just a quickie ,cos its Sunday night and we won yesterday.

A  god ?

any God 

then prove it !

I dont believe 

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

Now that's an RW level of answer, which you probably know, as it misses the point that I was making about the inherent flaw in the so called rational intolerance of any faith based belief system, and in doing such denies what is a fundamental part of the make up of humanity as a species and uts role in our development and progress.

It's too dogmatic for my taste, even as a life long atheist.

Nothing dogmatic about my position in the slightest. I just don't understand idiots who believe things that are demonstrably untrue or impossible to prove. Almost every single human that ever existed had the same instinct at the moment they were born, until older humans implanted nonsense into their heads.

9 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Atheism is a conscious belief that there there is no god 

No it isn't.

Just now, Cheese said:

No it isn't.

It is

It goes one step further than agnosticism

Please don't call me dogmatic as I describe a belief as a fucking nonsense and those who believe it as idiots 

😆

7 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

But a non belief in God shouldn't be questioned otherwise its 'fucking nonsense' and irrational?

Seems you might be in danger of dissapearing up your own rhetorical fundament here.

Question it till the cows come home. Until someone provides some evidence that a God exists, I will refuse to believe it does, and call it fucking nonsense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you think sitting on the fence is a more logical position? Occam's Razor-style?

4 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Please don't call me dogmatic as I describe a belief as a fucking nonsense and those who believe it as idiots 

😆

Show me a single shred of evidence that their belief is true, and I will stop calling those people idiots who believe in fucking nonsense. It's really simple.

Just now, Cheese said:

Show me a single shred of evidence that their belief is true, and I will stop calling those people idiots who believe in fucking nonsense. It's really simple.

All very well

But it by definition makes you dogmatic about it

Just now, Cheese said:

Question it till the cows come home. Until someone provides some evidence that a God exists, I will refuse to believe it does, and call it fucking nonsense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you think sitting on the fence is a more logical position? Occam's Razor-style?

Yes, and that's why I mentioned atheist inflexibility in the first place.

I told you I'm not sitting on the fence, I don't believe in a divinity. But I wouldn't call people who have faith irrational, stupid or that it's 'fucking nonsense.

We have the same belief, I'm more of your moderate, rainbow guitar strap, new testament style atheist, you seem to be on the more fundamental ISIS side.

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

Yes, and that's why I mentioned atheist inflexibility in the first place.

I told you I'm not sitting on the fence, I don't believe in a divinity. But I wouldn't call people who have faith irrational, stupid or that it's 'fucking nonsense.

We have the same belief, I'm more of your moderate, rainbow guitar strap, new testament style atheist, you seem to be on the more fundamental ISIS side.

Because I say what you think.

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

All very well

But it by definition makes you dogmatic about it

Which one do you believe in?

Just now, Cheese said:

Because I say what you think.

I don't think people with faith are stupid, and I don't think it's irrational nor would I think to be high handed or think I'm in anyway clever enough to regard faith as a nonsense.

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Which one do you believe in?

The only holy trinity I recognise are the three cocks of Gareth the purple monkey

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Show me a single shred of evidence that their belief is true, and I will stop calling those people idiots who believe in fucking nonsense. It's really simple.

The fine tuning problem is the closest I've come to as a reasonable argument for intelligent design.

15 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I don't think people with faith are stupid, and I don't think it's irrational nor would I think to be high handed or think I'm in anyway clever enough to regard faith as a nonsense.

I don't think they're all stupid. I know plenty of people who are religious and are also very clever. But they still believe a load of fucking nonsense.

19 minutes ago, kent_white said:

The fine tuning problem is the closest I've come to as a reasonable argument for intelligent design.

Evolution. It happens over millions of years, involving billions of individuals. Even the slightest of genetic advantages will prevail over time.

Edited February 13, 20251 yr by Cheese

3 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

There is, as you yourself have demonstrated hence my reply, an certain level of intolerance implied in anyone who does have religious beliefs. " God doesn't exisit" ' it's the root of all problems" etc are lines that are often trotted out. Which is a belief in and of itself that a belief in a God is an inherent threat to personal freedom and that any liberal democracy must be adamantly secular and therefore rational. With only science and reason the singular ways to humanities progress and therefore is the only true enlightenment that is valid.

What this path lacks is any nuanced engagement with historical record, religious studies or indeed, anthropology and is generally a vitriolic reaction against violence committed under a religious banner.

It's why the New Atheist movement does come under critism.

By the way, for the avoidance of any doubt, I am an atheist - and a lapsed member of the Humanist Society (the great Alice Roberts is the current president so I might rejoin at some point)

I just find the whole God Is Not thing a bit unedifying and a rejection of humans finding meaning beyond what we know which is the source of much great art and culture.

Hence New Atheisms much critiqued zealotry which has lead to some forms of religious intolerance.

I am getting a bit lost here ,there are so many long words but i think i got the last bit.

So is driving a minibus into a crowd of people in Munich an act of religious intolerance or not?

Lets revert to God and the old ways and maybe he/she could sort out this stupid people falling out

again and again and again about some words on sacred text

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Evolution. It happens over millions of years, involving billions of individuals. Even the slightest of genetic advantages will prevail over time.

The fine tuning problem is separate to evolution. You'll know about it I'm sure. 

Essentially the chances of this all happening by accident are something along the lines of 10 to the 229. 

Or

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1

Admittedly this doesn't 'prove' intelligent design - but it does raise an important question about how we came to exist given the vanishingly small odds of it being a coincidence. 

The counter argument is the multiverse theory and that we just happen to live in the one universe which is conducive to matter and elecromagnetism and gravity and ultimately life. But we can't test that either, sadly.

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

He is just a monkey. 

"He's a monkey
He's just a monkey
And I've had so many
Monkeys before
In very many ways
He's just one more

I don't know how to looooooove him ..."

Gareth Purple Monkey Superstar

At theatres near you soon. (tickets available through NiC)

Edited February 13, 20251 yr by wakey
called him purple money, not monkey. Risked excommunication.

14 minutes ago, kent_white said:

The fine tuning problem is separate to evolution. You'll know about it I'm sure. 

Essentially the chances of this all happening by accident are something along the lines of 10 to the 229. 

Or

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1

Admittedly this doesn't 'prove' intelligent design - but it does raise an important question about how we came to exist given the vanishingly small odds of it being a coincidence. 

The counter argument is the multiverse theory and that we just happen to live in the one universe which is conducive to matter and elecromagnetism and gravity and ultimately life. But we can't test that either, sadly.

But we can literally trace back to how life was formed. Millions and millions of years of evolution have lead to where we are today. It didn't just happen.

We've come from single cell organisms to talking about it on a division 3 football forum.

Life forms have evolved. Those that haven't or didn't are now gone.

The only fine tuning is evolution.

 

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Nothing dogmatic about my position in the slightest. I just don't understand idiots who believe things that are demonstrably untrue or impossible to prove. Almost every single human that ever existed had the same instinct at the moment they were born, until older humans implanted nonsense into their heads.

See, occasionally you can speak some sense. 
 

As you were. 

21 minutes ago, kent_white said:

The fine tuning problem is separate to evolution. You'll know about it I'm sure. 

Essentially the chances of this all happening by accident are something along the lines of 10 to the 229. 

Or

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1

Admittedly this doesn't 'prove' intelligent design - but it does raise an important question about how we came to exist given the vanishingly small odds of it being a coincidence. 

The counter argument is the multiverse theory and that we just happen to live in the one universe which is conducive to matter and elecromagnetism and gravity and ultimately life. But we can't test that either, sadly.

Have you thought about taking it back a step further? What are the chances of an intelligent being evolving to the point that it can create an entire universe and everything in it? And where did that being come from? Absolute fucking nonsense.

Edited February 13, 20251 yr by Cheese

Bit of a waste of time making infinite galaxies filled with wank planets that no fucker can live on if some fucker did create the universe.

They'd make it perfect wouldn't they?

Why make sun's that swell up and engulf everything in its path?

 

18 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Have you thought about taking it back a step further? What are the chances of an intelligent being evolving to the point that it can create an entire universe and everything in it? And where did that being come from? Absolute fucking nonsense.

Distant relation of mine 

34 minutes ago, wakey said:

"He's a monkey
He's just a monkey
And I've had so many
Monkeys before
In very many ways
He's just one more

I don't know how to looooooove him ..."

Gareth Purple Monkey Superstar

At theatres near you soon. (tickets available through NiC)

 

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Because I say what you think.

you're saying what you think

and from reading it, this is where the zealot angle comes into play