Normalisation

[madthatter]

Didn't know quite where to put this as it touches on a few current threads' themes.

 

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170314-how-do-we-determine-when-a-behaviour-is-normal

 

Interesting article about how things that perhaps shouldn't be can become normal with exposure or vice versa. (Links to A Curtis' Hyper-normalisation for Zico and others)

 

I find this kind of stuff fascinating but it goes to show that you can use propaganda or social discourse to create and foster peace, love etc or hatred, division and so on.

 

When put alongside Trump, Islam, terrorism etc as some topical e.g.s I think it's fair to say that it really wouldn't take much to massively shift common views and perceptions.

 

I said on another thread that views of Islam/terrorists could definitely benefit from more positive exposure.  Is it simply that negativity sells or is there a darker agenda at play here?  I'm honestly not sure; possibly a bit of both?

 

On a more philosophical note though it begs a question I've often pondered.  What is normal?

 

Can any/all human behaviour, however distasteful, be considered normal?  Who determines abnormal?

Edited March 26, 2017 by madthatter

[bgoefc]

Didn't know quite where to put this as it touches on a few current threads' themes.

 

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170314-how-do-we-determine-when-a-behaviour-is-normal

 

Interesting article about how things that perhaps shouldn't be can become normal with exposure or vice versa. (Links to A Curtis' Hyper-normalisation for Zico and others)

 

I find this kind of stuff fascinating but it goes to show that you can use propaganda or social discourse to create and foster peace, love etc or hatred, division and so on.

 

When put alongside Trump, Islam, terrorism etc as some topical e.g.s I think it's fair to say that it really wouldn't take much to massively shift common views and perceptions.

 

I said on another thread that views of Islam/terrorists could definitely benefit from more positive exposure.  Is it simply that negativity sells or is there a darker agenda at play here?  I'm honestly not sure; possibly a bit of both?

 

On a more philosophical note though it begs a question I've often pondered.  What is normal?

 

Can any/all human behaviour, however distasteful, be considered normal?  Who determines abnormal?

 

Really?

[madthatter]

Really?

 

Aye.  Said on other thread, I think Islam generally has some issues with integration.  I stand by that.

 

Above though I mean the good Muslim folk (which is the majority) whose name gets dragged through the mud, not the terrorists they get linked with.

 

If you want to move forward and reduce conflict etc part of that has to be promoting a more positive image of Islam - then it becomes the 'norm' as opposed to suspecting everyone with a beard and a bag is about to bomb you  

 

But it's more complex than that.  If, in the west, Islam is started to be seen as less hostile then it may also affect the image within the Muslim community of the west.  Possibly reducing those who wish to bring it down?   

 

Anyways, what really grabbed me was the aspect about human behaviour, thought and perception being so easily manipulated.  Powerful if used in the right way, devastating if used cynically.

 

But again, what's normal, right?  

[bgoefc]

So if we start to normalise burka wearing women and girls walking  yards behind their males, sharia law over uk law, honour killings, child brides and all the other good stuff they want then things will get better? Aye alreet!

[Guest]

What we might consider normal; free speech, democracy, civil rights, doesn't mean it is normal for muslims.

 

For instance, islam says there's only one God. This doesn't leave room for other ways.

[madthatter]

So if we start to normalise burka wearing women and girls walking  yards behind their males, sharia law over uk law, honour killings, child brides and all the other good stuff they want then things will get better? Aye alreet!

 

Not exactly my point but anything can be normalised, yes.  However, Muslims must play their part and part of that is respecting other faiths, cultures etc.  Many do though but it gets a disproportionate amount of attention.

 

They also need to understand what democracy is and respect it . . . still, if the majority of Brits wanted it then could you argue against it?

 

 

What we might consider normal; free speech, democracy, civil rights, doesn't mean it is normal for muslims.

 

For instance, islam says there's only one God. This doesn't leave room for other ways.

 

See above.  You're right, and I've stated elsewhere that Islam, generally, needs to open up.  If it can't then for me, religion or not, it needs to be stopped a la the Nazi ideology.

 

It's a minority though, thankfully.  That needs to be played to the world on a loud speaker on a loop (or shouted at 5 am from a turret )

 

Thing is, imagine it's Christians doing all the bombings etc.  You're a Christian.  You deplore their actions but all others treat you as if you dropped the bombs.  How is that going to affect your feelings after a month, year, 5,10 etc?

[madthatter]

What we might consider normal; free speech, democracy, civil rights, doesn't mean it is normal for muslims.

 

For instance, islam says there's only one God. This doesn't leave room for other ways.

 

So does Christianity.  It also says love thy neighbour and not to judge others.

 

I think the Qur'an has a similar message . . .

 

How some mentally challenged choose to interpret it is up to them.  No Muslim has ever stopped me from my beliefs and many I've met have praised me for being interested in spiritual (for desperate want of a better word) matters.

[MalcolmW]

New book out later this week:

"The Enemy Within: A Tale of Muslim Britain" by (Baroness) Sayeeda Warsi, published by Allen Lane (£20).

[madthatter]

New book out later this week:

"The Enemy Within: A Tale of Muslim Britain" by (Baroness) Sayeeda Warsi, published by Allen Lane (£20).

 

https://membership.theguardian.com/event/the-enemy-within-a-tale-of-muslim-britain-with-sayeeda-warsi-31218536483

 

Tried to find a review but only this.  Be interested to hear her take on the counter terrorism strategy's efficacy and effect on Muslim communities.

 

 'While she initially supported Britain’s exit from the European Union, she changed sides just days before the referendum, referring to the “hate and xenophobia” of the Leave campaign.'

 

Second thoughts, she sounds a bit bed wetty  

[kent_white]

I just went to buy my apples from Al Noor on Halliwell Rd. Had a chat with the bloke about the weather them nipped up the road for some bread and coffee. Had to pass a big gang of Asian lads all stood on the pavement admiring some (admittedly chav looking) sports car, one of whom said 'sorry mate' for getting in my way. The other shop didn't have any wholemeal bread but it did have a good offer on coffee. £5.84 with 50% extra free. When the bloke ran in through the till in came up at £5.54 - but he said not to worry about it and let me off the 30p. I had to go to the Co-op for bread where an equally pleasant white lad served me and didn't charge me for a bag.

 

Now maybe it's because I live in an area with a high Muslim population - but these are my day to day experiences of living alongside Muslims. I just don't see the tension that others seem to think is so prevalent.

 

I think normalisation comes from actually interacting and making up your own mind what people are like as opposed to living in a bubble and making assumptions.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Quite like house of raja. Friendly and helpful.

Went to one on crescent road once and bloke was miserable and weird.

Once went to that market on canon street. Bloke looked at us like we were shit and couldn't be more unhelpful- tosser.

 

Not sure what this means; there's some cunts out there and some good uns I suppose.

Anyway, still like a curry and if I need Oriental ingredients I will still visit.

[no balls]

I've noticed the media is trying to normalise women covering their hair with hijabs by shoving these women on adverts. It's not normal, it's backward thinking.

Off my soapbox now, it's too nice a day to worry about shit like that.

[little whitt]

done work for a few Rayguns  this year

 

one lad teacher at a Raygun girls school  ...if you want a brew mate just make yourself one I'm in and out all day your cash is there if I'm not back....he  was in and out all day had bits of chats sound as a pound nice lad

 

 

one last week I popped round on the of chance ( sent a few text told him I will call when passing )

 

o you cant just come when you want ...

 

I'm here now take me 5/10 mins do you want me call back ...no do it now

 

walked in he starts ranting and tanting  I stood on his prayer mat ...I said sorry thought it was a rug in front of fire ( one bed shit flat)

 

goes in bathroom to touch wall up he on phone too office calling me

 

I said don't talk about me like that to no one do you want a smack you Raygun savage

 

anyway is there not a Hotline you can call he looked a wrong-un

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Quality story!

[Farrelli]

Is there an English translation available?

[frank_spencer]

I've noticed the media is trying to normalise women covering their hair with hijabs by shoving these women on adverts. It's not normal, it's backward thinking.

Off my soapbox now, it's too nice a day to worry about shit like that.

For me if a woman WANTS to and isnt being forced into it then she can crack on.

 

Lots of muslamic wimmin are going for a hijab with western fashion clothing. There's a young lass round the corner from me who has a hijab on yet it always decked out in various colours of the adidas Originals tracksuit.

 

For me that kind of thing should be the way forward. If their faith leads them to think that covering their hair is needed but they want to be able to to do everything our secular culture allows then more power to their elbow.

[no balls]

For me if a woman WANTS to and isnt being forced into it then she can crack on.

 

Lots of muslamic wimmin are going for a hijab with western fashion clothing. There's a young lass round the corner from me who has a hijab on yet it always decked out in various colours of the adidas Originals tracksuit.

 

For me that kind of thing should be the way forward. If their faith leads them to think that covering their hair is needed but they want to be able to to do everything our secular culture allows then more power to their elbow.

If they want to then yes of course they can crack on. It doesn't make normal behaviour in the western world though. Edited March 26, 2017 by no balls