I'm sure he had more fun doing it this way

Don't doubt it for a minute

 

In the same way I don't doubt his significant losses

I'd think it's safe to say he'd have been better off if he put his money in a high street bank account than he has with us

 

That makes it a lousy investment in real terms

No one knows

No one knows

If you went through all the accounts then you could see every penny he put in and took out. Bang it in a spreadsheet and we would know easily enough, I would like to see that actually, not that I've got the time to do it as it's a days work at least

 

My assumption is based on the fact he put something like £30m in at the start and sold it for £1 at the end

 

Everything else to one side, that's a big defecit to claw back over the years

He also bought Anelka

 

And before anybody mentions the success few, that was in the 170 million

Edited July 15, 20178 yr by Casino

If you went through all the accounts then you could see every penny he put in and took out. Bang it in a spreadsheet and we would know easily enough, I would like to see that actually, not that I've got the time to do it as it's a days work at least

 

My assumption is based on the fact he put something like £30m in at the start and sold it for £1 at the end

 

Everything else to one side, that's a big defecit to claw back over the years

I did it. It was around the time he sold - I can't be arsed finding it again because no matter how factual it is, you always get one or two that will never change their mind and just say shit like "accounts mean nothing anyway" or "you can make accounts look however you want".

 

From memory the final £170m was made up from about £145m actual loans, and £25m interest (that he was charging whilst we were in the big time, he soon stopped that as soon as we went down).

 

I'm not getting into it again, because for most people it's fucking boring, but the simple fact is that every year for about 8 or 9 years, from about 07/08 from memory, we lost money and if ED didn't cover those loses with his cash which is what is stated in the accounts, how did the business continue to run? It was effectively the situation that we are in now, more money was going out of the door than coming in, but now we have to beg borrow and steal from wherever we can, whereas back in them days ED was 'bankrolling' us.

 

I don't think he ever expected to get no returns for the club. Even if he sold for £50m, it would have cost him c.£100m to own his boyhood club for 10 years. It just so happened that the timing of it all meant that he never recovered any of his investment.

I recall that post now although I didn't remember the details

 

Of course it didn't end well and should have been handled a lot differently but they're is no denying for me that he did a lot for the club

 

I think history will view his time in charge more kindly than it is now

I recall that post now although I didn't remember the details

 

Of course it didn't end well and should have been handled a lot differently but they're is no denying for me that he did a lot for the club

 

I think history will view his time in charge more kindly than it is now

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/85355-the-great-big-debt-thread/page-4

I bet you still think ED personally put £170m of his own money into BWFC! because a spreadsheet told you that? That's how naive you are.

 

Seems there are plenty of other people naive like me on here too!

 

Fwiw I've run a multi-million pound business.

 

I didn't build it up from scratch though.

 

But then again I don't post half cut in the early hours of the morning acting like a great big numpty.

 

If what I've said in my posts above are incorrect then please feel free to enlighten me (and everyone else) with your vast knowledge of entrepreneurialism of what is the true position.

 

I'd rather be put right and learn something - I'm sure we all would.

 

Or are you going to simply carry on posting stuff like 'shares are shit', 'you know fuck all (even though you have completely no idea of who people are from Adam)', and act like a smug Billy big bollocks. 

 

Go on then, I challenge you to tell us ALL, with your infinite wisdom on shares and indefatigable knowledge of building multi-million pound businesses up from scratch , why Eddie's link to the thread above (post 73 of that link) - where he went through the clubs accounts (which had been independently audited by  Deloitte's) to breakdown Eddie Davies's financial investment into the club is (in your words) "naive".

 

We would all like no know where he went wrong - maybe you think he's never seen a P&L either?

 

Or is your head hurting after the night before?

Sorry but bowtun half baked made me chuckle

Go on then, I challenge you to tell us ALL, with your infinite wisdom on shares and indefatigable knowledge of building multi-million pound businesses up from scratch

?

Whenever I hear the word indefatigable I'm thinking George Galloway. Anyway fair play to Baked if his knowledge does not become tired?