gonzo Posted March 31 Posted March 31 Fucki ell I feel like I'm back on twitter every time there was a note from the chairman. Wake me up in May for the parade. Quote
Zog1 Posted March 31 Posted March 31 (edited) 13 minutes ago, gonzo said: You do know every single football club loses money and is debt bar a very extreme few? You think it's easy running a club our size on the pittance of league 1 football? You think our losses are purely down to keeping Evatt 3 months too long? No we kept him 2 seasons too long arguably, 2.5 seasons too long. The reason this is even a discussion on here is because we're not in the automatics, and the chance of getting in them is basically now impossible. The reason we're not up there for me lays just like it did Evatt, solely with tactics, Lincoln play the same 4231 we do, with similar possession based football, but the tactics are different. This is the reason we'll finish the season with well over 1000 shots (more than anyone else) and we're 9th in goals scored. The tactic of relying on ACD etc to score wondergoals is like i said in November when everyone on here was calling him the second coming of Christ, unreliable. I was right then and im still right now. Edited March 31 by Zog1 Quote
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31 Posted March 31 2-2.5 seasons too long? So thats Jan 23 back to Aug 22. So you are saying you would have potted him for not going up first season in league 1? Jeez Quote
gonzo Posted March 31 Posted March 31 9 minutes ago, Zog1 said: No we kept him 2 seasons too long arguably, 2.5 seasons too long. The reason this is even a discussion on here is because we're not in the automatics, and the chance of getting in them is basically now impossible. The reason we're not up there for me lays just like it did Evatt, solely with tactics, Lincoln play the same 4231 we do, with similar possession based football, but the tactics are different. This is the reason we'll finish the season with well over 1000 shots (more than anyone else) and we're 9th in goals scored. The tactic of relying on ACD etc to score wondergoals is like i said in November when everyone on here was calling him the second coming of Christ, unreliable. I was right then and im still right now. We will see in May 👍 Quote
Zog1 Posted March 31 Posted March 31 2 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said: 2-2.5 seasons too long? So thats Jan 23 back to Aug 22. So you are saying you would have potted him for not going up first season in league 1? Jeez No, I'd have potted him for us not finishing in the play offs and for his National League level ability. Don't forget we only just scraped by into the automatics in League Two. Quote
jmjhb Posted March 31 Posted March 31 (edited) After the playoffs in 24 was the right time for him to go. Mind you I wanted him gone earlier but it was based on his off the field stuff and not on the pitch Edited March 31 by jmjhb Quote
Ani Posted March 31 Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Zog1 said: It doesn't take an accountant to know £13 million a year losses is unsustainable long term. Just because I said cunt do not think it was aimed at you Quote
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31 Posted March 31 7 minutes ago, Zog1 said: No, I'd have potted him for us not finishing in the play offs and for his National League level ability. Don't forget we only just scraped by into the automatics in League Two. I was sick to the back teeth of him and his teeth and his expensively assembled sock down mincers by the end but bloody hell. Yes we did only scrape through but the improvement came with Evatts signings - we started the season with Phoenix's mob - Jak Hickman, Reiss Greenidge, Brandon Comeley et al ffs. Quote
gonzo Posted March 31 Posted March 31 6 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said: I was sick to the back teeth of him and his teeth and his expensively assembled sock down mincers by the end but bloody hell. Yes we did only scrape through but the improvement came with Evatts signings - we started the season with Phoenix's mob - Jak Hickman, Reiss Greenidge, Brandon Comeley et al ffs. He just rewrites history to suit his own narrative and hindsight clouded thinking. I've yet to hear his plan to cut the losses. Or is it just win more games with better tactics? Quote
Eddie Posted March 31 Posted March 31 Ouch - not pretty reading. But, we lost shed loads of money just from the normal day to day running of the business and the powers that be still decided to throw £3.7m at new players (we did recoup £1.4m so net £2.3m outlay) - tells you something. Anyone that thinks us going up solves it is unfortunately wrong. @Cheese is spot on with the golden egg analogy and @gonzo is right that we’re no different to 95% of other clubs in that we’re not sustainable. If we were to go up then we’d have a bit more revenue from tv and probably a 10-15% increase on revenue from everything match day related (£2m ish) - that would all get swallowed by higher wages, and probably more so. But we’d be more attractive because we’re only 1 lucky season away from the pot of gold. The only way we will ever be sustainably run is to trade players well. Either buy low and sell high or develop saleable assets through the academy - and that needs to be to the tune of £10-12m profit every year to be considered sustainable. We’ve proven over decades that we’re shit at that, so the chance of it changing to that degree is unbelievably low. Even if we did, constantly selling our best talent to generate those profits and just keep the lights on would be hated by the fan base. Football makes zero financial sense. It’s an industry built off irrationality, hope and ego - some win but the majority lose but there seems to be plenty of daft bastards that are willing to swap in for those losing to see if they can make it work. Quote
Zog1 Posted March 31 Posted March 31 (edited) The structure of the club is built around buying/ developing players and selling them, in a model similar to Brighton. It's why Fergal wants us back at a Cat 2 academy. The issue is we can't really do this in League 1 and chase promotion at the same time, because our fixed costs are too high. The only clubs willing to spend the amount of money we need only exist in the PL and Championship, and as a league 1 team even if you had the next Beckham, they don't want to take a risk spending the £10-20 million we'd need even if he was a generational talent for us, but they're much more likely if that same player was playing in the Championship. This is why we got 600k for Dion Charles, and not the 6 million we got for Gary Madine. This club can't afford to operate this business model in League 1. It can in the Championship. Edited March 31 by Zog1 Quote
Roger_Dubuis Posted March 31 Posted March 31 3 hours ago, gonzo said: Wanderers spent close to £3.75m on players including John McAtee, Szabi Schon, Joel Randall, Jordi Osei-Tutu and Klaidi Lolos Absolutely fucking criminal those signings. Up there with the abyss of Coyle/Freedman era on throwing money down the drain. Terrible recruitment. Good job weve got good investors. Those kind of signings can bankrupt a club. The league winners spent £15 million on Jay Stansfield that season.Wonder how much their losses were Quote
Traf Posted March 31 Posted March 31 4 hours ago, gonzo said: What's your solution then Mr accountant? Stop losing money. Simples. Quote
perth_white Posted April 1 Posted April 1 I'm just glad Sluffy and Custard have fucked off, I can imagine the 50 page thread of those two were still here. Quote
gonzo Posted April 1 Posted April 1 10 hours ago, Zog1 said: The structure of the club is built around buying/ developing players and selling them, in a model similar to Brighton. It's why Fergal wants us back at a Cat 2 academy. The issue is we can't really do this in League 1 and chase promotion at the same time, because our fixed costs are too high. The only clubs willing to spend the amount of money we need only exist in the PL and Championship, and as a league 1 team even if you had the next Beckham, they don't want to take a risk spending the £10-20 million we'd need even if he was a generational talent for us, but they're much more likely if that same player was playing in the Championship. This is why we got 600k for Dion Charles, and not the 6 million we got for Gary Madine. This club can't afford to operate this business model in League 1. It can in the Championship. Have wee look at the championship club losses. Or other clubs up and down the pyramid. Carlisle lost £5.2m last year. Not all debt is unmanageable. I'd be interested to see this year's accounts given the business done in the summer. The headline looks terrible. And it's clearly not a sustainable business but that's just football in its entirety unless you have billionaire owners. And even they run at losses. Quote
L/H White Posted April 1 Posted April 1 i'll find the video, but i'm sure championship clubs lose more than any Quote
gonzo Posted April 1 Posted April 1 19 minutes ago, L/H White said: i'll find the video, but i'm sure championship clubs lose more than any It's a complete money pit mate and we are just no different from anyone else. Fleetwood Town lose over £5m a season. The problems arise when someone decides they want to cover those losses any more. Like Eddie and Ken did. We have no inclination that FV and the others are going to suddenly stop covering the losses. We've seen this summer we've been more shrewd in the transfer market to help shrink the outgoings. Smatterings on loans and players nobody else wants plus making profits on Collins and GT. That will help this year's accounts and looks a more balanced model than throwing millions at wankers like Randall. The bollocks Zog posts above about following the Brigton model is absolutely for the birds. We are beg stealing and borrowing what we can to get out of this division. The academy is lightyears away from producing any tangible assets. The longer we stay in this division the more the playing sqaud will decrease in ability and value. This is where the recruitment team need to earn their coin. They've not been a million miles off it this season. Quote
Eddie Posted April 1 Posted April 1 31 minutes ago, L/H White said: i'll find the video, but i'm sure championship clubs lose more than any 2 reasons 1 - clubs relegated from the prem lose a ridiculous amount of revenue overnight whilst the cost base (players wages) is generally fixed over a longer term and therefore can’t be aligned to the revenue loss. Parachute payments help but there’s still a massive drop. 2 - you’re 1 season away from the value of your business increasing 10 fold (ie promotion to the prem). It means owners will take bigger risks and be willing to throw more at it because the promised land is in touching distance. We will lose more money in the Championship - excluding player sales. But, we’re a more attractive and valuable proposition just by being 1 step further up the ladder. Quote
Zog1 Posted April 1 Posted April 1 Our total cost excluding transfers are basically in line with PNE, Blackburn and a load of others in the Championship, they're 3x likes of Mansfield Town and many others in League 1. If we get promotion to the Championship, atleast it would give us the chance of being somewhere close to sustainable. In league 1 it doesn't exist for us, our costs are too high, just running our stadium alone, while a small part of our costs, would represent a decent chunk of the total cost for some clubs in this league. Many on here, like the ****s on X need a reality check. Quote
gonzo Posted April 1 Posted April 1 6 minutes ago, Zog1 said: Our total cost excluding transfers are basically in line with PNE, Blackburn and a load of others in the Championship, they're 3x likes of Mansfield Town and many others in League 1. If we get promotion to the Championship, atleast it would give us the chance of being somewhere close to sustainable. In league 1 it doesn't exist for us, our costs are too high, just running our stadium alone, while a small part of our costs, would represent a decent chunk of the total cost for some clubs in this league. Many on here, like the ****s on X need a reality check. You're acting like people don't know this. Like you're some fucking genius that's figured out what's wrong with the club. Do you not think everyone knows this and the club and investors have some form of plan to balance between losing dosh, massive operating costs and making an assault on promotion? Who do you actually think you are? Quote
Zog1 Posted April 1 Posted April 1 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: You're acting like people don't know this. Based on your comments...YOU don't know this. Quote
gonzo Posted April 1 Posted April 1 17 minutes ago, Zog1 said: Based on your comments...YOU don't know this. What comments? You think I think I think losing gazillions a season is OK? Course it's not. But we are in the basket case of English football. Every single qpclub loses millions per year. It's how those loses are covered and offset. We are way too big for this division, especially with our humongous operating costs. But the the holy grail isn't the championship, we'd lose just as much money up there. 97% of our turnover is wages. Think that will magically dissappear if we go up? Debt is debt, losses are losses, if they are manageable and there's an ongoing plan for them it's really no massive issue. Until FV decide they don't want to cover the losses and debts any longer, which imo doesn't look like any time soon. Tactics dont solve a club losing money hand over fist. The problem is the beast of the English pyramid that's been created. I owe my mortgage company a six figure sum. I might start crying and kill myself today. Quote
L/H White Posted April 1 Posted April 1 55 minutes ago, gonzo said: What comments? You think I think I think losing gazillions a season is OK? Course it's not. But we are in the basket case of English football. Every single qpclub loses millions per year. It's how those loses are covered and offset. We are way too big for this division, especially with our humongous operating costs. But the the holy grail isn't the championship, we'd lose just as much money up there. 97% of our turnover is wages. Think that will magically dissappear if we go up? Debt is debt, losses are losses, if they are manageable and there's an ongoing plan for them it's really no massive issue. Until FV decide they don't want to cover the losses and debts any longer, which imo doesn't look like any time soon. Tactics dont solve a club losing money hand over fist. The problem is the beast of the English pyramid that's been created. I owe my mortgage company a six figure sum. I might start crying and kill myself today. can you wait until after the marathon? Quote
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