February 13, 20251 yr 14 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: It's called a faith. People misintepret facts all the time. Give me a moderate person of faith over an atheist zealot any day of the week. What's an "atheist zealot"?
February 13, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, Cheese said: What's an "atheist zealot"? Must be one of them fuckers who go door to door asking you not to believe in god.
February 13, 20251 yr 1 hour ago, MickyD said: There are lots of things folk believe that most sane folk don’t. Aye, there are also some people think we should bow down, and offer deference to a Royal Family (...and the head of that family is also the supreme governor of the Church of England, as it happens, so they're linked) People are odd Edited February 13, 20251 yr by Sweep
February 13, 20251 yr I've just invented a God. He's a purple monkey with wings of steel and 3 massive cocks. If you don't believe in Him, you're an atheist zealot.
February 13, 20251 yr Just now, Cheese said: Go on.. There is, as you yourself have demonstrated hence my reply, an certain level of intolerance implied in anyone who does have religious beliefs. " God doesn't exisit" ' it's the root of all problems" etc are lines that are often trotted out. Which is a belief in and of itself that a belief in a God is an inherent threat to personal freedom and that any liberal democracy must be adamantly secular and therefore rational. With only science and reason the singular ways to humanities progress and therefore is the only true enlightenment that is valid. What this path lacks is any nuanced engagement with historical record, religious studies or indeed, anthropology and is generally a vitriolic reaction against violence committed under a religious banner. It's why the New Atheist movement does come under critism. By the way, for the avoidance of any doubt, I am an atheist - and a lapsed member of the Humanist Society (the great Alice Roberts is the current president so I might rejoin at some point) I just find the whole God Is Not thing a bit unedifying and a rejection of humans finding meaning beyond what we know which is the source of much great art and culture. Hence New Atheisms much critiqued zealotry which has lead to some forms of religious intolerance.
February 13, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: There is, as you yourself have demonstrated hence my reply, an certain level of intolerance implied in anyone who does have religious beliefs. " God doesn't exisit" ' it's the root of all problems" etc are lines that are often trotted out. Which is a belief in and of itself that a belief in a God is an inherent threat to personal freedom and that any liberal democracy must be adamantly secular and therefore rational. With only science and reason the singular ways to humanities progress and therefore is the only true enlightenment that is valid. What this path lacks is any nuanced engagement with historical record, religious studies or indeed, anthropology and is generally a vitriolic reaction against violence committed under a religious banner. It's why the New Atheist movement does come under critism. By the way, for the avoidance of any doubt, I am an atheist - and a lapsed member of the Humanist Society (the great Alice Roberts is the current president so I might rejoin at some point) I just find the whole God Is Not thing a bit unedifying and a rejection of humans finding meaning beyond what we know which is the source of much great art and culture. Hence New Atheisms much critiqued zealotry which has lead to some forms of religious intolerance. What the fuck is "New Atheism"? As I said early in the thread - people can believe whatever fucking nonsense they want - just don't try to impose those beliefs on everyone else, and accept that people will call the fucking nonsense out for what it is. Fucking nonsense. Do you believe in my purple monkey God who has wings of steel and 3 massive cocks? Or are you a zealot?
February 13, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, Cheese said: What the fuck is "New Atheism"? As I said early in the thread - people can believe whatever fucking nonsense they want - just don't try to impose those beliefs on everyone else, and accept that people will call the fucking nonsense out for what it is. Fucking nonsense. Do you believe in my purple monkey God who has wings of steel and 3 massive cocks? Or are you a zealot? New Atheism is the movement fronted by Richard Dawson (there's three others who together were called the Four Horsemen I believe) And your 'fucking nonsense' just doubles down on the point I was politely trying to make. You say 'don't shove those beliefs down my throat' but in the next breath say that. The fact you can't see the hypocrisy and waffle on about inventing a new God and if you don't believe it you're a zealot demonstrates a level of intolerance that I thought you'd be able to acknowledge.
February 13, 20251 yr Just now, Not in Crawley said: New Atheism is the movement fronted by Richard Dawson (there's three others who together were called the Four Horsemen I believe) And your 'fucking nonsense' just doubles down on the point I was politely trying to make. You say 'don't shove those beliefs down my throat' but in the next breath say that. The fact you can't see the hypocrisy and waffle on about inventing a new God and if you don't believe it you're a zealot demonstrates a level of intolerance that I thought you'd be able to acknowledge. Just googled 'Richard Dawson'. Which one are you referring to? The dead American actor, or the English folk musician?
February 13, 20251 yr 4 minutes ago, gonzo said: I'm game for the purple monkey. Do we have a special book or anything? and what sort of monkey is it? - I'd be up for a baboon or a gibbon as they're ace, but something like a pygmy marmoset would just be rubbish
February 13, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, Cheese said: Just googled 'Richard Dawson'. Which one are you referring to? The dead American actor, or the English folk musician? You little tinker - Richard Dawkins. Have a little read about the so called Four Horsemen - I think Hitchens was another. It's and all pun intended, quite a revelation.
February 13, 20251 yr 3 minutes ago, Sweep said: and what sort of monkey is it? - I'd be up for a baboon or a gibbon as they're ace, but something like a pygmy marmoset would just be rubbish Heresy! How dare you mock our divine pygmy marmoset, you gibbon-loving Beelezebub. BURN HIM!!!!
February 13, 20251 yr 11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: You little tinker - Richard Dawkins. Have a little read about the so called Four Horsemen - I think Hitchens was another. It's and all pun intended, quite a revelation. I've read all of Richard Dawkins' and Christopher Hitchens' books. They didn't 'lead a movement called the Four Horsemen' or anything of the sort. That is utter bollocks. I disagree with a lot of Dawkins' personal views, but he's an Evolutionary Biologist. That's all. Do you think Religion should be unquestionable?
February 13, 20251 yr 35 minutes ago, gonzo said: I'm game for the purple monkey. Do we have a special book or anything? Our special book is the the 1998 Christmas edition of Knave. Because of the multiple layers of irony. Edited February 13, 20251 yr by Cheese
February 13, 20251 yr 24 minutes ago, Sweep said: and what sort of monkey is it? - I'd be up for a baboon or a gibbon as they're ace, but something like a pygmy marmoset would just be rubbish He is just a monkey. There's no need for specifics, apart from the wings of steel and 3 massive cocks.
February 13, 20251 yr 3 minutes ago, Cheese said: I've read all of Richard Dawkins' and Christopher Hitchens' books. They didn't 'lead a movement called the Four Horsemen' or anything of the sort. That is utter bollocks. I disagree with a lot of Dawkins' personal views, but he's an Evolutionary Biologist. That's all. Do you think Religion should be unquestionable? It's what they were called under that movement - whether they saw themselves as such is an irrelevance, it did lead to a somewhat fanatical view that only rationalism is the one true path, and asking say disregards an awful lot. So 'bollocks' it is not. Anything can be questioned, that wasn't the point I was making, I was simply questioning your unshakable belief that there isn't a divine being and all religion as 'nonsense' Works both ways.
February 13, 20251 yr 4 minutes ago, Cheese said: I've read all of Richard Dawkins' and Christopher Hitchens' books. They didn't 'lead a movement called the Four Horsemen' or anything of the sort. That is utter bollocks. I disagree with a lot of Dawkins' personal views, but he's an Evolutionary Biologist. That's all. Do you think Religion should be unquestionable? He didn't claim they lead a movement called the Four Horsemen The Four Horseman thing comes from a well-known roundtable discussion they had as influencial thinkers within the New Atheism movement
February 13, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: It's what they were called under that movement - whether they saw themselves as such is an irrelevance, it did lead to a somewhat fanatical view that only rationalism is the one true path, and asking say disregards an awful lot. So 'bollocks' it is not. Anything can be questioned, that wasn't the point I was making, I was simply questioning your unshakable belief that there isn't a divine being and all religion as 'nonsense' Works both ways. I don't have any 'unshakable beliefs'. Show me some evidence that is contrary to what I understand, and I will change my mind.
February 13, 20251 yr Interestingly, Dawkins has since softened his stance on the influence Christianity has had on our society and the value of some Christian teaching in comparison to the alternatives, and identifies as "culturally Christian" even if he doesn't believe in God or things like the immaculate conception and the resurrection
February 13, 20251 yr Just now, Cheese said: I don't have any 'unshakable beliefs'. Show me some evidence that is contrary to what I understand, and I will change my mind. I'm not asking you to change your mind, just as I wouldn't try and convince anyone of an belief in anything. I'm just saying dismissing all religious beliefs as nonsense is falling into the same trap that you claim to find unpalatable with religion. That's all.
February 13, 20251 yr 5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: I'm not asking you to change your mind, just as I wouldn't try and convince anyone of an belief in anything. I'm just saying dismissing all religious beliefs as nonsense is falling into the same trap that you claim to find unpalatable with religion. That's all. It is all fucking nonsense though, until someone provides some evidence to prove otherwise. Do you think it is possible that the purple monkey with wings of steel and 3 massive cocks exists? If someone genuinely believed that, would you think they were of sound mind? Edited February 13, 20251 yr by Cheese
February 13, 20251 yr 2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: Interestingly, Dawkins has since softened his stance on the influence Christianity has had on our society and the value of some Christian teaching in comparison to the alternatives, and identifies as "culturally Christian" even if he doesn't believe in God or things like the immaculate conception and the resurrection Indeed, the New Atheism thing, which despite not knowing about Cheese demonstrates a lot of, had real problems with its secular rigidity that does dismiss, as I say, our history and humanity and can lead to forms of religious intolerance that are just as unpalatable as forced religious doctrine. I think most of them have either rowed back on or softened their stance in the intervening years. Apart from Hitchens, due to being dead and therefore closer to the truth about the matter than any of us. Or not. Depending on your point of view.
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