Meanwhile in Iran

[Tonge moor green jacket]

14 minutes ago, Zico said:

Yeah she's being pretty generalised for me and it's easy to flip it the other way 

And ask certain folk if you support the notion everyday Iranians deserve to live freely and peacefully why don't you feel the same way about Palestinians

No one has said they don't.

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Wonder if the US meddled in their socials before it all kicked off like the Russians did here?

Would imagine so.

Or maybe mosad.

[Zico]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

No one has said they don't.

 

So why do folk support or ignore the actions of Israel resulting in 000s of innocent deaths

Because they do

[London Wanderer]

10 minutes ago, Zico said:

Yeah she's being pretty generalised for me and it's easy to flip it the other way 

And ask certain folk if you support the notion everyday Iranians deserve to live freely and peacefully why don't you feel the same way about Palestinians

Aye you easily could

 Her whole argument is founded on a false generalisation.

Our government & the US have criticised & sanctioned the Islamic regime in Iran  for decades. There’s certainly no silence.

Much of the pressure around the current Israeli government was to do similar & put more pressure on them. Which to be fair we’ve finally done by sanctioning Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotric for their violence in the West Bank & recognising statehood. 
 

Whilst there might be occasional shows of solidarity when things escalate , folk aren’t going to start protesting weekly on the same scale when our government openly sanctions Iran. 
 

We don’t need to turn this into another left vs right issue. It’s the last thing that’s needed.

Question is how far governments should go in helping to topple the regime. 

[frank_spencer]

Iran and Venezuela have their similarities in that most sensible people agree that the leadership of the country needs changing for the sake of its people, the argument will come about when the question becomes how to do it.

[Duck Egg]

No surprise but I didn't know that the Shah was installed by the UK and the US after Iran's democratically elected government was overthrown for nationalising their oil industry. 

[royal white]

22 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Iran and Venezuela have their similarities in that most sensible people agree that the leadership of the country needs changing for the sake of its people, the argument will come about when the question becomes how to do it.

And here lies the problem, America had a bounty on Venezuelas President for years, numerous presidents have said he needs to go. Trump went in and got rid and now hes classed as the bad guy.

 

Same with Hamas, people have been saying for years they need to go, yet nothing was done, Israel Finally went in and guess who the bad guy is. 
 

Now iran, what’s going to happen? Reports are nearly a 1000 dead in a couple of weeks. If no one goes in to help that number will Increase and the regime will likely stay the same. If Trump sends the yanks in who’s going to be the bad guy?  

[bolty58]

7 hours ago, Zico said:

Yeah she's being pretty generalised for me and it's easy to flip it the other way 

And ask certain folk if you support the notion everyday Iranians deserve to live freely and peacefully why don't you feel the same way about Palestinians

????? They do have the right. They just choose to unleash missiles, assassins and hate on a daily basis.

[bolty58]

7 hours ago, Zico said:

So why do folk support or ignore the actions of Israel resulting in 000s of innocent deaths

Because they do

Retaliation is a cunt isn't it?

[bolty58]

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

And here lies the problem, America had a bounty on Venezuelas President for years, numerous presidents have said he needs to go. Trump went in and got rid and now hes classed as the bad guy.

 

Same with Hamas, people have been saying for years they need to go, yet nothing was done, Israel Finally went in and guess who the bad guy is. 
 

Now iran, what’s going to happen? Reports are nearly a 1000 dead in a couple of weeks. If no one goes in to help that number will Increase and the regime will likely stay the same. If Trump sends the yanks in who’s going to be the bad guy?  

Let the lefties screech. The bad guys are the ones being ousted and we all know it.

 

[London Wanderer]

29 minutes ago, royal white said:

And here lies the problem, America had a bounty on Venezuelas President for years, numerous presidents have said he needs to go. Trump went in and got rid and now hes classed as the bad guy.

 

Same with Hamas, people have been saying for years they need to go, yet nothing was done, Israel Finally went in and guess who the bad guy is. 
 

Now iran, what’s going to happen? Reports are nearly a 1000 dead in a couple of weeks. If no one goes in to help that number will Increase and the regime will likely stay the same. If Trump sends the yanks in who’s going to be the bad guy?  

There's a bit more to the conflict than that mate. They've done far more than just go in and get rid of Hamas. Openly spoken of wanting more land for themselves, openly taken more land in the West Bank and continue to deny statehood.

Even if the US get involved in Iran to help topple the Islamists, they won't be saying that Iran can't have sovereignty long term. Whereas Israel go in and topple Hamas, butcher innocents in their thousands and then say to all the people living there that they can't have their own country. Which is why Israel receive a fair amount of criticism. Or as you say, get labelled the 'bad guy' 😃

You make a fair point though, Trump is such a tosser that even when he does do something that deserves praise he rarely receives it. 

If Trump's administration manage to strike the regime in a way that allows for a peaceful transition to democracy then I'll be the first to praise him. It's a risky game though. We don't yet know the long term implications of striking the regime and if it will help create more stability in the region. 

[royal white]

14 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

There's a bit more to the conflict than that mate. They've done far more than just go in and get rid of Hamas. Openly spoken of wanting more land for themselves, openly taken more land in the West Bank and continue to deny statehood.

Even if the US get involved in Iran to help topple the Islamists, they won't be saying that Iran can't have sovereignty long term. Whereas Israel go in and topple Hamas, butcher innocents in their thousands and then say to all the people living there that they can't have their own country. Which is why Israel receive a fair amount of criticism. Or as you say, get labelled the 'bad guy' 😃

You make a fair point though, Trump is such a tosser that even when he does do something that deserves praise he rarely receives it. 

If Trump's administration manage to strike the regime in a way that allows for a peaceful transition to democracy then I'll be the first to praise him. It's a risky game though. We don't yet know the long term implications of striking the regime and if it will help create more stability in the region. 

Thats Never going  to happen, the same way Hamas can’t be toppled without innocents getting dead. I’m guessing you know this. 

[kent_white]

59 minutes ago, royal white said:

And here lies the problem, America had a bounty on Venezuelas President for years, numerous presidents have said he needs to go. Trump went in and got rid and now hes classed as the bad guy.

 

Same with Hamas, people have been saying for years they need to go, yet nothing was done, Israel Finally went in and guess who the bad guy is. 
 

Now iran, what’s going to happen? Reports are nearly a 1000 dead in a couple of weeks. If no one goes in to help that number will Increase and the regime will likely stay the same. If Trump sends the yanks in who’s going to be the bad guy?  

Well there's no comparison between the two really. You've seen nothing like the outcry about Maduro that you did about Palestine. Because no civilians have been killed in the process. It was fairly quick and fairly clean, barring some dead Cuban soldiers.

I doubt that will be the case if the US decide to put boots on the ground in Iran. Which I don't think will happen. I don't think he wants to get his 'hands dirty' and I don't think he's interested in a fight he can't win with ease. 

But I do reckon he'll hit a few military installations within days. 

Mind you - every time he reaches a point where I don't think he will go any more extreme he tends to surprise me. 

So he'll probably nuke Tehran now. 

[royal white]

9 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Well there's no comparison between the two really. You've seen nothing like the outcry about Maduro that you did about Palestine. Because no civilians have been killed in the process. It was fairly quick and fairly clean, barring some dead Cuban soldiers.

I doubt that will be the case if the US decide to put boots on the ground in Iran. Which I don't think will happen. I don't think he wants to get his 'hands dirty' and I don't think he's interested in a fight he can't win with ease. 

But I do reckon he'll hit a few military installations within days. 

Mind you - every time he reaches a point where I don't think he will go any more extreme he tends to surprise me. 

So he'll probably nuke Tehran now. 

There were demonstrations around the world criticising Trump and telling him to stay out in Venezuela. 

[London Wanderer]

15 minutes ago, royal white said:

Thats Never going  to happen, the same way Hamas can’t be toppled without innocents getting dead. I’m guessing you know this. 

Aye it would be potential carnage.

My bet is the horrific regime will still be in power in a year. Unless there is a plan for boots on the ground. 

[London Wanderer]

19 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Well there's no comparison between the two really. You've seen nothing like the outcry about Maduro that you did about Palestine. Because no civilians have been killed in the process. It was fairly quick and fairly clean, barring some dead Cuban soldiers.

I doubt that will be the case if the US decide to put boots on the ground in Iran. Which I don't think will happen. I don't think he wants to get his 'hands dirty' and I don't think he's interested in a fight he can't win with ease. 

But I do reckon he'll hit a few military installations within days. 

Mind you - every time he reaches a point where I don't think he will go any more extreme he tends to surprise me. 

So he'll probably nuke Tehran now. 

There have been some very odd comparisons today.

[royal white]

25 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

There have been some very odd comparisons today.

They’re not comparisons, they’re examples. 

[gonzo]

Thing is there are a lot worse leaders or dictators currently in charge than the mon in Venezuela.

There's only one reason he went in there.

 

[kent_white]

8 hours ago, royal white said:

There were demonstrations around the world criticising Trump and telling him to stay out in Venezuela. 

I know there were. But I don't think they were as vociferous or as sustained as the outcry about what happened in Gaza. And barring a meltdown or civil war in Venezuela, or an unknown development - I imagine it will be chip shop paper within a few weeks. 

And again. I don't think anybody is going to be crying over Maduro being toppled or Hamas being removed. It's the relative costs to innocent human beings that bothered me. 

Same with Iran - if it can be done without huge bloodshed and the Iranian people are on board - then I imagine most if not all of us would say that's a positive thing for Iran, the region and the world. But that's a huge if. And I don't know enough about the realities on the ground to even say whether it's possible or not. And I just want them to get it right. 

[royal white]

17 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I know there were. But I don't think they were as vociferous or as sustained as the outcry about what happened in Gaza. And barring a meltdown or civil war in Venezuela, or an unknown development - I imagine it will be chip shop paper within a few weeks. 

And again. I don't think anybody is going to be crying over Maduro being toppled or Hamas being removed. It's the relative costs to innocent human beings that bothered me. 

Same with Iran - if it can be done without huge bloodshed and the Iranian people are on board - then I imagine most if not all of us would say that's a positive thing for Iran, the region and the world. But that's a huge if. And I don't know enough about the realities on the ground to even say whether it's possible or not. And I just want them to get it right. 

As above, Im not comparing I’m giving examples. Maduro has been on the yank radar for years and no one  batted an eye lid, when someone finally did something the usuals were out demonstrating and the usual MPs were criticising him. 

Edited January 13 by royal white

[bolty58]

9 hours ago, kent_white said:

So he'll probably nuke Tehran now. 

If he does, I'll by a season ticket at the DMB's.

Both equally as preposterous.

[bolty58]

9 hours ago, royal white said:

There were demonstrations around the world criticising Trump and telling him to stay out in Venezuela. 

Seems there are more than that imbecile Corbyn around the world who had Chavez and Maduro on thrones of worship in the socialist Valhalla which has tortured and killed over 20,000 people and forced over 8 million to flee.

[bolty58]

31 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I know there were. But I don't think they were as vociferous or as sustained as the outcry about what happened in Gaza. And barring a meltdown or civil war in Venezuela, or an unknown development - I imagine it will be chip shop paper within a few weeks. 

And again. I don't think anybody is going to be crying over Maduro being toppled or Hamas being removed. It's the relative costs to innocent human beings that bothered me. 

Same with Iran - if it can be done without huge bloodshed and the Iranian people are on board - then I imagine most if not all of us would say that's a positive thing for Iran, the region and the world. But that's a huge if. And I don't know enough about the realities on the ground to even say whether it's possible or not. And I just want them to get it right. 

And I just want them to get it done. By whatever means necessary.

[kent_white]

24 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

If he does, I'll by a season ticket at the DMB's.

Both equally as preposterous.

That was said firmly with tongue in cheek, clearly! 😉

[kent_white]

20 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

And I just want them to get it done. By whatever means necessary.

Fair enough. I can see why that might be the case.