July 25, 20242 yr 2 minutes ago, Cheese said: I understand why you'd rather word it in a way that sounds less offensive. Many don't. Well it's far cry from too many brown people, which was your initial assumption. You're just not capable of a proper conversation.
July 25, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Well it's far cry from too many brown people, which was your initial assumption. You're just not capable of a proper conversation. You didn't challenge my assumption, you just said you preferred a different term. 🤷♂️ Who are the people that are 'threatening our liberal society'?
July 25, 20242 yr Aren't we supposed to be living in a multicultural democracy? And isn't that the point? You know, the Jews, the Muslims and the racists all living together happily side by side, doing and saying whatever the hell they like?
July 25, 20242 yr 8 minutes ago, Cheese said: You didn't challenge my assumption, you just said you preferred a different term. 🤷♂️ Who are the people that are 'threatening our liberal society'? My point was that maybe folk are less tolerant because there are more issues in today's society to less tolerant about. A yearly increase of the Muslim population and the cultural differences and issues that creates would cause that to be the case no? Whether you like it or not, a growing Muslim population will cause problems. We've been through them a million times on here. Mixing one culture with another so quickly is a recipe for disaster.
July 25, 20242 yr 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: My point was that maybe folk are less tolerant because there are more issues in today's society to less tolerant about. A yearly increase of the Muslim population and the cultural differences and issues that creates would cause that to be the case no? Whether you like it or not, a growing Muslim population will cause problems. We've been through them a million times on here. Mixing one culture with another so quickly is a recipe for disaster. That's just your opinion, and obviously one that's shared by many. It sounds like you don't want to live in the "liberal society" you feel is at threat.
July 25, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, Cheese said: That's just your opinion, and obviously one that's shared by many. It sounds like you don't want to live in the "liberal society" you feel is at threat. In fairness many of the most conservative right wing social values come from parts (not all) of the Muslim community.
July 25, 20242 yr 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: In fairness many of the most conservative right wing social values come from parts (not all) of the Muslim community. Two cheeks of the same arse.
July 25, 20242 yr 15 minutes ago, Cheese said: That's just your opinion, and obviously one that's shared by many. It sounds like you don't want to live in the "liberal society" you feel is at threat. Is it? You don't think those issues are there? You don't think Muslim values hold a threat to our liberal ways even in the slightest? Given their views on homosexualty and women etc? Are you happy with an ever increasing Muslim population then?
July 25, 20242 yr I don't know why folk are having a bit of a back and forth about this as both positions can exisit and be true. We can be a more progressive society than 40 years ago and hate crimes and racial intolerance can also be on the rise. Off the back of the economic crash, a pandemic, a cost of living crisis and the erosion of more traditional jobs for those without higher qualifications, like a lot of western democracies a lot of people in this country are struggling and have been for a while. Young, white working class men are particularly being hard hit as they see the security of employment in their local areas in skilled professions that had on the job training wane, so have to take roles in service industries which is more demeaning than a role in society that had real value and being also being priced out of home ownership that their fathers and grandfather's enjoyed being denied them. Basically life hasn't got better. This has facilitated both the rise of Isolationist Populism in politics (the reason you don't have the job/respect/status you want is because of immigrants/the established political class) and others who have weaponised these concerns for their own gain by using the reach social media platforms can give them (the rise in not only racism but also misogyny - or any 'other' sexuality or skin colour see the pantheon of online grifters from Tommy Robinson to Andrew Tate) But whilst populism has gained traction, racism or misogyny isn't as fundementally embedded at all levels of societal structures. No way would you have a goverrnment passing a bill like Section 28 now, the rise of a greater diversity of political representatives that wouldn't have been thinkable, mixed race couples don't face the barriers they once did - hell people of the same sex can get married - it was only in 2005 that same sex couples could adopt children. So, both positions are right and valid - the real question should be how can we tackle this rise - people like Robinson and Tate thrive when people don't feel heard, their pride is shot and their economy is fragile.
July 25, 20242 yr 11 minutes ago, Cheese said: Two cheeks of the same arse. Absolute bullshit. I hate the Muslim core values because of everything I've said above. People should be allowed to be what they want to be. We should be liberal welcoming nation for all. LGTQ+, equal opportunity for women and our children. Free to wear and dress how we like. That totally goes against the grain of Islam you hypocritical pillock.
July 25, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Absolute bullshit. I hate the Muslim core values because of everything I've said above. People should be allowed to be what they want to be. We should be liberal welcoming nation for all. LGTQ+, equal opportunity for women and our children. Free to wear and dress how we like. That totally goes against the grain of Islam you hypocritical pillock. "People should be allowed to be what they want to be (apart from Muslims)". 🤦♂️ If you hate Muslim values, don't be a fucking Muslim. It's not difficult. Do you feel the same resentment towards Hasidic Jews because they wear different clothes and have different values to you? Or is it a numbers game?
July 25, 20242 yr Been learning today that a lot of the Islamic dress isn't actually required by the "book" but is largely a creation of the Arabs. Hence in other parts of the world, they're much more liberal.
July 25, 20242 yr Yes, clearly the threat from Hasidic Jews is on a par with the threat posed by Islamism
July 25, 20242 yr 11 minutes ago, gonzo said: Is it? You don't think those issues are there? You don't think Muslim values hold a threat to our liberal ways even in the slightest? Given their views on homosexualty and women etc? Are you happy with an ever increasing Muslim population then? This is the essence of the problem. Whilst it's become essentially socially unacceptable to openly discuss these issues, politicians etc will never address the elephant in the room. And so it gets worse. Until the Haslam Park hits the fan.
July 25, 20242 yr 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Been learning today that a lot of the Islamic dress isn't actually required by the "book" but is largely a creation of the Arabs. Hence in other parts of the world, they're much more liberal. Culture is a big factor
July 25, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: Culture is a big factor Aye. Culture and religion are bed fellows. One arguably sets the other- chicken and egg.
July 25, 20242 yr 13 minutes ago, Cheese said: "People should be allowed to be what they want to be (apart from Muslims)". 🤦♂️ If you hate Muslim values, don't be a fucking Muslim. It's not difficult. Do you feel the same resentment towards Hasidic Jews because they wear different clothes and have different values to you? Or is it a numbers game? How do Muslims feel about Hasidic Jews? Them you need to ask 🫡
July 25, 20242 yr 12 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: Yes, clearly the threat from Hasidic Jews is on a par with the threat posed by Islamism Aye must have missed those protests outside Comp schools about teaching LGBTQ. Or Terrorist Attacks. Or them splashing shitty poo water all over the gaff and driving like cunts
July 25, 20242 yr 2 minutes ago, gonzo said: How do Muslims feel about Hasidic Jews? Them you need to ask 🫡 And you accuse me of not being able to have a proper conversation! All you do is re-word everything I say so you don't come across as a racist. 😁
July 25, 20242 yr 16 minutes ago, Cheese said: "People should be allowed to be what they want to be (apart from Muslims)". 🤦♂️ If you hate Muslim values, don't be a fucking Muslim. It's not difficult. Do you feel the same resentment towards Hasidic Jews because they wear different clothes and have different values to you? Or is it a numbers game? Hardcore Islam will never ever integrate with an open and tolerant society. You can argue all you like but you know I'm right. Yet again, it's fucking religion that's at the root of this A lad gets a kicking - right or wrong, we'll know in due course - but becuase he's a muslim, the more hardcore muslims jump all over it and immediately turn it into a racist/anti-muslim issue. Which it isn't. The truth is that a lot of muslim culture despises the decadence and liberal attitudes of non-muslims. It's a religion that also has a much firmer grip on it's followers than christianity. You can call me anything you like on this, I genuinely don't give a fuck, but the problems that religion causes far outweigh the benefits it brings. Our liberal, welcoming approach is biting us. But you keep your blinkers on if it makes you happy.
July 25, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, gonzo said: How do Muslims feel about Hasidic Jews? Them you need to ask 🫡 I know loads of more liberal Jewish people who aren't fans of Hasidic Jews. Anyway what tenets of Islam that you don't like - I mean the Quran states that men and women are equal before god - its certain sects and teachings that corrupt this and are largely more political in basis. I mean look at a country like Iran before the revolution. Yes there was tention between traditionalists and those more open to liberal ways - but after the overthrow of the Pahlavi monachy (who were actively promoting their 'white revolution' which was a programme of modernisation which took power and money wawy from the religious leaders) so when the Mullahs (also backed by landowners who didn't like their power being questioned and also supported those who were against the programme of western intervention in the country ie the parliment that had been suspended) took over they imposed a much stricter version of their specific religious reading to pretty much keep them in power and supress dissent. That's more political than religious.
July 25, 20242 yr 10 minutes ago, Spider said: Hardcore Islam will never ever integrate with an open and tolerant society. You can argue all you like but you know I'm right. Yet again, it's fucking religion that's at the root of this A lad gets a kicking - right or wrong, we'll know in due course - but becuase he's a muslim, the more hardcore muslims jump all over it and immediately turn it into a racist/anti-muslim issue. Which it isn't. The truth is that a lot of muslim culture despises the decadence and liberal attitudes of non-muslims. It's a religion that also has a much firmer grip on it's followers than christianity. You can call me anything you like on this, I genuinely don't give a fuck, but the problems that religion causes far outweigh the benefits it brings. Our liberal, welcoming approach is biting us. But you keep your blinkers on if it makes you happy. Remind me again what you're doing about this? You're as bad as the people you mock on twitter who are scared of clouds. Edited July 25, 20242 yr by Cheese
July 25, 20242 yr 5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: I know loads of more liberal Jewish people who aren't fans of Hasidic Jews. Anyway what tenets of Islam that you don't like - I mean the Quran states that men and women are equal before god - its certain sects and teachings that corrupt this and are largely more political in basis. I mean look at a country like Iran before the revolution. Yes there was tention between traditionalists and those more open to liberal ways - but after the overthrow of the Pahlavi monachy (who were actively promoting their 'white revolution' which was a programme of modernisation which took power and money wawy from the religious leaders) so when the Mullahs (also backed by landowners who didn't like their power being questioned and also supported those who were against the programme of western intervention in the country ie the parliment that had been suspended) took over they imposed a much stricter version of their specific religious reading to pretty much keep them in power and supress dissent. That's more political than religious. That's before we get on to sunny and shite.
July 25, 20242 yr 2 minutes ago, gonzo said: That's before we get on to sunny and shite. I guess what I'm getting at is that a lot of these religious problems aren't anything of the sort and that this 'stone-age' thing has a lot to do with global politics rather than innately religious in basis.
July 25, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said: Yeah and there is a classic example of treating people poorly because you think you can. It’s a hugely complex issue and I do think women should have their own spaces. Equally though people who have transitioned are still people and deserve some basic decency until they prove otherwise just like everyone else. You are clearly not a father. Be who you want to be but using a women's changing room when you've got a meat and two veg is criminal. You defending that speaks volumes about who you are.
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