WTF is all that about?

Soft cunts!

13 hours ago, Traf said:

Not one of his players did their job, not one.

This just isn't true.

They all did exactly the same job they've done in every single game this season, that's the problem, it's too predictable and too easy to nullify us. 

When you play such a rigid and trigger based system that relies so heavily on one lone playmaking option at the base of midfield, as we do, then you're liable to be shut down quite effectively and that's been proven multiple times across the season. 

The fact that, not only opposition managers but, I and other fans can diagnose that but our own manager can't and subsequently come up with varying systems or even just slight subtle changes to the initial phase of our build up play is incredibly worrying. 

For example, you could have completely rendered their defensive set up useless if you pushed Sheehan into a more advanced position and had Thomason and Maghoma come and collect the ball and carry it into midfield rather than have Santos wait for a trigger press that was never coming for 60 minutes. Or, you could have moved the ball directly to the wingbacks (that were in acres) from the centre halves and then worked in from there. 

The changes were painfully obvious and simple tweaks but he either can't or won't make them and clearly they don't work on them in training so the players know the options if things aren't going our way early in games.

The nail in the coffin for me was we came out second half just doing the same shite and then when he finally does change things (On exactly 65 minutes, obviously.), it's to bring Cameron Jerome on and go for a half hearted long-ball approach that we're just not built for. 

Evatt's issue to me is he thinks he's smarter than everyone, but it's becoming painfully obvious that he's a bit of a one trick pony. 

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

Spot on.

My issue with Santos standing on the ball isn't aimed so much as at Santos, but on the manager.

It's clear in some games that the players, and Santos in particular, simply don't know what to do when our gameplan has been sussed ... and that lies squarely at the feet of the manager.

You'd have thought that they'd have training sessions where they play out this scenario, but from what we've all witnessed in some games it would appear not.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Disagree pal.

I want to see him take the pitch in August, fit, ready and raring to go to get promotion. 

Not interested in social media platitudes, means nothing 

Defo want what’s best. Who apologies or not means little for me. If all is good he’s in for me. If not maybe a change.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

I thought this Saturday. I was more angry with Sheehan for going missing and not showing any initiative or guile to get involved

It isn't just Sheehan and it's a bit galling that everytime we get stifled, he gets blamed.

If they stick a player on him all game, then it's down to others around him to show for the ball to then drag their markers out of position etc. Sheehan being manmarked by a bigger, more physical player isn't the only reason we lose these games.

For me it's about tempo, move the ball quicker, drag their players out of position, one touch football etc. Nobody in that league can live with us when we do. The Ashworth goal at home on Collins' debut, the Charles goal at Barnsley in the play-offs etc.

It's one of the first things you learn as a footballer, pass and move. 

15 minutes ago, Traf said:

It isn't just Sheehan and it's a bit galling that everytime we get stifled, he gets blamed.

If they stick a player on him all game, then it's down to others around him to show for the ball to then drag their markers out of position etc. Sheehan being manmarked by a bigger, more physical player isn't the only reason we lose these games.

For me it's about tempo, move the ball quicker, drag their players out of position, one touch football etc. Nobody in that league can live with us when we do. The Ashworth goal at home on Collins' debut, the Charles goal at Barnsley in the play-offs etc.

It's one of the first things you learn as a footballer, pass and move. 

Good point mate.

And it’s unusual for me to pick out an individual and I’m far from a scapegoater (not that I’m insinuating you are labelling me as this!😊) And I certainly don’t lay the blame just at his door.

Nobody came out of that shambles with any credit. And you are right others around him definitely should have stepped up when they realised Sheehan was being nullified.

I was just really frustrated with him, as I consider him a great player at this level, a player with intelligence, craft, our key playmaker. I just wanted him to find the answers to what Oxford were doing to nullify him and he (and all the others around him) just weren’t able to do that on the day.

 

When Sheehan is heavily marked, it's also incumbent on him to move, make runs into different, unusual positions to make space elsewhere. Then for others to use that space.

We all know Evatt has set patterns, but it's also for all players to think for themselves and manage the game on the pitch.

If they tried to more often, and got bollocked/dropped then it would be entirely down to the coaches/gaffer.

As it is, Evatt has said on several occasions it's up to players on the pitch to find solutions, but at times they won't try/can't. 

Whether that is due to a lack of ability in some areas, or fear of not following the "style" who knows, but clearly something, somewhere needs putting right.

Probably requires improvement in all departments. 

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Most frustrating thing is that when he's bang up for it he's imperious. 

Pompey home, Barnsley away he was fucking brilliant.

But for everyone of them there's a Barnsley at home or Pompey away.

Suppose he wouldn't be playing for Barnet and Bolton if it was any different.

Toal and Jones get away with murder btw. Granted Toal is on his wrong side, he's had some shockers this season and gets turned inside and out. The Barnsley goals away and home were from him losing his man or getting turned.

Jones is a better WB for me.

 

This for me but hopefully with Johnson back next season it will sort that left side. I also agree that Jones at RWB is our best solution. JDC just doesn’t get the ball into the right areas when crossing. I also rate Forrester and would like to see more of him next year. Rico hasn’t been properly fit for months but when he is he’s unarguably our best CH though has to move the ball forward quicker, no stopping and standing next season.

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Also regarding Santos he often carried the ball out from the back earlier in his Bolton career this created and overload and that would have upset Oxford plan last week by creating overloads and messing up oxfords man marking, he needs to bring that option back into his game. 

He did Mounts, lots of times, but on Saturday when we needed him to step up and take charge he did exactly the opposite and stood like a little lad lost. Absolutely lost.

Oxford must have been wondering where we were on Saturday thinking they will switch on in a bit, but we didn’t. We couldn’t even find the switch.

1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

This for me but hopefully with Johnson back next season it will sort that left side. I also agree that Jones at RWB is our best solution. JDC just doesn’t get the ball into the right areas when crossing. I also rate Forrester and would like to see more of him next year. Rico hasn’t been properly fit for months but when he is he’s unarguably our best CH though has to move the ball forward quicker, no stopping and standing next season.

You just know the fans reaction the first time he does it

 

2 hours ago, Traf said:

It isn't just Sheehan and it's a bit galling that everytime we get stifled, he gets blamed.

If they stick a player on him all game, then it's down to others around him to show for the ball to then drag their markers out of position etc. Sheehan being manmarked by a bigger, more physical player isn't the only reason we lose these games.

For me it's about tempo, move the ball quicker, drag their players out of position, one touch football etc. Nobody in that league can live with us when we do. The Ashworth goal at home on Collins' debut, the Charles goal at Barnsley in the play-offs etc.

It's one of the first things you learn as a footballer, pass and move. 

You've got to hold and give
But do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast
But you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
There's only one way to beat them
Get 'round the back

Boro will always be the biggest disappointment for me. It might be next year, it might be in five years but eventually we'll get out of League One. We were never going to win the final even if we'd beat Villa or Stoke. But we had a better team than Boro. And the way football is now it's entirely likely that we'll never win a major cup competition again.

Oxford is right up there though. I'm obviously not jacking in my season ticket, but I've no enthusiasm for next season at all. I think it's going to be really tough and the hangover from Wembley will drown us. Cheery stuff.

3 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

This for me but hopefully with Johnson back next season it will sort that left side. I also agree that Jones at RWB is our best solution. JDC just doesn’t get the ball into the right areas when crossing. I also rate Forrester and would like to see more of him next year. Rico hasn’t been properly fit for months but when he is he’s unarguably our best CH though has to move the ball forward quicker, no stopping and standing next season.

Agreed on Jones at RWB although I think he's looked a bit below par recently/not as fit or quick as usual.  Forrester has little chance assuming we keep Johnstone, Toal, Santos and Jones not to mention Iredale.

On Santos, we have to take the rough with the smooth, with any player.  That's how Santos plays, he's not a kid, he's not going to change and that's not a criticism, but we judge players based on what they do for us, not what they might do in future in a fantasy world where we are stood on the training pitch telling them how to play! (that's not a dig at you, we all do it in terms of wishing a player would just do something difference, like Sheehan or Tomo letting fly from 30 yards, accurately and with pace.  Its not their game, either by design or lack of ability).  

Folk are saying keep IE - if he changes 😀 - keep players, if they change - they don't, they are what they are.

On 23/05/2024 at 15:29, Johnnyrotten said:

Agreed on Jones at RWB although I think he's looked a bit below par recently/not as fit or quick as usual.  Forrester has little chance assuming we keep Johnstone, Toal, Santos and Jones not to mention Iredale.

On Santos, we have to take the rough with the smooth, with any player.  That's how Santos plays, he's not a kid, he's not going to change and that's not a criticism, but we judge players based on what they do for us, not what they might do in future in a fantasy world where we are stood on the training pitch telling them how to play! (that's not a dig at you, we all do it in terms of wishing a player would just do something difference, like Sheehan or Tomo letting fly from 30 yards, accurately and with pace.  Its not their game, either by design or lack of ability).  

Folk are saying keep IE - if he changes 😀 - keep players, if they change - they don't, they are what they are.

Yes JR leopards don’t change spots but to be fair life is a learning process and players do learn if they’re to improve so there’s no reason Rico can’t too. If you ever believe you’re the finished article, especially in L1, then you’re going nowhere so I hope Rico realises that? Evatt too is still very much on a learning curve as manager so will also hopefully see that and accept he must make certain changes. Character I agree can’t be changed but beliefs can so I’m just hoping that both can see and accept that and adapt accordingly? 🙂

I've not been Santos' biggest fan, but I admit he has more decent games than bad ones.  This thread is about the whole team at Wembey not just Santos. That picture just summed up everything about us that day. I'm sure there's similar picture after Papa Johns day but happier.

It's certainly not a case for chucking STs back.