Run-in

[Johnnyrotten]

6 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Assuming we don’t catch Lincoln I’m not fussed where we finish in the play offs as long as we do and frankly I can’t see us not doing but however we do it we just have to get our strikers firing. Missing so many chances must hit their confidence so hopefully in the remaining games we can improve on that. I don’t know what they do in training but for me some shooting practise and just making sure they at least hit the target should be on the menu every single day. Forget the worldies just make the keeper work.

Beggars can't be choosers but I can see us having an away game 1st leg and it being relatively flat as they often are, at Huddersfield, Bradford or Stockport.

That same game in a 2nd leg with the scores inevitably either level or 1 goal either way, and it becomes a very different proposition, with us having about 1k tickets and them having a full house ramping up the atmosphere.  We don't travel well at the best of times (except at Huddersfield granted).

It would be an opportunity lost if we didn't reverse that and get the obvious advantage of this team playing at home when the result really matters.

And if it goes to extra time, an extra 30 minutes and possible penalties in our stadium rather than their's has to be better.

[Whitesince63]

56 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

I am not because i think we can get a draw at either Bradford or Stockport and do the business at home.....We will have the added bonus of ACD and Forss back and hopefully we will have some very hungry forwards by then

My concern and it has been all season is our defenders being caught up front and gifting easy goals......At times we have played 2/4/4 this season as our full backs have pushed on past the wingers and at certain points ie when we get a corner we only have Desmond back defending......SS still has us too gung-ho

Yes I’m with you on that Masi if we had 3 at the back, Toal, Forino, Johnston we don’t need full backs to push on if we have wingers doing it. Even with Johnston at Left Back I thought we’ve looked more stable. I do like Conway but defensively he is a weakness. I think SS needs to pick his games for when we can be a bit more expansive or change it during play when needed from the bench. 

[Whitesince63]

8 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Beggars can't be choosers but I can see us having an away game 1st leg and it being relatively flat as they often are, at Huddersfield, Bradford or Stockport.

That same game in a 2nd leg with the scores inevitably either level or 1 goal either way, and it becomes a very different proposition, with us having about 1k tickets and them having a full house ramping up the atmosphere.  We don't travel well at the best of times (except at Huddersfield granted).

It would be an opportunity lost if we didn't reverse that and get the obvious advantage of this team playing at home when the result really matters.

And if it goes to extra time, an extra 30 minutes and possible penalties in our stadium rather than their's has to be better.

I see that JR but it didn’t help us with Barnsley did it and very nearly cost us. I’d be confident of beating any of the likely contenders over two legs whether we’re home or away first. Sometimes there’s less pressure from an expectant home crowd when you’re away. As I say I don’t much care where we finish as long as it’s top six but since we’re going to overhaul Lincoln anyway it’s probably academic. 😁

[Didledee]

I would not trust this team atm going into an away 2nd leg - if we didn't have a big lead, not once have we won by more than 1 all season, performances are like a roller coaster, nick a point at Lincoln, should have smashed AFC Wimbledon 1st half, completely different 2nd half, dominated Wigan and Reading and got 4 points, but only a goalkeeper mistake (Sheehan) and a last minute equaliser (Burstow) got us them, 2 moments that lasted about 1 minute or so in total in 180 minutes +

All this could change come the playoffs (if we are in them) but it would be nice to see us for perhaps only for a few times to prove we can actually win with comfort, I'm not asking for when we went to Oldham in the Cup and could have doubled our 6 goals, but for a third placed team, you'd think there would have been a period in the season were it's not been anything but a struggle, once we get say a 2-0, 3-0 etc away from home, I think it'll mentally help so this group so much. I don't care if we win 1-0 all season btw or if we go up not winning by more at all, but It would be nice to be relaxed now and again lol, we have our star player coming back at the end, perhaps this talk is too premature.

[Hoppy]

I would fancy us in any 2 leg game I think we are quite capable of getting a draw away with any of the teams around us first and getting a win in the home game second then free for all at Wembley as we know but if Lincoln have a wobble we must take advantage I reckon we will have a good idea in 5 games time where we are at and plan accordingly 

[Johnnyrotten]

13 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

I see that JR but it didn’t help us with Barnsley did it and very nearly cost us. I’d be confident of beating any of the likely contenders over two legs whether we’re home or away first. Sometimes there’s less pressure from an expectant home crowd when you’re away. As I say I don’t much care where we finish as long as it’s top six but since we’re going to overhaul Lincoln anyway it’s probably academic. 😁

TBH I thought the Barnsley game underlined the home advantage thing if anything.  We were absolutely hanging on but the atmosphere was in our favour and we clung on.  If that last 20 minutes or whatever had been at a full Oakwell with them attacking their end, I wouldn't see this team hanging on.  And if it had gone to extra time, again I'd still have backed us at home more than at Oakwell.

And I could be wrong but I think its easier to win the away leg when its the 1st game, with the intensity not the same, and I thought we took advantage of that to kill the atmosphere 1st half.  It didn't feel like one of those away legs where they're all bang up for it throwing the kitchen sink at us, compared to the 2nd leg at Oakwell the previous season. 

[Ratwhite]

31 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Beggars can't be choosers but I can see us having an away game 1st leg and it being relatively flat as they often are, at Huddersfield, Bradford or Stockport.

That same game in a 2nd leg with the scores inevitably either level or 1 goal either way, and it becomes a very different proposition, with us having about 1k tickets and them having a full house ramping up the atmosphere.  We don't travel well at the best of times (except at Huddersfield granted).

It would be an opportunity lost if we didn't reverse that and get the obvious advantage of this team playing at home when the result really matters.

And if it goes to extra time, an extra 30 minutes and possible penalties in our stadium rather than their's has to be better.

We actually perform OK away.

Just don't score!

[Johnnyrotten]

6 minutes ago, Hoppy said:

I would fancy us in any 2 leg game I think we are quite capable of getting a draw away with any of the teams around us first and getting a win in the home game second then free for all at Wembley as we know but if Lincoln have a wobble we must take advantage I reckon we will have a good idea in 5 games time where we are at and plan accordingly 

Well there's nothing we can do but hope, same as everyone else.  Stockport won't fear anyone, and Bradford have done the double over Stockport, won at Cardiff, drawn comfortably at Bolton, they will all be confident going into the play offs.  Knowing how low scoring our games are, it will probably come down to a worldy from someone like Sarcevic or ACD or the keeper fumbling a cross and us bundling in an injury time goal as at Reading.  In the lap of the gods given how hard we find scoring against the better teams.  We all know its not going to be straight forward!

[Johnnyrotten]

11 minutes ago, Ratwhite said:

We actually perform OK away.

Just don't score!

You're being selective there, we've had some horror shows.

Played well at Huddersfield, Wigan, Wimbledon and Reading.  A decent half hour here and there a few other times, but didn't deserve to win any other than v 10 men.

Its painful to think of some of the others, the reason we weren't scoring is we weren't playing well.

[masi 51]

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Yes I’m with you on that Masi if we had 3 at the back, Toal, Forino, Johnston we don’t need full backs to push on if we have wingers doing it. Even with Johnston at Left Back I thought we’ve looked more stable. I do like Conway but defensively he is a weakness. I think SS needs to pick his games for when we can be a bit more expansive or change it during play when needed from the bench. 

I do not know why SS cannot see it, would make us stronger at the back and allow us the luxury of having a extra man in midfield even playing two wingers.

We must have conceded double figure goals this season from long punts with our defence in the attacking half.

Playing three centre backs would solve that if we only allowed Firino freedom to go up for corners. We now have both Dalby and Kenny to attack the ball from a corner Throw in Firino its more than enough.

Edited February 19 by masi 51

[desperado]

23 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

I do not know why SS cannot see it, would make us stronger at the back and allow us the luxury of having a extra man in midfield even playing two wingers.

We must have conceded double figure goals this season from long punts with our defence in the attacking half.

Playing three centre backs would solve that if we only allowed Firino freedom to go up for corners. We now have both Dalby and Kenny to attack the ball from a corner Throw in Firino its more than enough.

I’m not sure why him not using 5 at the back on Tuesday means he is somehow blinkered to not seeing things you are seeing.

His comments below suggests he sees and considers a lot more than what you think. He’s simply just ensuring we remain high on chances created while not giving up much at the back.

 “But as I said, from a coach's point of view, I don’t think we can design gameplans much better than we are. Everything that we said was going to happen, happened. We got into areas where we felt we could hurt Reading.

“We got in loads of times. They only had two shots on our goal on target. But we've come away with one point instead of three, so it is frustrating.

“Sometimes there's not too much you can do about it.”

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

That sounds fair enough.

Defending wasn't as issue on Tuesday. 

[masi 51]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

I’m not sure why him not using 5 at the back on Tuesday means he is somehow blinkered to not seeing things you are seeing.

His comments below suggests he sees and considers a lot more than what you think. He’s simply just ensuring we remain high on chances created while not giving up much at the back.

 

 “But as I said, from a coach's point of view, I don’t think we can design gameplans much better than we are. Everything that we said was going to happen, happened. We got into areas where we felt we could hurt Reading.

“We got in loads of times. They only had two shots on our goal on target. But we've come away with one point instead of three, so it is frustrating.

“Sometimes there's not too much you can do about it.”

 

we are talking about playing three centre backs and no full backs/wing backs more a 3/4/3 looks very attack minded on paper but it gives the defence more of a solid look as they have no need to be in the opposition half or walking out of defence with the ball. Throw Conway on the left side of midfield Sheehan/Erhahon central and TuTu Right.

One winger and Kenny/Dalby up front

Job done

[desperado]

29 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

we are talking about playing three centre backs and no full backs/wing backs more a 3/4/3 looks very attack minded on paper but it gives the defence more of a solid look as they have no need to be in the opposition half or walking out of defence with the ball. Throw Conway on the left side of midfield Sheehan/Erhahon central and TuTu Right.

One winger and Kenny/Dalby up front

Job done

Sounds very similar to what we did against Wigan.

[masi 51]

11 minutes ago, desperado said:

Sounds very similar to what we did against Wigan.

Well that was a rare away clean sheet and a away win. I would have both Tutu, Conway focussing on attacking and not defending and instruct our centre backs not to cross the half way line bar Firino when we have a corner........Against Reading we had Johnston and Firino up for corners and desmond defending on his own

[desperado]

52 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Well that was a rare away clean sheet and an away win. I would have both Tutu, Conway focussing on attacking and not defending and instruct our centre backs not to cross the half way line bar Firino when we have a corner........Against Reading we had Johnston and Firino up for corners and desmond defending on his own

So something he has done before. Hardly in the category of “I do not know why SS cannot see it”

[jmjhb]

1 hour ago, masi 51 said:

we are talking about playing three centre backs and no full backs/wing backs more a 3/4/3 looks very attack minded on paper but it gives the defence more of a solid look as they have no need to be in the opposition half or walking out of defence with the ball. Throw Conway on the left side of midfield Sheehan/Erhahon central and TuTu Right.

One winger and Kenny/Dalby up front

Job done

Will changing the formation mean we suddenly stop missing sitters? I suspect not.

[Rival Son]

Just now, jmjhb said:

Will changing the formation mean we suddenly stop missing sitters? I suspect not.

Hole in one. We are bossing teams, dominating possession and creating lots of chances. The problem is the finishing:  weak, wayward, and nervous attempts at goal.

i wonder if Schumacher was asked who is the finishing coach, what the answer would be. I suspect we don’t have one. If we do, he needs to be questioned.

We don’t need to change formation. We just need to be more clinical in front of goal.

[Wanderlust]

It’s an interesting conundrum the 3 CBs thing. Personally I prefer it from a defensive perspective given this squad, but it begs the question where do we sacrifice the extra body to accommodate it?

If we stick with a WB and winger on both sides that leaves only 3 slots in the centre for midfield and attack, and we know we need firepower up top - I’d suggest Dalby +1 (Kenny for me) leaving 1 central midfielder spot - a very soft centre. But we always have 2 minimum, so the sacrifice would be wide. And this squad is very heavy with wide players plus the transfer window tells us SS is invested in playing 2 wide men which makes sense on the wider pitches like ours and Readings - and why SS goes with just 2 CBs on such pitches.
Seems to me we need different systems for different pitches and situations and SS recognises that and also switches things around in game if the opposition are targeting certain areas so I think he’s doing a decent job tactically, because it is a fact that there is risk and weakness in any system.

If the opposition exploit a weakness, fans are all over it, blaming the individuals who have been exposed by it rather than applauding the opposition for working out how to hurt us on any given day.

However, the risks SS chooses to take are always geared to us attacking and he backs our forwards to take their chances even if it means being light at the back at times. So far we haven’t been ruthless enough in front of goal but I’m hopeful that when the new lads get bedded in it will improve and if we’re scoring, the occasional exposure at the back will become increasingly irrelevant.

If we can get a lead we have the players to defend it if needed - say in a playoff game - by going narrower with 3 at the back and chucking in Demps and/or Simons in to bolster midfield. We can build a wall.

But unfortunately we have to take defensive risks to get leads to defend in the first place, and every time we miss chances our risk increases and that’s been our undoing too often this season.

 

[Traf]

20 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Will changing the formation mean we suddenly stop missing sitters? I suspect not.

 

14 minutes ago, Rival Son said:

We don’t need to change formation. We just need to be more clinical in front of goal.

Yep, it's hardly rocket salad. Stop wasting chances and you win more games.

[Zico]

we will win the play off final in injury time

[Zico]

or lose it

[thebells]

At roughly this stage last season, Wycombe had a 5 point lead over Wrexham. By the end of the season they finished 8 points behind, a 13 point swing. 

Nothing is done yet. In fact there’s a quarter of the season left. On the 15th December, we were effectively level with Lincoln (would have gone ahead of them had we won the game in hand). So the current gap they’ve developed has happened over the last 12 games. 

With 13 to go, there’s no reason it can’t be over hauled. Of course, if your glass is half empty, you’ll believe it won’t happen. 

Personally, I think there’s a chance. But I think we’re competing who Stockport to catch them, so even if they are caught, no guarantees it’s us who wins that race. 

[Zico]

1 hour ago, thebells said:

At roughly this stage last season, Wycombe had a 5 point lead over Wrexham. By the end of the season they finished 8 points behind, a 13 point swing. 

Nothing is done yet. In fact there’s a quarter of the season left.

aye, when you look at like that, we're not even at the run-in stage yet, plenty can happen

[masi 51]

6 hours ago, desperado said:

So something he has done before. Hardly in the category of “I do not know why SS cannot see it”

No it is not in the Wigan game we employed Conway as left back and TuTu on the right more as wing backs with three centre backs. Toal,Firino and Johnson all push up at corners and the three centre backs are all encouraged to come out with the ball.

We need to play with three at the back who stay at the back, be a little more direct and let Conway and Tutu pin there full backs into defensive positions.......We have played two wingers and one forward away from home most of the season and defenders who like to move forward all season

We concede mainly due to our defenders being out of position time and time again. Throw Firino forward at corners but Toal and Johnston are a liability once they cross the half way line