Conversation today about this but none of us really could name any 1 player. 

9 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Strange with McAtee that he's considered to have done "nothing", but he's also scored some of the better goals this season.  I'm not having a dig at Vic here but in comparison could Vic have scored any of those that McAtee scored at Crawley, Northampton, Stevenage, Rotherham, Bristol, 2 at Shrewsbury, home v Mansfield, Cambridge, Orient and Brum (those last 2 were 2 of the better moments of this season)?  Of course not.  I'm as critical of him as anyone on his bad days like yesterday, but anyone saying he's done nothing or he's the worst striker we've had is frankly not paying attention.

And its also nonsense to say he doesn't try, just because he runs funny and throws his arms up, does that mean he's not committed?  He looks committed to me, just lacking in a lot of areas eg heading, passing, shooting and dribbling!  But we've got and have had far worse in our squad, its not his fault IE paid well over the odds.

Great post.

Don’t get me wrong, like you, I often get frustrated with our players for lack of output and poor games, like McAtee Friday.

I think Friday the frustrations were more my doing than his. Tutu in that first 10/15 looked lively. His pace and trickery looked like it could cause problems for Wycombe. As soon as McAtee replaced him, in my mind it was game over. Never once did he beat the full back and create something. He more often came back inside and on the odd occasion he did try, he became frustrated and then we see the arm throwing.

But if the opposite happens it’s even worse! If he keeps trying to take his man on and loses the ball more, that’s counterproductive. And if his reaction when things go wrong is to drop his shoulders and sulk then we do have an attitude problem.

I tend to forget in the heat of the moment that I’m a 50 odd year old bloke and these are 20 odd year old fellas playing third tier football.

Yes bad attitudes and lack of commitment can very much exist, I’ve got one this age 😂

But I’m not having it that him having short socks and waving his hands about is a sign he doesn’t care or has a bad attitude.

His acknowledgment with the young lad at Barnsley shows far more about his character and attitude in a positive way.

Just like a few of our players, he was overpaid for and is too similar to others we have in the squad. This and him replacing our fastest winger on Friday is not his fault.

Edited April 20, 20251 yr by desperado

As for player of the year. It can only be a 3 way contest (as I’m dismissing Morley - we’re not voting for Wycombe’s POTS) 

Thomason, Cogley, Collins.

I’m torn…. Collins… just, especially if he bags a few more in the last 3 games…and sneaks us into the play-offs (wake me up matron! 😂) 

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

Cogley.

Can't fault him this second half of the season. He's been at it.

He's probably stood out more for me because he seems to be the only one who can actually run.

Fucking hell our team is slow as fuck 🤦‍♂️

Pls buy some players with legs next season

 

 

Be like the dads race at a primary school sports day if they ever all had a race.

48 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Be like the dads race at a primary school sports day if they ever all had a race.

More like the mums 😁

11 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Strange with McAtee that he's considered to have done "nothing", but he's also scored some of the better goals this season.  I'm not having a dig at Vic here but in comparison could Vic have scored any of those that McAtee scored at Crawley, Northampton, Stevenage, Rotherham, Bristol, 2 at Shrewsbury, home v Mansfield, Cambridge, Orient and Brum (those last 2 were 2 of the better moments of this season)?  Of course not.  I'm as critical of him as anyone on his bad days like yesterday, but anyone saying he's done nothing or he's the worst striker we've had is frankly not paying attention.

And its also nonsense to say he doesn't try, just because he runs funny and throws his arms up, does that mean he's not committed?  He looks committed to me, just lacking in a lot of areas eg heading, passing, shooting and dribbling!  But we've got and have had far worse in our squad, its not his fault IE paid well over the odds.

Not done nothing, clearly. In his credit, when a presentable chance is put before him he can certainly finish them very well. Otherwise, apart from a little purple patch from half time at Shrewsbury to, in common with the rest, a really good night v Brum, there have been way too many days / nights like yesterday.

The issue with him, as with a good number of our others, and as SS alluded to on Friday night, is that he might doing what he sees as trying, within the compass of what he's good at, but it's not enough and hasn't been enough on far too many occasions. 

It’s funny how people see things differently, with a number of people touting Cogley for player of the season. For me, he’s one of the players that need to be upgraded.

On the attacking front, his crossing is awful.  He gets in some good positions and is fed by some great balls (often from Sheehan or Morley) but the execution is awful. It appears he finds a white shirt with around 1 in 20 crosses.

If he’s not in space, he never wants to take a defender on, in 1:1 situations, choosing to lay the ball back, and all momentum in a break is lost.

In defence, his tackling is weaker than Sheehan. He rarely commits unless it’s 70:30 in his favour. And, positionally, he’s as bad as Santos; but doesn’t have the pace and tackling ability to recover.

Finally, if McAtee is guilty of pointing, can we add Cogley to the charge sheet?

His fitness and athleticism are to his credit, which means he rarely misses a game and gets into some good positions. However, in terms of outcomes, he regularly fails to deliver.

As I said at the top, we see things differently but, for me, full backs (right, as well as left) are a must, if Schumacher wants to settle for a back four.

Player of the season? I’ve shortlisted two who’ve only given us half a season: Forrester and Morley.

Edited April 20, 20251 yr by Rival Son

3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

If he hadn't that would be more ammo for you though.

Other players failed to fill their boots against kids.

He is the leading league scorer.

Clearly he has weaknesses-they all do- but it seems that you will always seek a negative rather than a balanced view.

Our main weakness is and has been defensively. 

More steel in the side, and faster play, to suit his movement and he'll be perfectly fine for us at this level.

 

When a big percentage of his goals came in a tin pot competition, I think it's pretty balanced to look at his performances in the one that matters. Where he sits on that top scorers table (joint 10th with a few others) seems about right for his overall performance levels.

He was signed as someone supposedly Championship ready, and is still talked up as being a special talent. I don't see how that equates with his pretty average league return. If we're going to carry a maverick, he needs to do more.

I haven't said he's shit, but he's not League 1 Gazza either. He's a career third tier and below footballer who's got a bit of magic in him but never had what it takes to go higher. That's fine and will have its place in the squad, but as SS said 'we need better players all over'.

I wouldn't be rushing to sell him, but if we got a good offer I'd be confident enough in getting the same output out of McAtee/Randall if they had better around them.

Just now, Tombwfc said:

 

When a big percentage of his goals came in a tin pot competition, I think it's pretty balanced to look at his performances in the one that matters. Where he sits on that top scorers table (joint 10th with a few others) seems about right for his overall performance levels.

He was signed as someone supposedly Championship ready, and is still talked up as being a special talent. I don't see how that equates with his pretty average league return. If we're going to carry a maverick, he needs to do more.

I haven't said he's shit, but he's not League 1 Gazza either. He's a career third tier and below footballer who's got a bit of magic in him but never had what it takes to go higher. That's fine and will have its place in the squad, but as SS said 'we need better players all over'.

I wouldn't be rushing to sell him, but if we got a good offer I'd be confident enough in getting the same output out of McAtee/Randall if they had better around them.

Conversely, I would be confident of getting a lot more out of Collins, if he had better around him.

The lack of a proper striker/target man/ No 9 / whatever you want to call it is hurting this team so much. I think we believed that McAtee would fill that role, but sadly not.

No doubt fans of other clubs will say this about theirs, and you do see a lot of the more extreme end of it on Twitter, but we seem to have more than our share of players who polarise opinions. 

In a season like this one has been it's very much a 'least worst' sort of vote. In that vein, considering the sort of defending and constantly changing personnel they've had to work with, both keepers have done alright. Neither outstanding but both ok 

Edited April 20, 20251 yr by ianofcleveleys

38 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

When a big percentage of his goals came in a tin pot competition, I think it's pretty balanced to look at his performances in the one that matters. Where he sits on that top scorers table (joint 10th with a few others) seems about right for his overall performance levels.

He was signed as someone supposedly Championship ready, and is still talked up as being a special talent. I don't see how that equates with his pretty average league return. If we're going to carry a maverick, he needs to do more.

I haven't said he's shit, but he's not League 1 Gazza either. He's a career third tier and below footballer who's got a bit of magic in him but never had what it takes to go higher. That's fine and will have its place in the squad, but as SS said 'we need better players all over'.

I wouldn't be rushing to sell him, but if we got a good offer I'd be confident enough in getting the same output out of McAtee/Randall if they had better around them.

The biggest issue SS has been left with is us having, at a stroke, veered from Moneyball and paying £85k for someone like Morley to being the L1 City, tossing money into buying up what we thought were the best other talents in the Division. The outcome for me has been, no matter what nice things the Wycombe boss said before yesterday, that we've well overpaid for a host of players who've shown nothing to suggest their ceiling will be any higher than where we are now. 

Using City parallel again, we've bought a few Kalvin Phillips or Jack Grealish, are stuck with them and will find them hard to shift at anything other than a punishing loss unless SS can use the deals open to him in Summer, and the pre season work, to set things up so we get a lot more out of them. It won't be easy by any means but I sense SS can do it.

1 hour ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Conversely, I would be confident of getting a lot more out of Collins, if he had better around him.

The lack of a proper striker/target man/ No 9 / whatever you want to call it is hurting this team so much. I think we believed that McAtee would fill that role, but sadly not.

Collins misses more easy chances than Dion did; he backs out of every challenge and his passing is awful. He can hit a ball and sometimes scores but him and a few others are not good enough

4 hours ago, desperado said:

His acknowledgment with the young lad at Barnsley shows far more about his character and attitude in a positive way.

I forgot to mention that in my post earlier, it reflected well on him

15 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

12. Filled his boots against kids and reserves in the Vertu. Might as well count Abimbola's.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/league-one/top-scorers

 

He is by far the best striker we have so he is least of the problem

victor has been a waste of 500k , Mcatee  a million and Gomes whatever we pay him wages wise is just a sick note . Etete not fit and not interested in being here . Dion Charles never looked the same after the injury last season so at least we got shut of him for good money shame it got spunked on Randall 

We have been over reliant on Collins recently unable to swap strikers rest then he is running on empty and the service is crap 

Edited April 20, 20251 yr by Farnywhite

5 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Our main weakness is and has been defensively. 

More steel in the side, and faster play, to suit his movement and he'll be perfectly fine for us at this level.

There is a perception that we are "weak" defensively (clearly true) and that we are OK up front.  In 10 games against the only promotion challengers in this league (everyone from Orient down are also rans), we've scored in 2.  8 games, never really looked like troubling the keeper in most of them, did we get any near misses never mind goals?  Whether its the midfield's fault or the strikers, we are woefully short in the games that matter, we couldn't go into a play off expecting to even score never mind win.

There's a great big hole right in the middle of our team holding back the weak players from really showing their ability.

I think back to the Big Sam days and i see the likes of Diouf and Stelios and i cant help but think they wouldnt have been the players they were for us without Davies.

Nobody comes out of this season looking very good but it has to go to Collins, without his goals we'd be in a dire place right now. I also have to give it to Morley for being being out of the team, going out on loan and being called League 1 Pirlo by Wycombe.

 

 

There's more to being weak minded than lack of tough tackling and defensive mistakes. 

It's being brave on the ball, running and driving at defences instead of taking the safe option. Forwards marking themselves out of the game instead of taking a chance to find the space.

Nobody is brave. They've had any kind of creativity drilled out of them and now it's just become their instinct to play it safe.

We don't run and battle and we don't impose ourselves in any way other than mountains of possession.

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

There's more to being weak minded than lack of tough tackling and defensive mistakes. 

It's being brave on the ball, running and driving at defences instead of taking the safe option. Forwards marking themselves out of the game instead of taking a chance to find the space.

Nobody is brave. They've had any kind of creativity drilled out of them and now it's just become their instinct to play it safe.

We don't run and battle and we don't impose ourselves in any way other than mountains of possession.

Proper missed Paris in midfield for that this season

7 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Proper missed Paris in midfield for that this season

B A Maghoma? 😀

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

Proper missed Paris in midfield for that this season

God we've missed him.

Connor Bradley the season before.

Fossey/Kieron Lee before that.

The recruitment in the past two windows amounts to gross misconduct.

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Nobody is brave. They've had any kind of creativity drilled out of them and now it's just become their instinct to play it safe.

Sums it up for me. I hoped that with Evatt gone they'd blossom. But, after the first 3 or 4 under Svhu they reverted. Like it's been coached too far to be overridden.

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

There's more to being weak minded than lack of tough tackling and defensive mistakes. 

It's being brave on the ball, running and driving at defences instead of taking the safe option. Forwards marking themselves out of the game instead of taking a chance to find the space.

Nobody is brave. They've had any kind of creativity drilled out of them and now it's just become their instinct to play it safe.

We don't run and battle and we don't impose ourselves in any way other than mountains of possession.

Remember being at the Northampton game with a mate who was back home from the States for a bit (the artist formerly known as tyls white 😀).

It was a bit of a struggle was that and he commented that it would take a while to knock Evatt ball out of them.

Don't think either of us thought it would take until next season but here we are 🤷‍♂️

7 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Sums it up for me. I hoped that with Evatt gone they'd blossom. But, after the first 3 or 4 under Svhu they reverted. Like it's been coached too far to be overridden.

For me it's a fair bit of it being coached into them to death but also what their individual DNA is, as they were specifically recruited to do certain things a certain way. Evatt didn't turn any hod carriers into artists. 

3 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

There is a perception that we are "weak" defensively (clearly true) and that we are OK up front.  In 10 games against the only promotion challengers in this league (everyone from Orient down are also rans), we've scored in 2.  8 games, never really looked like troubling the keeper in most of them, did we get any near misses never mind goals?  Whether its the midfield's fault or the strikers, we are woefully short in the games that matter, we couldn't go into a play off expecting to even score never mind win.

 

Tottenham are 16th in the Premier League but have scored the 5th most goals. It's not that their attack is something special, it's that if you concede goals for fun you're almost bound to get a few the other way.

We're a less extreme version of that. We could well improve the attack next season and score less if we stop shipping 1.5 goals per game.

We'd score a hell of a lot more if we had any cunt at the top of the pitch who could keep hold of the ball.

6 hours ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Conversely, I would be confident of getting a lot more out of Collins, if he had better around him.

The lack of a proper striker/target man/ No 9 / whatever you want to call it is hurting this team so much. I think we believed that McAtee would fill that role, but sadly not.

I certainly did.  But I had overestimated IE's ability to sign the right type of players.  We lost JDB and Jerome so anyone with half a brain would surely say the priority was someone with a little bit of strength and/or heading ability and/or someone that would be described as a centre forward on their CV. 

But no, IE knew better and we got Collins mark 2; then in Jan when he had the opportunity to right the wrong, he chose to sign a midfield version of the pair of them for another huge fee (despite knowing Morley was coming back) and one of the worst players any of us have seen from Cardiff.  It beggars belief.  And some on here reacted to any criticism of IE with "show us your coaching badges" type comments.

Even professional managers get it wrong occasionally, and in IEs case very wrong for a prolonged period of time.