Unless its another rumour he's popped em

Just to make an obvious point before scuttling back off into sanity again, but you can support the right of a group to bear arms against its oppressors and still condemn what it does with those arms. Were black South Africans justified in using violence as a last resort? Of course they were, with fucking bells on. Does that mean the murders in Pretoria that day were justified? Of course not. It really doesn't seem that complicated to me.

It's won't go round for ever and ever though...

 

Mandela will be elevated to sainthood - faults forgiven, if acknowledged at all.

Hagiographies (more hagiographies) written.

More eulogising and public expressions of sympathy and grief.

Anyone who defers from the orthodoxy will be viewed as an apologist for Apartheid or worse.

Meanwhile almost everyone basks in the warm glow of having publicly mourned the passing of their, on a cosmic level, 'good black mate'.

 

Meanwhile the top echelons of the ANC sit in their mansions counting their millions (when not squabbling amongst themselves) whilst a good majority of the countrymen they are supposed to represent live in squalor that's barely changed in almost twenty years.

 

 

Had to +1 this one Youri.

Wife of a very long and good friend of mine spent 30 years there. As wet liberal yoghurt knitting equal rights do-gooder as you will find. Civil servant too, funnily enough.

 

When she says he has blood on his hands and in many parts the natives would still be living in caves and eating each other but for the white man civilising the place, you tend to sort of begin to understand what's gone on a bit more than simply believing what the media want you to think.

 

One day if peace rides over Ireland, will the world think McGuiness and Adams were good ambassadors for peace too?

 

see, at that point i lose any respect for her and any interest in her oopinion

 

making a living under such a despicable regime makes em almost as bad as the racist scum governing the place

did adams and his lot live within a democracy

 

did mandela?

did adams and his lot live within a democracy

 

did mandela?

without getting drawn from Mandela and what has already been described as a totally different situation, but if you do not have a vote it is immaterial if you live in a democracy or not, infact,it couldn't be described a a democracy if each adult wasnt entitled a vote.

did adams and his lot live within a democracy

 

did mandela?

 

 

FFS. Did Adams and co. attack their first wives with an axe? Wife beating scum?

 

Get some balance. You have got to be the biggest swallower of mass media propaganda on here.

 

I'll bet Jacob Zuma will be very upset at his palace (as will all of his wives in their separate living quarters there).

aye, that'll be me

 

you crack on

 

no different than how you aussies abused the locals

without getting drawn from Mandela and what has already been described as a totally different situation, but if you do not have a vote it is immaterial if you live in a democracy or not, infact,it couldn't be described a a democracy if each adult wasnt entitled a vote.

 

 i think thats the point i was trying to make

 

the catholics had the opportunity to affect change through the ballet box - and yes i know, the boundaries made it unlikely they would be successful

I love how nelson is bringing everyone together again in death...

 i think thats the point i was trying to make

 

the catholics had the opportunity to affect change through the ballet box - and yes i know, the boundaries made it unlikely they would be successful

hmm, many couldn't as they weren't allowed the vote, that was the point  (one of)of the civil rights movement,wasnt just the boundary gerrymandering that affected it, 

Mass media propaganda?

 

Otherwise known as the truth?

hmm, many couldn't as they weren't allowed the vote, that was the point  (one of)of the civil rights movement,wasnt just the boundary gerrymandering that affected it, 

 

 

genuinely interested in who couldn't vote?

aye, that'll be me

 

you crack on

 

no different than how you aussies abused the locals

 

 

Not likely to rise to that pal so don't waste your time.

 

As usual, anything that causes waves within your 'prevailing wisdom' gets bypassed. You'll learn over the coming months what an absolute fucking basket case that country really is. Up until now, everything has been wrapped in the cotton wool cocoon of the Madiba personality cult. Mandela's passing may well focus the worlds attention on the absolute corruption of the ANC and the poverty they will always generate.

 

Millions are living in equal or worse squalor than they were before 'freedom'. Meanwhile, Mr. Zuma and his cronies are living in absolute splendour and salting their millions away in offshore bank accounts.

 

All sounds very familiar? Oh yes - just north of South Africa.

Despite everything, if you think peace in Northern Ireland could have been achieved without McGuinness and Adams then you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Apart from that, I'm amused to see Bolty accuse another of lacking balance...

Mass media propaganda?

 

Otherwise known as the truth?

 

 

Gonzo - fine. If you believe it's the truth, then who am  to shake your preconceptions?

 

In considering the truth, just promise me that you'll consider ALL of the truth, not just the pre-digested tripe from the mass media.

Not likely to rise to that pal so don't waste your time.

 

As usual, anything that causes waves within your 'prevailing wisdom' gets bypassed. You'll learn over the coming months what an absolute fucking basket case that country really is. Up until now, everything has been wrapped in the cotton wool cocoon of the Madiba personality cult. Mandela's passing may well focus the worlds attention on the absolute corruption of the ANC and the poverty they will always generate.

 

Millions are living in equal or worse squalor than they were before 'freedom'. Meanwhile, Mr. Zuma and his cronies are living in absolute splendour and salting their millions away in offshore bank accounts.

 

All sounds very familiar? Oh yes - just north of South Africa.

Yes because all leading politicians and statesmen in this country stay perfectly grounded and share their wealth accordingly.

Gonzo - fine. If you believe it's the truth, then who am to shake your preconceptions?

 

In considering the truth, just promise me that you'll consider ALL of the truth, not just the pre-digested tripe from the mass media.

Absolutely Bolty...

 

I'm interested to hear it from both sides

Edited December 6, 201312 yr by gonzo

Not likely to rise to that pal so don't waste your time.

 

As usual, anything that causes waves within your 'prevailing wisdom' gets bypassed. You'll learn over the coming months what an absolute fucking basket case that country really is. Up until now, everything has been wrapped in the cotton wool cocoon of the Madiba personality cult. Mandela's passing may well focus the worlds attention on the absolute corruption of the ANC and the poverty they will always generate.

 

Millions are living in equal or worse squalor than they were before 'freedom'. Meanwhile, Mr. Zuma and his cronies are living in absolute splendour and salting their millions away in offshore bank accounts.

 

All sounds very familiar? Oh yes - just north of South Africa.

The point to make here is so blindingly obvious that I can't even by arsed to write it. Suffice to say that a great man once spoke of the worst possible democracy being infinitely preferable to the best possible totalitarianism and you can draw the obvious conclusions.

only rate payers allowed to vote, favourable allocation of housing to protestants meaning only those holding properties basically, for rent or otherwise, wasn't a " no votes for catholics" by any means, but it was engineered so that not many had the vote and business owners and land owners had more than one vote, this coupled with the gerrymandering was, or at last percieved to be, unfair, and led to the civil rights movement, in turn what we take for granted now as "one man one vote" which certainly didnt happen in the 60's and 70's

only rate payers allowed to vote, favourable allocation of housing to protestants meaning only those holding properties basically, for rent or otherwise, wasn't a " no votes for catholics" by any means, but it was engineered so that not many had the vote and business owners and land owners had more than one vote, this coupled with the gerrymandering was, or at last percieved to be, unfair, and led to the civil rights movement, in turn what we take for granted now as "one man one vote" which certainly didnt happen in the 60's and 70's

 

thank you

The point to make here is so blindingly obvious that I can't even by arsed to write it. Suffice to say that a great man once spoke of the worst possible democracy being infinitely preferable to the best possible totalitarianism and you can draw the obvious conclusions.

 

 

Yet still you did.

 

So you'll be a fan/supporter of Zanu PF then? Be free in every sense of the word apart from starvation?

Edited December 6, 201312 yr by bolty58

So we are now comparing Irish republicans bombing shopping centres in the 1990's in response to a persecution of Catholics in the 1600's to a bloke fighting to stop apartheid in his own country?

Good lord this place is mental at times haha

Comparing? Or simply asking the question..... Terrorist or freedom fighter.

 

As said elsewhere... Now that he has passed, the truth may start to come out, and the Hollywood profile of Mandela & his mob may well be tarnished. Just like Jimmy Saville's profile went from hero to zero!

 

(Sorry couldn't resist!!!)

Comparing? Or simply asking the question..... Terrorist or freedom fighter.

 

As said elsewhere... Now that he has passed, the truth may start to come out, and the Hollywood profile of Mandela & his mob may well be tarnished. Just like Jimmy Saville's profile went from hero to zero!

 

(Sorry couldn't resist!!!)

 

 

Mandela; a kiddie fiddler?

Yet still you did.

 

So you'll be a fan/supporter of Zanu PF then? Be free in every sense of the word apart from starvation?

What gives you the impression that Zanu PF are interested in freedom for Zimbabwe's people?

see, at that point i lose any respect for her and any interest in her oopinion

 

making a living under such a despicable regime makes em almost as bad as the racist scum governing the place

She grew up there from childhood.