That second half performance against a relegated team who would shy out of any 50/50 due to a pending cup final was arse - and I don't care if it was a end of season nothing to play for match.

Dismal yesterday and a great advert for not getting a season ticket, no passion from our players or fans, outsing by 150 Pompey fans. However we are safe and I feel more positive with Coyle at the helm although judging by the team changes at half time by grant and not countered by Coyle he has a lot too learn. Finally it cannot be proven but with the negativity around Megson I think we just might have gone down. For next season we need a marquee type of signing to waken the fans and club out of the slumber we seem to be in, I really hope that man is Eidur Gudjohnsenn.

 

Not this again

My apologies. The spurs game I'd taken as a draw was, in fact, a cup game. I retract my smug comment to Sluffy.

It wasn't a whinge - it was a statement of fact.

 

Megson's and Coyle's points per game - after 18 games each - is identical.

 

(In fact our Goal Difference is slightly worse under Coyle than it was under Megson).

Edited April 25, 201016 yr by Sluffy

Apology gratefully accepted Micky.

 

Thanks.

OK, in Janaury, if someone had said:

 

"Coyle will have you safe with 2 games to go"

 

What would have you said?

 

This is not Coyle's personnel, he's tightened up the defence. And yes, there are still issues and there have been poor performances along the way, but we are safe.

 

In summary, stop whinging.

 

Equally if someone had said Megson - carrying on the way he had been doing (points per game basis)- "will have you safe with two games to go" (and that he would lose a 2-0 lead at home to Portsmouth - and play what as been described by the BBC as "Woefully" in our last match.

 

What would you (and hundreds others) have said?

 

As for Coyle tightening up the defence - he actually has a worse Goal Difference record than Megson (for this season)!

 

I'm not whinging - I'm just stating what the points per games are that our two respective managers have achieved this season.

Equally if someone had said Megson - carrying on the way he had been doing (points per game basis)- "will have you safe with two games to go" (and that he would lose a 2-0 lead at home to Portsmouth - and play what as been described by the BBC as "Woefully" in our last match.

 

What would you (and hundreds others) have said?

 

As for Coyle tightening up the defence - he actually has a worse Goal Difference record than Megson (for this season)!

 

I'm not whinging - I'm just stating what the points per games are that our two respective managers have achieved this season.

 

 

the difference is Megson had built a team and was producing that, Coyle has come in with a couple of loan signing and tried to change the whole way the team plays mid season taking them out of the comfort zone and has achieved the same as Megson. Coyle has done the job he was asked to do for this season and once he has the opportunity to get rid of some of the dead wood and bring in his own style of player I think its going to be a different story and i for one am looking forward to see what the club can do next season.

Isn't being a better manager about getting more out of the same resources as the previous manager had to work with though?

 

Don't get me wrong - it was right for Megson to go and I'm delighted we got Coyle - and yes I know Megson's 18 matches and Coyle's 18 were not identical - but I did expect a bit better if I'm honest.

 

I was once taught that when you interview someone - and they were particularly bad - that you had to be very careful how you assessed the next candidate you interviewed.

 

That person might actually be just an average candidate but might actually appear better to you simply because you were comparing them in your mind to the previous one who was spectacularly bad.

 

I'm not saying Coyle is average but some facts -

 

For all his more positive footballing outlook - we have scored less goals under him than Megson - and have a worse Goal Difference than Megson.

 

He has only ever won two away Premiership games - the Stoke one being somewhat lucky - as match reports state that we were 'woeful' and 'outplayed' for most of the game.

 

He did lose a 2-0 lead against a Portsmouth side who have one eye on the Cup Final and whose players certainly did not want to get injured or suspended from it - and hence were probably playing to their maximum.

 

He has stated his believe in Elmander - and has since dropped him!

 

I could go on but would only appear to be negative if I did - which I am not.

 

I'm simply trying to put his achievements so far into some prospective and not get carried away like some may have.

Equally if someone had said Megson - carrying on the way he had been doing (points per game basis)- "will have you safe with two games to go" (and that he would lose a 2-0 lead at home to Portsmouth - and play what as been described by the BBC as "Woefully" in our last match.

 

What would you (and hundreds others) have said?

 

As for Coyle tightening up the defence - he actually has a worse Goal Difference record than Megson (for this season)!

 

I'm not whinging - I'm just stating what the points per games are that our two respective managers have achieved this season.

 

But the 18 games are very different. All you are doing is trying to be controversial. Megson has left, any facts are pointless!

the difference is Megson had built a team and was producing that, Coyle has come in with a couple of loan signing and tried to change the whole way the team plays mid season taking them out of the comfort zone and has achieved the same as Megson. Coyle has done the job he was asked to do for this season and once he has the opportunity to get rid of some of the dead wood and bring in his own style of player I think its going to be a different story and i for one am looking forward to see what the club can do next season.

 

so are we all getting on his back from here on in

so are we all getting on his back from here on in

 

you've highlighted that for your own benefit, No where did I say that anyone should be getting on his back at any time. Fact is Coyle was probably given the task for this season to keep us up and I don;t think what he has done so far should be compared or judged to a previous manager, I personally think we should see what he does over the summer and give him at least a season then have the debate about weather we expected more. Keeping us up this season was the best I hoped for no matter how he did it so in my opinion its a good job done.

But the 18 games are very different. All you are doing is trying to be controversial. Megson has left, any facts are pointless!

 

Different yes - very different no.

 

Megson had one game short of half a season - we played broadly each other Premiership in each half of the season. Yes Megson played Hull twice - but Coyle played Wigan twice.

 

Coyle has however played Arsenal twice.

 

As for facts being pointless - whats the point of having a Premiership table at all then - they are totally made up from the facts of how the games resulted in.

I firmly believe that coyle is no better than megson. The only improvement is fans relationship with the manager.

 

But continued shit results and that wil change. I hope not but it's inevitable.

 

I can't be arsed with the arguments at this stage of the season. So coyle has a clean slate from the start of next season.

 

Basically many fans need to appreciate anything above relegation zone is a bonus for a club like ourselves.

you've highlighted that for your own benefit, No where did I say that anyone should be getting on his back at any time.

 

like megson he did the job asked of him

 

 

spelled it out for you

 

the logical next step is that the abuse will begin

 

isn't it?

I firmly believe that coyle is no better than megson. The only improvement is fans relationship with the manager.

 

But continued shit results and that wil change. I hope not but it's inevitable.

 

I can't be arsed with the arguments at this stage of the season. So coyle has a clean slate from the start of next season.

 

Basically many fans need to appreciate anything above relegation zone is a bonus for a club like ourselves.

 

exactly

Was it just a sarcastic dig then? Them that know me know that I only 'moan' ,as you put it, when there is something to moan about. On the whole I am positive and get behind the team and managment when they need it most. If you are happy with below par performances from OC and the players because we seem safe in the Premiership then fine, I am not.

 

the reply wasnt a dig at anyone,im sure you do get behind the team like the majority of the bolton fans. i was just saying we do like a moan.

exactly

 

Nope not exactly

 

There's a contradiction in my eyes

 

Is keeping us not relegated

 

a) Job done

or

a bonus

 

Don't see how it can be both

 

Homer, by totally judging Coyle's talents as a manager now, you're in the same camp as those that had Megson judged before this season started...

 

Yes we can have some appreciation of his man mgt and tactics at this stage, but we don't know what he'll do with "his" team. After all, remember what Allardyce used to say when defending his tactics - you can only play with the resources you have...and Coyle has only been able to play football in whatever way, with a squad that was (when he took over)

 

Out of the habit of winning

had no self confidence

nervous (especially at home)

used to negative tactics

in a relegation scrap

desperate

 

Do you really think that however amazing the manager is, that all of that can be changed around immediately?

 

Now I aint saying OC is the man yet, but we shall see

 

Oh and his better "PR" is an important aspect of his job too, but that IS something he can be judged on immediately

 

PS. Homer I do see you will give OC a clean slate, but you're also already saying he's no better than Megson - who was given a summer to prepare....I'd say judge him at Xmas

Edited April 25, 201016 yr by jules_darby

Different yes - very different no.

 

Megson had one game short of half a season - we played broadly each other Premiership in each half of the season. Yes Megson played Hull twice - but Coyle played Wigan twice.

 

Coyle has however played Arsenal twice.

 

As for facts being pointless - whats the point of having a Premiership table at all then - they are totally made up from the facts of how the games resulted in.

Sluff, you know the respect I have for you, but there are relevant facts and not relevant facts.

 

That Megson got 18 from 18, as did Coyle, is not relevant.

 

That we were 2nd from bottom when Coyle was appointed (anointed?) and now we are safe in 14th is relevant.

Who gives a fuck about statistics, safe now move on let's see what happens next year

Edited April 25, 201016 yr by buckhurstwhite

Sluff, you know the respect I have for you, but there are relevant facts and not relevant facts.

 

That Megson got 18 from 18, as did Coyle, is not relevant.

 

That we were 2nd from bottom when Coyle was appointed (anointed?) and now we are safe in 14th is relevant.

 

The 18 points in Megson's half of the season were a poor 18 points because everyone else (except pompey) got 19+ points. Conversely, the 18 points gained during OC's tenure have been good points because a few teams around us gained less than 18.

 

Basically, the amount of points each manager won is relative to nothing except the points gained by our rivals.

The negativity on here is staggering, WE ARE SAFE. Yes, that's right S-A-F-E.

 

Coyle was brought in to keep his up and he's done that, it doesn't matter how or who with or whether he's improved things or not, he's done his job this season. Would Megson have kept us up? Well, we'll never know.

 

Has Coyle made improvements? OF course. Individually (Knight, Muamba, Ricketts, Robinson and to a certain extent Elmander, plus the signing of Wilshere) and as a team (actually keeping clean sheets, playing some better football, coming from behind against Stoke is something we hadn't done this season etc).

 

There are still problems all over the pitch (and in the squad) but Coyle has had NO time to fix this, he's no miracle worker, he's not going to suddenly turn a team in the bottom 3 into Barcelona which some people seem to expect in here.

 

We look more solid (at times) than we ever did under Megson, we lost leads under him too (Burnley, Hull, Spurs, Fulham, Man City plus on many occassions when we lost leads but came back to win which we almost did yesterday).

 

We also went to the likes of Sunderland and Blackburn and played poorly under both managers. I see a common constant running through this and that's the players, so therefore OC needs the summer to build up a team as much as he can. In his interview yesterday he indicated that the squad as a whole did not possess enough mental strength, if that's true then no manager can improve that, it's something a team has or doesn't have so new players may be needed to give the team some leadership/direction on the pitch.

I don't know about everyone, and I only speak for myself, but I was very worried when Megson was manager that we would go down, Coyle coming in gave the club and the fans a massive lift in confidence and belief. Results have not been great all the time under Coyle, but we have managed to survive for another season, after the Blackburn 3-0 away defeat things looked bad then, but Bolton have got results against teams we had to and that is why we are safe.

 

This team still have the mentality of Megson and even Allardyce, this is still in a way Megson's team, Yes Coyle brought in a few loans, but more a less it's the same players that have for a few years been struggling to stay up and been used to playing poor football and having the fans on their backs.

 

What Coyle has done has got the fans on his side, he will have the summer now to rest and build is own team, he will already have tried different ideas in training already, but considering we we're in a battle to survive, he isn't going to change that much, dunno if next season will bring what we all want, a season without worry of relegation and better football, but i'd rather take our chances with Coyle than a Megson kind of manager.

 

Both may have got the same points as each other, but there is no question we are better of now than we was at Christmas, forget Megson, he was a nice enough man, but his presnce and the hatred for him was a terrible thing for the club, we have survived and can look forward, yes we just drew 2-2 with Portsmouth, but how many times under Megson did we lose a 2-0 lead, it's not the 1st time under Coyle either, it's the players, they are not good enough, have a negative attitude when a goal is conceded and our defence is a joke.

 

Given time I think we will see a lot of change, and change that will bring a lot of happy memories, another season in the Prem is a great thing, I'm delighted I can watch the World Cup without having Bolton relegated in the back of my mind, after that 2-2 draw with Hull @ the Reebok, I'm sure many would have taken survival anyway anyhow.

We also went to the likes of Sunderland and Blackburn and played poorly under both managers.

 

We won 4-1 at Sunderland and drew 2-2 at Blackburn under Megson last season.

 

Coyle and his assistants have very little Premiership experience and haven't done badly.

 

Hope that they make some decent signings in the close season on a permanent basis.

 

Hungry young players that we can upgrade and something to prove is what I would like to see.

 

We have a fair bit of experience if it's used correctly.

Sluff, you know the respect I have for you, but there are relevant facts and not relevant facts.

 

That Megson got 18 from 18, as did Coyle, is not relevant.

 

That we were 2nd from bottom when Coyle was appointed (anointed?) and now we are safe in 14th is relevant.

 

Thanks BD, I really appreciate those kind words.

 

I've not really been trying to make a point on this thread but if I was I guess it would be that we have not seen the 'Coyle effect' yet.

 

We have carried on (points wise) just the same under Coyle as we had with Megson - so much so that we probably have ended up in the same position and with the same number of points if we had simply kept Megson as the manager. I don't know about you but I some how expected more.

 

Ok the two halves of the season do differ from each other - but not significantly though - and yes Coyle has had to use in the main a Megson team - but as we were last reported as being ?64 million in debt, then I can't imagine Coyle will have the transfer budget to make wholesale changes to the team for next season.

 

So I expect that a lot of the players he uses now, he will be using next season too. However the performances he is getting from the team - fully 3 months on from his appointment have been described as 'woeful'.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8617714.stm

 

Obviously I hope for a great deal better performance wise next season (and hopefully result wise too) but up to now there doesn't appear to have been a great deal of Coyle magic to me.

 

I'm sorry if my view seems to offend other posters.

Edited April 25, 201016 yr by Sluffy

Nope not exactly

 

There's a contradiction in my eyes

 

Is keeping us not relegated

 

a) Job done

or

a bonus

 

Don't see how it can be both

 

Homer, by totally judging Coyle's talents as a manager now, you're in the same camp as those that had Megson judged before this season started...

 

Yes we can have some appreciation of his man mgt and tactics at this stage, but we don't know what he'll do with "his" team. After all, remember what Allardyce used to say when defending his tactics - you can only play with the resources you have...and Coyle has only been able to play football in whatever way, with a squad that was (when he took over)

 

Out of the habit of winning

had no self confidence

nervous (especially at home)

used to negative tactics

in a relegation scrap

desperate

 

Do you really think that however amazing the manager is, that all of that can be changed around immediately?

 

Now I aint saying OC is the man yet, but we shall see

 

Oh and his better "PR" is an important aspect of his job too, but that IS something he can be judged on immediately

 

PS. Homer I do see you will give OC a clean slate, but you're also already saying he's no better than Megson - who was given a summer to prepare....I'd say judge him at Xmas

 

 

fair point, i guess i meant to say as thing stand now i dont see a great deal of difference between to two. PR aside.

 

ok they have different theories about the game. of which OC's will always appeal better to certain fans.

 

as ive said on numourous occasions, results are what are important. and results (as sluffy points out) are no better.

 

BUT i am willing to give OC the benefit of the doubt and full season before i get my bedsheets out. and even then i know what to expect from my team. anything above 17th is acceptable, top of the bottom half is a cracking season imo.

Thanks BD, I really appreciate those kind words.

 

I've not really been trying to make a point on this thread but if I was I guess it would be that we have not seen the 'Coyle effect' yet.

 

We have carried on (points wise) just the same under Coyle as we had with Megson - so much so that we probably have ended up in the same position and with the same number of points if we had simply kept Megson as the manager. I don't know about you but I some how expected more.

 

Ok the two halves of the season do differ from each other - but not significantly though - and yes Coyle has had to use in the main a Megson team - but as we were last reported as being ?64 million in debt, then I can't imagine Coyle will have the transfer budget to make wholesale changes to the team for next season.

 

So I expect that a lot of the players he uses now, he will be using next season too. However the performances he is getting from the team - fully 3 months on from his appointment have been described as 'woeful'.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8617714.stm

 

Obviously I hope for a great deal better performance wise next season (and hopefully result wise too) but up to now there doesn't appear to have been a great deal of Coyle magic to me.

 

I'm sorry if my view seems to offend other posters.

 

Sluffy

 

As an entity, we were defeated under Megson

 

The players looked dejescted

The support was polarised, but the vast majority were at best apathetic and at worst almost seemed to will us to lose at times

 

The club looked like it was dying

 

I am under no doubt whatsoever that we'd have gone down had we not made the change there and then

 

It's all subjective of course, but I think you're using the statistics to make an assumption that doesn't take into everything into account

 

 

I'm still yet to be convinced about Coyle's skills as Manager and he must be on a steep, steep learning curve - let's not forget he only has limited Mgt experience relatively speaking and very limited in terms of top flight ....but the choice seemed to be that, or the tired old Peter Reid, George Graham, Sounness types and BWFC needed something fresh and new at the time of the appointment to kick us to safety

 

Now we'll see, but let's all give him a chance eh?