Youri McAnespie Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Holden, so I'd heard, had completed the most tackles in the league before his injury, therefore that means our 'combative midfielder' box is ticked with him in the side. Stick a lawnmower handle up his arse and we can dispense with the groundsman too, I'm not Muamba's biggest fan and the midfield has been crying out for players who show for and can play the ball, Stevie Wonder could see that. To base our plans on Mavies and Holden 'clicking' and/or being fit at the same time sounds like a dubious one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 You can't have it both ways. Yes I can. So, and please be serious here, if Muamba's pass completion rate really is 80% that is STAGGERINGLY impressive. It would also indicate that he is excellent at ball retention. Do you honestly agree with that? As I said, the passing stats do not take into account simply losing posession by not being able to control the ball or letting it run away from you, therefore making them massively flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReebokBear Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Is he good at retaining the ball? Yes, actually. His flaw is in his range of passing. Muamba can't pass long, or thread a pass.....but most of the time he finds a team mate because he rarely passes over 10 yards. I have absolutely no issue with that, I don't mind water-carriers in a side so long as you also have creative players. Muamba's tackle success rate is also higher than Holden's, at about 78% in the last two season (I think that's correct, not read this season's stats). His tackle success was second in the league one season, to Nigel Reo-Coker. Muamba is never going to be popular, because he's not a fancy player. He gets in the way of the opposition, breaks up play, wins tackles and then gives the simple ball. I'm fine with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 To base our plans on Mavies and Holden 'clicking' and/or being fit at the same time sounds like a dubious one to me. I'd just like to see them have a run of games together. I too have said it's unlikely given their injury records (particularly Mavies), but some people are just writing them off as a pairing based on one poor game against Blackburn and a retarded notion that a central midfield pairing needs to have at least someone over 6ft tall in there. I think they'd work well together IF they got a chance to have a run of games together. I might well end up being wrong, but it's stupidity to write them off as a pairing based on one game whilst stating that they aren't physical enough when the stats prove that, despite his size, Holden makes more tackles than pretty much everyone else (including Muamba). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yes I can. So, and please be serious here, if Muamba's pass completion rate really is 80% that is STAGGERINGLY impressive. It would also indicate that he is excellent at ball retention. Do you honestly agree with that? As I said, the passing stats do not take into account simply losing posession by not being able to control the ball or letting it run away from you, therefore making them massively flawed. Or that 80% or so of his passes are to those close around him. Just that when those options arent available he tries passes that iniesta would struggle to make otherwise known as a rush of blood moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) I think they'd work well together IF they got a chance to have a run of games together. I might well end up being wrong, but it's stupidity to write them off as a pairing based on one game whilst stating that they aren't physical enough when the stats prove that, despite his size, Holden makes more tackles than pretty much everyone else (including Muamba) Muamba's wasteage does not go unnoticed I assure you, but I shudder at the thought of next seasons Cahill-less back four featuring Knight (especially when he suddenly decides he can play a bit and going walkabout) without the breakup play of Muamba - even if his next move 99% of the time is a 5 yard pass to Holden or Mavies (or to trip over his bootlaces) he buys time... Edited May 11, 2011 by Youri McAnespie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Muamba's wasteage does not go unnoticed I assure you, but I shudder at the thought of next seasons Cahill-less back four featuring Knight (especially when he suddenly decides he can play a bit and going walkabout) without the breakup play of Muamba - even if his next move 99% of the time is a 5 yard pass to Holden or Mavies (or to trip over his bootlaces) he buys time... Oddly enough, Knight's best form was when Cahill was out with his blood clot. Quite why that was the case remains a mystery. Maybe he felt more responsibility, or maybe, without Cahill there to clean up his mess, he knew not to fuck about with it on the edge of his own box. That's what I like about Wheater. He's a good old-fashioned, no frills defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) That's what I like about Wheater. He's a good old-fashioned, no frills defender. I was baffled by the return of Knight at Wheater's expense, he knows his limits (Wheater) - hopefully, as someone else has pointed out elsewhere, this was just to keep Knight's confidence up for next season. I agree though that Knight had his best spell for us when Cahill was out, fingers crossed this will be repeated when he leaves. Edited May 11, 2011 by Youri McAnespie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolton va va Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Is he good at retaining the ball? Yes, actually. His flaw is in his range of passing. Muamba can't pass long, or thread a pass.....but most of the time he finds a team mate because he rarely passes over 10 yards. I have absolutely no issue with that, I don't mind water-carriers in a side so long as you also have creative players. Muamba's tackle success rate is also higher than Holden's, at about 78% in the last two season (I think that's correct, not read this season's stats). His tackle success was second in the league one season, to Nigel Reo-Coker. Muamba is never going to be popular, because he's not a fancy player. He gets in the way of the opposition, breaks up play, wins tackles and then gives the simple ball. I'm fine with him. Exactly- The problem has been with the attempt to use him as some kind of goalscoring/creative midfielder which he clearly isn't. As for popularity - there have always been some people watching Bolton who can't understand the need for a defensive midfield player & i think every one of them has had problems with boo-boys, with McCann the most recent example before Muamba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Exactly- The problem has been with the attempt to use him as some kind of goalscoring/creative midfielder which he clearly isn't. As for popularity - there have always been some people watching Bolton who can't understand the need for a defensive midfield player & i think every one of them has had problems with boo-boys, with McCann the most recent example before Muamba. McCann wasn't disliked because he was a defensive midfielder, he was disliked, on the whole, because he was shit. TBF, when he was employed in the DM role he did a decent enough job for a while and he also did his bit to keep us from getting relegated. A big part of why McCann became such a target for the boo-boys was when Megson employed him on the left hand side - I think that was the first game of last season? He then gifted Fulham a goal at home by passing it stright to their player on the edge of our box.. I don't think his Bolton career ever recoverd from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted May 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2011 A big part of why McCann became such a target for the boo-boys was when Megson employed him on the left hand side - I think that was the first game of last season? He then gifted Fulham a goal at home by passing it stright to their player on the edge of our box.. I don't think his Bolton career ever recoverd from that. so i can't use an hour of davies and holden to support a point, yes its fair enough to slag a bloke off mercilessly for a bad pass anyway, the truth is that mccann became a target cos nicky hunt wasn't playing and elmander hadn't been signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 so i can't use an hour of davies and holden to support a point, yes its fair enough to slag a bloke off mercilessly for a bad pass anyway, the truth is that mccann became a target cos nicky hunt wasn't playing and elmander hadn't been signed Where did I say it was fair? The truth is (through no fault of his own) McCann embodied everything we hated about Megson. There were plenty of games we were crying out for a striker to be brought on because we had the opposition on the ropes, but Megson knew better and brought on McCann so we could end up clinging on to our lead for grim death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted May 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2011 So what you are saying, in short, is that you knew better than someone who'd worked in football all their life? Ok then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 So what you are saying, in short, is that you knew better than someone who'd worked in football all their life? Ok then... I'm not saying I know better than anyone ... unless that someone is Megson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted May 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2011 OK, I think it's fair that you list your credentials so we can make a qualified decision on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hmmm. Just offering my opinion. Isn't that what forums are for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted May 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2011 Sort of, but your opinions need to be open to question. Or are we just supposed to take what you say as factual, spoon fed bollocks? Your posts don't appear to be offering opinions but "the truth". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Sort of, but your opinions need to be open to question. Or are we just supposed to take what you say as factual, spoon fed bollocks? Your posts don't appear to be offering opinions but "the truth". No, just the way I see it. My opinion, under Megson was that the worst thing we could do when defending a lead was to take off a striker and bring on an additional DM or defender due to us not being abale to keep hold of the ball. Ultimately we just fell further and further back and ended up buckging under the pressure. The home game versus Hull was a prime example of this. If you disagree then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted May 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's hard to disagree with such a general point, I'm not aware of many managers who don't go more defensive when they want to hang on to a lead. Certainly all out attack, in the style Hull played is a one way route back The Championship. Hindsight is a great thing but I can't remember Big Fat Sam playing flowing, attacking football when we were 1-0 up with 5 minutes to go either, it was get it in the corner for the Kevins to hold up. When Kevin Nolan left, that option wasn't quite as effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's hard to disagree with such a general point, I'm not aware of many managers who don't go more defensive when they want to hang on to a lead. Certainly all out attack, in the style Hull played is a one way route back The Championship. Hindsight is a great thing but I can't remember Big Fat Sam playing flowing, attacking football when we were 1-0 up with 5 minutes to go either, it was get it in the corner for the Kevins to hold up. When Kevin Nolan left, that option wasn't quite as effective. Agreed, but under Big Sam we were masters at scoring first and defending resolutely and being organised at the back. Something we simply weren't anywhere near as good at with Megson. Possibly because we didn't have the likes of N'Gotty, Faye, at the back. I can, though, give you a manager who has shown himself to buck the trend and throw on striker in an attempt to ease pressure on the defence. I give you Owen Coyle. True, it's probably the reason for our piss-poor away record, but also the reason why we won games like the home game against t'Rovers earlier this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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