It's happening. 

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17405193.bolton-wanderers-close-to-takeover-from-uk-based-consortium/

Thank fuck

19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Paying himself and his son bonuses, borrowing money of Eddie then lending it back to BWFC while taking the money back from factoring companies and leaving that debt on the books for the new owner , transfer fees not hitting BWFC accounts, failing to pay any suppliers on time or even at all, despite saying club was on way to breaking  even,  are not the actions of an owner that can be defended.

It’s very likely that Bassini has been brought in as an agent to sell the business under Anderson’s terms, that is to get a new buyer to cover the debts left on the books by Anderson’s unscrupulous behaviour and negotiate a golden goodbye for Anderson and his son.

Therefore I hope that any deal brokered by Bassini fails, I want a forensic audit done and any wrong doing brought into the public domain. If Anderson is found to have been acting in a correct and proper manner then fair play to him. Here’s hoping we get transparency on Anderson’s time at the club. 

 

Hi Mounts, just a point that a lot of the first  paragraph isn’t based on fact until the accounts are available. I’m not saying you are wrong or right but I disagree with the way you deliver it as concrete information. 

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We were losing money in 2016/17 you shouldn’t get a bonus while the business is losing money. It’s indefensible behaviour. 

However the amount losing between beginning and end was a lot less. Most clubs are losing money yet how many chairman do you think are working for free?

Gartside was taking nearly 600k a year whilst the club was losing over 10 milllion a year.

9 hours ago, Kane57 said:

I always got on with Gartside so no despising there. 

I think everyone deserves a second chance, don't you?

tbf I don't despise Ken either

That’s the spirit 

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

However the amount losing between beginning and end was a lot less. Most clubs are losing money yet how many chairman do you think are working for free?

Gartside was taking nearly 600k a year whilst the club was losing over 10 milllion a year.

The difference is Gartside worked for 10 -15 years for the love of BWFC, towards the end ED wanted him on board full time and decided to pay him that money so he could leave his other job. 

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

BN confirm that delay till 8th May is because that is when the court is next in session. So nothing to do with the EFL or any conspiracy. I assume it’s merely due to when Easter falls.

I'll take my Columbo mack of then..

13 minutes ago, Boothy said:

Hi Mounts, just a point that a lot of the first  paragraph isn’t based on fact until the accounts are available. I’m not saying you are wrong or right but I disagree with the way you deliver it as concrete information. 

That’s why I would like a proper audit so that claims made can be substantiated and why I said if Anderson has acted properly then fair play. My suspicions are aroused by Anderson seemingly using Bassini as broker for the sale of BWFC. 

Edited April 4, 20197 yr by Mounts Kipper

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The difference is Gartside worked for 10 -15 years for the love of BWFC, towards the end ED wanted him on board full time and decided to pay him that money so he could leave his other job. 

How does that make it right? If one is indefensible then so is the other. There’s no room for sentiment. 

KA obviously (and naively) thought at the end of 16/17 After slashing the outgoings and getting the club promoted that the sky was the limit. He was wrong, like many other chairmen in the lower leagues. It’s come back and bit him massively. But we all know why he came here (make a few quid) and we all know he said he could take the club as far as he wanted and it was for sale. Again as it’s obvious to see it’s not an attractive purchase.

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

It’s his responsibility to run the business. If the business has no money in its accounts  it’s his job to inform staff. It isn’t his job to pay them out of his own pocket.

Normally, yes. But a football club shouldn't be "just" a business. It's very different to a shop, a car dealership, a roofing company. Especially one with the history and status that we have. 

Anyone who buys a football club in the predicament we were in should have been prepared to put their own money in to pay staff and prevent that institution failing, if necessary. 

Edited April 4, 20197 yr by Jol_BWFC

Just now, Jol_BWFC said:

Normally, yes. But a football club shouldn't be "just" a business. It's very different to a shop, a car dealership, a roofing company. Especially one with the history and status that we have. 

Anyone who buys a football club in the predicament we were in should have been prepared to put their own money in to pay staff and prevent that institutional failing, if necessary. 

It’s not though is it. It’s just a business now that’s the way the game has gone. 

 

38 minutes ago, royal white said:

Ken paid himself a bonus at the end of the 16/17 season. And there’s no record of his son receiving a bonus. Did anyone not get paid or was paid late at the end of 16/17?

you can’t compare bonuses and wages from seasons gone by when everyone was paid on time in the said season. 

 

Yes.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/15383900.amp/

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

How does that make it right? If one is indefensible then so is the other. There’s no room for sentiment. 

KA obviously (and naively) thought at the end of 16/17 After slashing the outgoings and getting the club promoted that the sky was the limit. He was wrong, like many other chairmen in the lower leagues. It’s come back and bit him massively. But we all know why he came here (make a few quid) and we all know he said he could take the club as far as he wanted and it was for sale. Again as it’s obvious to see it’s not an attractive purchase.

This is a completely different scenario Eddie was happy with paying 600k to secure Gartsides services, don’t forget Eddie was also underwriting the losses.

If Anderson has turned the financial situation of the club round he’d have deserved a bonus, paying yourself one while running an insolvent business and failing to pay creditors, while receiving 14 million of transfer fees which he wouldn’t have included in his projections is failure of epic proportions. 

I’ll let others decide if ken’s bonus and running of BWFC is justified and to be defended.  I suspect you and sluffy will be in the minority. 

 

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

This is a completely different scenario Eddie was happy with paying 600k to secure Gartsides services, don’t forget Eddie was also underwriting the losses.

If Anderson has turned the financial situation of the club round he’d have deserved a bonus, paying yourself one while running an insolvent business and failing to pay creditors, while receiving 14 million of transfer fees which he wouldn’t have included in his projections is failure of epic proportions. 

I’ll let others decide if ken’s bonus and running of BWFC is justified and to be defended.  I suspect you and sluffy will be in the minority. 

 

At the end of 16/17 had he turned the financial position round?

Did we receive 14 million that’s season in transfer fees.

Were creditors not paid that same season (genuine question as I have no idea).

Where is the proof that his son received a bonus? 

Eddie, as much as everyone backs him left the club in a shambles and paying someone 600k a year because he loved the club didn’t help matters.

 

We  have learned quite a lot from Howard.

But if I had been legal advisor to the owner of BWFC, I cannot see that I would have been at all pleased about any party leaking privileged or commercially sensitive information to the detriment of my client, whether there was an NDA in place or not..

In the first instance it was claimed by H that £16m of secured debt included £8m owed by KA to Moonshift. This was a  mistake and after enquiry it was accepted that only £5m was secured, being the amount Moonshift lent to KA to pay off the Blumarble loan. This loan had been arranged by Dean Holdsworth (and possibly others) and had been due for repayment  two and a half years previously with default interest at c.24% which KA successfully avoided.

The other £3m was unsecured, seemingly being loans from ED/Moonshift to KA that had been used to pay liabilities of BWFC, probably mainly wages. So KA was left with the liability to repay this amount to Moonshift out of the proceeds of sale, if he could get anyone to pay it or out of his family's funds if he couldn't.

Leaving aside some unlikely speculations concerning Michael James and PBP,  there was then the further contention concerning the factoring of amounts due on player sales and from the EFL. The availability of this additional borrowing seems to have helped KA persuade the EFL to give BWFC more leeway than it otherwise might have done and to  that extent was to the benefit of the club. Inevitably there will be a resulting debt due to the factoring company and it seems appropriate for the cash to be ring-fenced outside of BWFC although some of it may have been used  last month to keep the club in business.

One might wonder how the March wages will get paid.

Edited April 4, 20197 yr by Chris Custodiet

1 hour ago, Biggish Dave said:

Pretty much where I’m at except the forensic audit would cost a fortune to do. I’d be more than happy for someone to come in, clear the debt and even give Anderson a bit of a pay off hoping never to hear his name again until it hits the obituaries

Would a normal audit do the job? 

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Would a normal audit do the job? 

They will have one of them anyway. Might well uncover 1 or 2 discrepancies which could be qualified on an audit report but wont go in depth enough to cover every transaction

33 minutes ago, royal white said:

At the end of 16/17 had he turned the financial position round?

No

Did we receive 14 million that’s season in transfer fees.

Some of that 14 million was in that season some just after.

Were creditors not paid that same season (genuine question as I have no idea).

the answer is mainly yes, think some settled for less. 

Where is the proof that his son received a bonus? 

Possibly covered by agents fees ( not mates rates I’d suggest) 

 

And while he paid himself a bonus he didn’t see fit to pay the manager and players their bonus at same time. 

Edited April 4, 20197 yr by Mounts Kipper

40 minutes ago, royal white said:

It’s not though is it. It’s just a business now that’s the way the game has gone. 

 

It is different. Football clubs are not comparable to other businesses e.g. retail or manufacturing. For some owners it's a business opportunity (particularly in the top couple of leagues), but for others it's a trophy asset (e.g. Chelsea) or a love of the club (Stoke, Boro). 

Unfortunately though, it does seem that more and more owners are coming in and looking at it as just a business and nothing more. 

48 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

Normally, yes. But a football club shouldn't be "just" a business. It's very different to a shop, a car dealership, a roofing company. Especially one with the history and status that we have. 

Anyone who buys a football club in the predicament we were in should have been prepared to put their own money in to pay staff and prevent that institutional failing, if necessary. 

It's a good job football clubs aren't looked on as " business " because if the criteria was only profit making clubs existed then there wouldn't be many around.

Deep down we all know the current situation with 92 league clubs cant continue...be interesting to fast forward 10 years and see who is still in " business ".

3 minutes ago, Rubberkex said:

It's a good job football clubs aren't looked on as " business " because if the criteria was only profit making clubs existed then there wouldn't be many around.

Deep down we all know the current situation with 92 league clubs cant continue...be interesting to fast forward 10 years and see who is still in " business ".

Yes i agree, a largish club is going to go bust soon - closely followed by others.

Just hope we aren't one of them

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 

So were the outgoings of 16/17 not considerably less than the season before? 

So not 14 million then, in fact no where near that figure.

The creditors that weren’t paid at the end of 16/17 who were they and were they a result of Ken’s Mis management.

lee Anderson’s bonus? 

If Eddie ran the business better than ken then why did no respectable business man come up with an offer of more than a quid to snap it up. Yet there’s (potentially) a few buyers willing to pay a hell of a lot more than a quid at the minute.

5 minutes ago, Rubberkex said:

It's a good job football clubs aren't looked on as " business " because if the criteria was only profit making clubs existed then there wouldn't be many around.

Deep down we all know the current situation with 92 league clubs cant continue...be interesting to fast forward 10 years and see who is still in " business ".

We’re here for a month at least. 

10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 

And while he paid himself a bonus he didn’t see fit to pay the manager and players their bonus at same time. 

How much sooner was he paid than the managers and players? 

 

Just now, royal white said:

The creditors that weren’t paid at the end of 16/17 who were they and were they a result of Ken’s Mis management.

lee Anderson’s bonus? 

If Eddie ran the business better than ken then why did no respectable business man come up with an offer of more than a quid to snap it up. Yet there’s (potentially) a few buyers willing to pay a hell of a lot more than a quid at the minute.

Perhaps Eddie writing of 180 million has helped Kenneth, plus high earning contracts having ended. 

35 minutes ago, royal white said:

 

Where is the proof that his son received a bonus? 

 

There isn't any, the nearest thing to suggest he was paid was this from the accounts 

"During the year the company paid £125,000 to Athos Group in respect of consultancy services. Athos Group is owned by a family member of K Anderson"

The accounts also state KA received a fee which he denied then later confirmed and that it also included bonuses

Make of that what you will

7 minutes ago, royal white said:

How much sooner was he paid than the managers and players? 

Parkinson was complaining this season he’d still not been paid. 

Edited April 4, 20197 yr by Mounts Kipper