WTF is all that about?

Soft cunts!

Just now, DazBob said:

All true ...

... But Saturday wasn't the first time an opposing manager has completely nullified us. That fat cunt at Stevenage did exactly the same not too long ago which resulted in Santos standing on the ball for the majority of the game.

I can only see it happening more and more next season too if he remains.

The question is should the players have upped the tempo to avoid being nullified?

Our game plan beats your game plan etc

He wad hardly going to rip the manual up and go 4-4-2 after 10 mins.

You knew after 2 minutes which Bolton we were getting. How much of that can be labelled at the manager I dont know.

....his changes at the end were desperate and I'm sure he'd lost his mind by then. Those late in game substitutions are my biggest concern regards him.

 

35 minutes ago, Traf said:

Now the dust/red mist has settled and I'm able to take a calmer look back, here's where I'm at.

Evatt prepped the team for the game in probably the same way as he has done for largely-successful season.
Not one of his players did their job, not one.
We can look at Evatt all we want and boy, has he got his faults, but I'm not sure last Saturday is (all) on him.
He sent the players out to play who have played for him regularly and have tended to get the job done.
He didn't play Elmander in centre-midfield, he didn't drop Kevin Davies to give Rob Hall a game etc etc
He went 'tried & tested' and whatever your thoughts are about Ian Evatt, it was the players who ultimately let him, us, themselves and the club down.

When I got home on Saturday night, I said to my wife (she's not a football fan , never will be , not interested , "you think more of Bolton than me" .... ) , "we were rubbish , players were rubbish , managers fault  .... she stopped me ...."how can it be the managers fault that the players were rubbish, the manager can't pass the ball from player 1 to player 2, he can't make them pass faster , run faster , they are on the pitch , they are the one's who score or let goals in, not him. There's a glass of red waiting for you in the kitchen" ..... which backs up what you say Traf, players take responsibility for playing poorly .... 

For next season , forwards are OK , Defenders are OK , midfield is weak , poor , needs a big change, we need an enforcer , someone who can run at defenders with the ball ...similar to Peter Reid , Jason McAteer ... defenders hate runners from midfield , runners with pace. I don't think any of the retained midfield players are good enough for a promotion team !

 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Traf said:

Now the dust/red mist has settled and I'm able to take a calmer look back, here's where I'm at.

Evatt prepped the team for the game in probably the same way as he has done for largely-successful season.
Not one of his players did their job, not one.
We can look at Evatt all we want and boy, has he got his faults, but I'm not sure last Saturday is (all) on him.
He sent the players out to play who have played for him regularly and have tended to get the job done.
He didn't play Elmander in centre-midfield, he didn't drop Kevin Davies to give Rob Hall a game etc etc
He went 'tried & tested' and whatever your thoughts are about Ian Evatt, it was the players who ultimately let him, us, themselves and the club down.

A largely successful season against most teams definitely.  A very unsuccessful season in the big league games, the one's that really test a manager's abilities.  The players haven't tended to get the job done in previous big games, Barnsley away aside, why would this be any different realistically? (other than we hoped we were playing the same Oxford that we'd thrashed a couple of months ago).

He prepared the team exactly the same, more "tried and failed" than "tried and tested" (sounds harsher than its meant to); so the opposition knew exactly what he would do.  And yes the players underperformed too, everyone was to blame.

38 minutes ago, Nottm_Wanderer said:

When I got home on Saturday night, I said to my wife (she's not a football fan , never will be , not interested , "you think more of Bolton than me" .... ) , "we were rubbish , players were rubbish , managers fault  .... she stopped me ...."how can it be the managers fault that the players were rubbish, the manager can't pass the ball from player 1 to player 2, he can't make them pass faster , run faster , they are on the pitch , they are the one's who score or let goals in, not him. There's a glass of red waiting for you in the kitchen" ..... which backs up what you say Traf, players take responsibility for playing poorly .... 

For next season , forwards are OK , Defenders are OK , midfield is weak , poor , needs a big change, we need an enforcer , someone who can run at defenders with the ball ...similar to Peter Reid , Jason McAteer ... defenders hate runners from midfield , runners with pace. I don't think any of the retained midfield players are good enough for a promotion team !

 

 

 

 

…Keepers are more than adequate 😬

32 minutes ago, Dr Faustus said:

…Keepers are more than adequate 😬

That's a given 

Just now, Nottm_Wanderer said:

That's a given 

Shay?

1 hour ago, Nottm_Wanderer said:

When I got home on Saturday night, I said to my wife (she's not a football fan , never will be , not interested , "you think more of Bolton than me" .... ) , "we were rubbish , players were rubbish , managers fault  .... she stopped me ...."how can it be the managers fault that the players were rubbish, the manager can't pass the ball from player 1 to player 2, he can't make them pass faster , run faster , they are on the pitch , they are the one's who score or let goals in, not him. There's a glass of red waiting for you in the kitchen" ..... which backs up what you say Traf, players take responsibility for playing poorly .... 

For next season , forwards are OK , Defenders are OK , midfield is weak , poor , needs a big change, we need an enforcer , someone who can run at defenders with the ball ...similar to Peter Reid , Jason McAteer ... defenders hate runners from midfield , runners with pace. I don't think any of the retained midfield players are good enough for a promotion team !

 

 

 

 

There's an argument to be had that an orchestra is only as good as the conductor at the front. If the trombone player is poor is it because he's being told to do things differently? Or is he just crap and we need a new trombone?

Its still raw with everyone involved with the club at the moment. Now is not the time for big career decisions. I think Evatt will have a good soul search in the next couple of weeks and address his approach. He has too. As far as I can see he seems to have the backing of the top brass so I would be very surprised if he walks. 

I've not read all three pages, but if people are sending back STs over Saturdays debacle, their heart wasn't in it anyway, and perhaps being a Bolton fan wasn't for them in the first place. 

They'll be back when the half season tickets come out at Christmas.

Fuck 'em.

3 hours ago, Nottm_Wanderer said:

Defenders are OK

Are you sure? The core back three last season and on Saturday was Jones (not a centre half) Santos (overrated) and Toal (out of position).

6 hours ago, Rival Son said:

Are you sure? The core back three last season and on Saturday was Jones (not a centre half) Santos (overrated) and Toal (out of position).

Genuinely think that Toal won't be able to develop in our current setup. He still make a lot of mistakes. 

All season it's seemed similar to the Kevin Keegan "They score 3 we'll score 4" and the defence has been attacking minded/hold the ball. 

The goal difference had the potential to cause problems had we kept up with Derby, despite the huge amount of goals we had scored.. That needs addressing and that's the defence.. For a manager that was a defender it's troubling. 

11 hours ago, only1swanny said:

To keep fan's onside RS is going to have to go..

The fact we've had random players apologizing and RS hasn't speaks volumes and shows his lack of leadership, 

His injury fuelled end to the season, playing with pain killing injections and limping off in numerous games, meant we were not seeing him at his consistent best. I think it’s easy to forget how good and influential he can be at his best. 

On the topic of leader/captain, as I have become with Evatt, I’m less convinced in my opinion of him. However if Evatt stays, I fully expect Santos to remain captain. I’ve said before it’s not a major influence IMO, it’s not like cricket. We’ve already started to build a leadership team around him with the likes of Tomo, Toal etc which has been a good improvement this season.

And as for this bandwagon of “Why have we not heard from him?” as a stick to beat him with, I’m not having this at all.

Don’t get me wrong if it comes out in the wash that him and Evatt are in Cahoots, that they are planning their exits, or he’s negotiating a way out independently, then he’ll deserve some strong criticism.

But there’s a whole host of genuine reasons why we’ve not heard from him;

- He’s taken a wise decision to come off social media (Pretty sure I’d do the same thing) 

- He’s off social media, so no means of quickly putting out a personal statement.

- Could be on holiday, so an official statement through the club/Bolton News would be difficult and/or inappropriate at this stage.

- He’s as hurt, emotional (and to an extreme possibility, fragile with his mental health) and broke by all this as we are.

- As a result he wants a considered statement 

- He might be waiting to hear from his manager and/or been advised from him

Theres loads of reasons.

At his consistent best he’s as good as anything in this league. I’d want him here next season. 

10 minutes ago, desperado said:

His injury fuelled end to the season, playing with pain killing injections and limping off in numerous games, meant we were not seeing him at his consistent best. I think it’s easy to forget how good and influential he can be at his best. 

On the topic of leader/captain, as I have become with Evatt, I’m less convinced in my opinion of him. However if Evatt stays, I fully expect Santos to remain captain. I’ve said before it’s not a major influence IMO, it’s not like cricket. We’ve already started to build a leadership team around him with the likes of Tomo, Toal etc which has been a good improvement this season.

And as for this bandwagon of “Why have we not heard from him?” as a stick to beat him with, I’m not having this at all.

Don’t get me wrong if it comes out in the wash that him and Evatt are in Cahoots, that they are planning their exits, or he’s negotiating a way out independently, then he’ll deserve some strong criticism.

But there’s a whole host of genuine reasons why we’ve not heard from him;

- He’s taken a wise decision to come off social media (Pretty sure I’d do the same thing) 

- He’s off social media, so no means of quickly putting out a personal statement.

- Could be on holiday, so an official statement through the club/Bolton News would be difficult and/or inappropriate at this stage.

- He’s as hurt, emotional (and to an extreme possibility, fragile with his mental health) and broke by all this as we are.

- As a result he wants a considered statement 

- He might be waiting to hear from his manager and/or been advised from him

Theres loads of reasons.

At his consistent best he’s as good as anything in this league. I’d want him here next season. 

He's definitely missed having George Johnston on his left this season too.

A back 3 of Johnston - Santos - Toal in my opinion would have made a big difference to our season. 

1 minute ago, BeeversLeftPeg said:

He's definitely missed having George Johnston on his left this season too.

A back 3 of Johnston - Santos - Toal in my opinion would have made a big difference to our season. 

I agree

I do wonder whether Jones/Santos/Toal has reached its shelf life, as our go to/regular 3. It’s worked very well at times (probably against slower sides and sides who press us). It was our back 3 in the Plymouth victory.

But it’s been shown up against sides who counter, break up play in transition, let us pass sideways etc. Their weaknesses get shown up, Toal being poor on his left, Jones being done for pace and Santos left standing on the ball.

We’re better when we play it quicker from the back and having Toal on the right and Johnston on the left will massively help this. 

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

16 minutes ago, desperado said:

His injury fuelled end to the season, playing with pain killing injections and limping off in numerous games, meant we were not seeing him at his consistent best. I think it’s easy to forget how good and influential he can be at his best. 

On the topic of leader/captain, as I have become with Evatt, I’m less convinced in my opinion of him. However if Evatt stays, I fully expect Santos to remain captain. I’ve said before it’s not a major influence IMO, it’s not like cricket. We’ve already started to build a leadership team around him with the likes of Tomo, Toal etc which has been a good improvement this season.

And as for this bandwagon of “Why have we not heard from him?” as a stick to beat him with, I’m not having this at all.

Don’t get me wrong if it comes out in the wash that him and Evatt are in Cahoots, that they are planning their exits, or he’s negotiating a way out independently, then he’ll deserve some strong criticism.

But there’s a whole host of genuine reasons why we’ve not heard from him;

- He’s taken a wise decision to come off social media (Pretty sure I’d do the same thing) 

- He’s off social media, so no means of quickly putting out a personal statement.

- Could be on holiday, so an official statement through the club/Bolton News would be difficult and/or inappropriate at this stage.

- He’s as hurt, emotional (and to an extreme possibility, fragile with his mental health) and broke by all this as we are.

- As a result he wants a considered statement 

- He might be waiting to hear from his manager and/or been advised from him

Theres loads of reasons.

At his consistent best he’s as good as anything in this league. I’d want him here next season. 

Stop making excuses for him. 

He’s the captain and he should have shown some leadership and bollocks in adversity. 

It comes with the territory. 

If he stays he has proven to us all he is not a leader and should not be captain any longer. 
 

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

Move it left to right quicker across the back 3, but if the opposition sit and go man for man then it’s difficult. Perhaps sacrifice Charles and put vic on earlier and go long…. Evatt chose to continue with an injured Maghoma and leave the long ball option until we were 2-0 down with half hour to go. 

Edited May 23, 20242 yr by Mounts Kipper

Just now, captainmed said:

Stop making excuses for him. 

He’s the captain and he should have shown some leadership and bollocks in adversity. 

It comes with the territory. 

If he stays he has proven to us all he is not a leader and should not be captain any longer. 
 

Disagree pal.

I want to see him take the pitch in August, fit, ready and raring to go to get promotion. 

Not interested in social media platitudes, means nothing 

1 minute ago, desperado said:

Disagree pal.

I want to see him take the pitch in August, fit, ready and raring to go to get promotion. 

Not interested in social media platitudes, means nothing 

I agree, but would be happy if no longer captain. 

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

I thought this Saturday. I was more angry with Sheehan for going missing and not showing any initiative or guile to get involved

12 minutes ago, desperado said:

I thought this Saturday. I was more angry with Sheehan for going missing and not showing any initiative or guile to get involved

Not for the first time either...

26 minutes ago, desperado said:

I agree

I do wonder whether Jones/Santos/Toal has reached its shelf life, as our go to/regular 3. It’s worked very well at times (probably against slower sides and sides who press us). It was our back 3 in the Plymouth victory.

But it’s been shown up against sides who counter, break up play in transition, let us pass sideways etc. Their weaknesses get shown up, Toal being poor on his left, Jones being done for pace and Santos left standing on the ball.

We’re better when we play it quicker from the back and having Toal on the right and Johnston on the left will massively help this. 

Opportunity to move Jones to RWB (last couple of full games there being 2 5-0 wins on the bounce last season too).

25 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

Worth dropping a forward for another midfielder at that point? These are the things Evatt has to get to grips with next season for me. The in game tweaks that turn a match in your favour, which we've seen others do to us this season, especially in games we've been on top from the start.

24 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I agree, but would be happy if no longer captain. 

This for me. Santos has shown that he can play football at this level. To quote Gattuso “sometimes maybe good. Sometimes maybe shit”. 

I remember Santos getting called out months ago on the Radio Manchester Wanderers podcast for not being a leader and everyone was in uproar. 

I’m sure it’ll happen after Saturdays performance but he isn’t this top league one player a lot of fans go on about. He’s good, but there is a solid reason no team in a higher division has taken a punt on him. 
 

Most frustrating thing is that when he's bang up for it he's imperious. 

Pompey home, Barnsley away he was fucking brilliant.

But for everyone of them there's a Barnsley at home or Pompey away.

Suppose he wouldn't be playing for Barnet and Bolton if it was any different.

Toal and Jones get away with murder btw. Granted Toal is on his wrong side, he's had some shockers this season and gets turned inside and out. The Barnsley goals away and home were from him losing his man or getting turned.

Jones is a better WB for me.

 

44 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Playing devil's advocate..

If you're stood with the ball facing a packed midfield and nobody is dropping deep to accept the ball, both wingbacks are static and marked up and the manager has told you all week to keep the balls grounded and draw the first phase on....

 

what are you meant to do other than a floaty cross field ball that their 6ft defenders will make food and drink out of??

If you’re the captain you should start doing the job and put rockets up arses and get the midfield moving. Start shouting and moving yourself for a start. Set an example.

You make sure that there’s not a picture of you standing with your foot on the ball looking like you haven’t a clue.

First break in play you need to get over to the gaffer and say this is not working, I can’t get them motivated, get someone less shit to wear the armband like Dempsey or most days Tommo, but not Saturday.

Also regarding Santos he often carried the ball out from the back earlier in his Bolton career this created and overload and that would have upset Oxford plan last week by creating overloads and messing up oxfords man marking, he needs to bring that option back into his game.