is that it now game over no chance of POTUS

 

Rayguns out

If we can afford £30billion for some surgical gowns that don’t work, we can afford the same to keep Putin at a safe distance.

And I suspect Ukraine will be much more likely to give us minerals and build/supply contracts in return for our loyalty.

Trump is like the dickheads on Twitter calling for the manager to be sacked when we’re losing at half time.

Some games have to go the distance.

19 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Going to answer the question? 

21 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Yes I’m sure Trump & Vance had something beautiful for the people of Ukraine 🤣 Peace all round

If the bullets and bombs stopped  ... that's something no?

 

5 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

In what way mate?

Because sadly, I can't see any peace deal holding without the US at least helping to police it. 

12 hours ago, Sweep said:

I guess the ideal now is Ukraine tells the US to fuck off, Europe steps up, and as a "reward" gets access to those minerals that Trump is so desperate to get his tiny little hands on

Aye reet. Make up a sentence using the words 'believe', 'it' and 'see'.

11 hours ago, kent_white said:

Remember Kamala Harris telling us all EXACTLY what would happen if Trump got it a few short months ago? 

https://rumble.com/v6pwsmm-kamala-harris-describes-exactly-the-situation-happening-now-with-trump-givi.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawIvzzVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQ69GOAXcg7B3IHIJsbFyV8nFYT65ics6TOz3vP0rVNoSgNQ2QiH2IQorg_aem_6ADdpHSDc2S1lzTBZ2sCwg

 Who?

25 minutes ago, royal white said:

All I want To know is how much land you think Putin should get. If you have no idea just say. I certainly don’t. Not sure why you keep trying to deflect from it. 

Alright then. Let’s see if we can actually discuss something without the childish point scoring & twisting words. 
 

We would all love him to get none of the land wouldn’t we ? I don’t see any reason why Ukraine & Europe can’t push for that.

You think that’s not possible . But it’s what the people of Ukraine want, so it’s their right to fight for their land back. The polls clearly show the Eastern population doesn’t want to join Russia. 

 If that means the war continues, so be it. Many would rather die fighting than live under Putin. 

 By your logic that opinion makes me “pro war “ … which is an odd response. 

 By most of the land, I meant the majority of the stolen land, not most of the whole of Ukraine. 
 

It’s not for me to say what’s right for the people on that border & where you cut them off. If land must be given it shouldn’t be the coastal areas or anything significantly further than the original border. Neither should it include valuable resources. 

I think Trumps an idiot, I disagree with most his policies. You don’t, I can respect that. But if Trump achieved something that meant Ukraine got the vast majority of the stolen land & resources back, I’d be happy yes. I’d hold my hand up & apologise to you for criticising your constant defence of him. 
 

Ain’t happening though - the last few weeks have proved who he stands with. 

 

The consequences of giving a brutal dictator valuable land would be disastrous. It wouldn’t be ‘peace’.

It’s bonkers you think we should accept such an outcome because people are dying & it’s costing billions. 

3 hours ago, Zico said:

Europe just needs to back Ukraine till Trump is gone as president 

4 years

Will soon pass 

..and then back to the status quo under Biden?

The EU to cough up for four years? Laughable.

6 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

 Who?

Left back. Plays for Luton 😁

11 hours ago, Dimron said:

New Commander in Chief?

 

You are not thinking this through. Imagine the embezzlement opportunities with all the countries tipping in billions.

Edited March 2, 20251 yr by bolty58

12 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

If the bullets and bombs stopped  ... that's something no?

 

Not really. 

We could have handed London over to Hitler. Conceded the war. The bullets would have stopped

But it wouldn’t be a world we wanted to live in. Long term peace wouldn’t be guaranteed either. 

Ukrainians don’t want to live under Putin. We should respect their right to full sovereignty & support that.

It’s clear Trump & Vance don’t. 
 

We all want the war to end. But letting Putin win would be suicide. 

1 hour ago, royal white said:

So you won’t be happy. But would love Trump to do it. Makes perfect sense. 🤪How much land would you love Trump to negotiate for Putin? 
 

 

He's been on a distillery tour or summat.

It’s a cult. And simple folk fall for cults. 

8 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Alright then. Let’s see if we can actually discuss something without the childish point scoring & twisting words. 
 

We would all love him to get none of the land wouldn’t we ? I don’t see any reason why Ukraine & Europe can’t push for that.

You think that’s not possible . But it’s what the people of Ukraine want, so it’s their right to fight for their land back. The polls clearly show the Eastern population doesn’t want to join Russia. 

 If that means the war continues, so be it. Many would rather die fighting than live under Putin. 

 By your logic that opinion makes me “pro war “ … which is an odd response. 

 By most of the land, I meant the majority of the stolen land, not most of the whole of Ukraine. 
 

It’s not for me to say what’s right for the people on that border & where you cut them off. If land must be given it shouldn’t be the coastal areas or anything significantly further than the original border. Neither should it include valuable resources. 

I think Trumps an idiot, I disagree with most his policies. You don’t, I can respect that. But if Trump achieved something that meant Ukraine got the vast majority of the stolen land & resources back, I’d be happy yes. I’d hold my hand up & apologise to you for criticising your constant defence of him. 
 

Ain’t happening though - the last few weeks have proved who he stands with. 

 

The consequences of giving a brutal dictator valuable land would be disastrous. It wouldn’t be ‘peace’.

It’s bonkers you think we should accept such an outcome because people are dying & it’s costing billions. 

Yes we would all love Russia to retreat. I don’t think they will though. You think Europe and Russia can push for that, by saying push I assume you mean via talks? If So why have we waited all this time and now have to make a push without (potentially) the backing of America.   
 

You say Ukrainians have a right to fight for their land back, yes they do. Yet 100s of thousand have fled because they don’t want to fight. 10s of thousands are draft dodging and you have 100s of thousands who aren’t able to fight due to Ukraines ridiculous age ruling. They’re happy to accept young foreign fighters joining their front line but won’t allow their own. Go figure. 

Here’s a few articles highlighting how some Ukrainians are willing to concede land. 

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

https://kyivindependent.com/55-of-ukrainians-opposed-to-territorial-concessions-to-achieve-peace-poll-finds/

 

https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2024/09/19/amid-growing-war-fatigue-some-ukrainians-more-willing-cede-land
 

https://theconversation.com/one-third-of-ukrainians-would-give-up-land-for-peace-but-its-not-as-simple-as-that-235491

 

 

It’s quite clearly not a case of all Ukrainians wanting to fight for their country, and it’s hardly surprising that those living closer to the front line are more in favour of some kind of deal than those living 100s  of miles away in the relative safety of the west. 
 

It’s bonkers you think we should keep paying for people to be killed when there’s a possibility of peace. Oh and well done on covering all angles 😂 pro peace and pro war seems to be your standing. Give land don’t give land, at least that way you can say “I told you so” 

Edited March 2, 20251 yr by royal white

8 hours ago, mickbrown said:

It’s a cult. And simple folk fall for cults. 

I was going to respond with 'and some cunts are simple' but in the spirit of rapprochement with my mate Mick, I won't. 😉

You don't see it like millions of others don't but all this virtue signalling, fluffy marshmallow, PC nonsense which has blighted the world had to go and the 'simple folk' here believes that this circuit breaker was way overdue.

The world is a safer place when strong politicians (I was going to type men but the diversity and inclusivity cult has even affected me to a small extent) have the reins rather than weak bureaucrats skilled only at raping the system and concerned only about feathering their own nest be it financially or seeking immortality in history books. Putin would not have dared to invade Ukraine if The Don had been in the seat. Biden - pah, powderpuff.

19 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

I was going to respond with 'and some cunts are simple' but in the spirit of rapprochement with my mate Mick, I won't. 😉

You don't see it like millions of others don't but all this virtue signalling, fluffy marshmallow, PC nonsense which has blighted the world had to go and the 'simple folk' here believes that this circuit breaker was way overdue.

The world is a safer place when strong politicians (I was going to type men but the diversity and inclusivity cult has even affected me to a small extent) have the reins rather than weak bureaucrats skilled only at raping the system and concerned only about feathering their own nest be it financially or seeking immortality in history books. Putin would not have dared to invade Ukraine if The Don had been in the seat. Biden - pah, powderpuff.

So by that logic, you’re saying Putin is so scared of Trump that he’ll do whatever trump tells him to.

In which case, trump simply needs to inform his good mate Vlad that it’s time to withdraw, stop the killing and all sanctions will be lifted.

Ukraine will be honour bound to then sign the minerals deal, Trump and vlad can open the Crisco Oil and celebrate Trumps Nobel peace prize and everyone will be happy.

You need to get yourself to Washington pronto. If you set off now on your Lambrini you should make it just before trump has to leave office.

9 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Not really. 

We could have handed London over to Hitler. Conceded the war. The bullets would have stopped

But it wouldn’t be a world we wanted to live in. Long term peace wouldn’t be guaranteed either. 

Ukrainians don’t want to live under Putin. We should respect their right to full sovereignty & support that.

It’s clear Trump & Vance don’t. 
 

We all want the war to end. But letting Putin win would be suicide. 

 

How far should the UK (and Europe) be prepared to go to make sure Ukraine gets its land back? Particularly if no US involvement.

I don't dislike Starmer at all, but it strikes me that it's easy for him to stand 'fully behind' Ukraine in perpetuity when we're expecting it to be (largely) someone else's money and entirely other peoples lives.

Cuts to the aid budget to pay for a, relatively, modest increase in defence spending already has his backbenchers grumbling and a ministerial resignation. I just don't believe there is the will here (or in many major European countries) to get involved to the level that would be required to win this war.

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Yes we would all love Russia to retreat. I don’t think they will though. You think Europe and Russia can push for that, by saying push I assume you mean via talks? If So why have we waited all this time and now have to make a push without (potentially) the backing of America.   
 

You say Ukrainians have a right to fight for their land back, yes they do. Yet 100s of thousand have fled because they don’t want to fight. 10s of thousands are draft dodging and you have 100s of thousands who aren’t able to fight due to Ukraines ridiculous age ruling. They’re happy to accept young foreign fighters joining their front line but won’t allow their own. Go figure. 

Here’s a few articles highlighting how some Ukrainians are willing to concede land. 

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

https://kyivindependent.com/55-of-ukrainians-opposed-to-territorial-concessions-to-achieve-peace-poll-finds/

 

https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2024/09/19/amid-growing-war-fatigue-some-ukrainians-more-willing-cede-land
 

https://theconversation.com/one-third-of-ukrainians-would-give-up-land-for-peace-but-its-not-as-simple-as-that-235491

 

 

It’s quite clearly not a case of all Ukrainians wanting to fight for their country, and it’s hardly surprising that those living closer to the front line are more in favour of some kind of deal than those living 100s  of miles away in the relative safety of the west. 
 

It’s bonkers you think we should keep paying for people to be killed when there’s a possibility of peace. Oh and well done on covering all angles 😂 pro peace and pro war seems to be your standing. Give land don’t give land, at least that way you can say “I told you so” 

I do find it odd that a bloke of your intelligence finds it's so hard to understand the view of most Europeans and Ukrainians. Even if you disagree and think they should give Putin the land, the fact you think those who disagree are 'pro war' just makes you look daft pal. 

We know Ukraine is on its knees. So is Russia to be fair. It works both ways. 

The alternative currently is allowing a dictator to bully and invade a sovereign nation. By allowing Putin to win and take a close to a fifth of the country, you are basically giving a free pass to other dictators around the world, and even Putin himself during future 'special operations'. 

Thanks for the links - they only prove my point that they aren't ready to concede.

Here's another one which analyses those views - 

https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1447&page=1

So, first of all, we emphasize that for only 4-7% of Ukrainians, these territorial concessions are easy to accept. This should be interpreted as evidence of the illegitimacy of the occupation of any part of Ukraine for the absolute majority of the population.

History tells us that you can't always defeat people like Putin overnight. It takes time. Independence for some nations can take years and years. 

Many UK taxpayers are proud that some of our cash is going to the Ukraine. Great to see the investment from Starmer yesterday.

12 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

How far should the UK (and Europe) be prepared to go to make sure Ukraine gets its land back? Particularly if no US involvement.

I don't dislike Starmer at all, but it strikes me that it's easy for him to stand 'fully behind' Ukraine in perpetuity when we're expecting it to be (largely) someone else's money and entirely other peoples lives.

Cuts to the aid budget to pay for a, relatively, modest increase in defence spending already has his backbenchers grumbling and a ministerial resignation. I just don't believe there is the will here (or in many major European countries) to get involved to the level that would be required to win this war.

If the deal involves Putin holding on to all the land that is currently occupied, then that would be disastrous. And Europe and the UK should continue to support and invest to avoid that.

Especially with no guarantee that Putin won't try to install a pro Russian government by force in Kyiv in the future.

If a deal can be secured to push Russia back further and future protections in place for Ukraine, then of course I can see the rational for conceding some land. 

10 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

If the deal involves Putin holding on to all the land that is currently occupied, then that would be disastrous. And Europe and the UK should continue to support and invest to avoid that.

Especially with no guarantee that Putin won't try to install a pro Russian government by force in Kyiv in the future.

If a deal can be secured to push Russia back further and future protections in place for Ukraine, then of course I can see the rational for conceding some land. 

Yep. I still don’t think people want to see what they are dealing with here. Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. He has ruthlessly imprisoned or killed all his political opponents. He has sent former KGB agents to UK streets to murder ex Russian spies who crossed him. He sends boats around Europe destroying power cables and disrupting our capabilities as much as he can. Any appeasement with Putin will have severe consequences for long term UK security. 

8 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

I do find it odd that a bloke of your intelligence finds it's so hard to understand the view of most Europeans and Ukrainians. Even if you disagree and think they should give Putin the land, the fact you think those who disagree are 'pro war' just makes you look daft pal. 

We know Ukraine is on its knees. So is Russia to be fair. It works both ways. 

The alternative currently is allowing a dictator to bully and invade a sovereign nation. By allowing Putin to win and take a close to a fifth of the country, you are basically giving a free pass to other dictators around the world, and even Putin himself during future 'special operations'. 

Thanks for the links - they only prove my point that they aren't ready to concede.

Here's another one which analyses those views - 

https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1447&page=1

So, first of all, we emphasize that for only 4-7% of Ukrainians, these territorial concessions are easy to accept. This should be interpreted as evidence of the illegitimacy of the occupation of any part of Ukraine for the absolute majority of the population.

History tells us that you can't always defeat people like Putin overnight. It takes time. Independence for some nations can take years and years. 

Many UK taxpayers are proud that some of our cash is going to the Ukraine. Great to see the investment from Starmer yesterday.

Which is your view 👍

the links show a massive change of people’s view now as opposed to when the war first started, and these are people living near the front line not 1000s of miles away. We have had folk in here say wait till Trump is finished and wait till Putin is dead. That can be anything between 3.5 years to 20 years. What do you think those figures will be then.

 

Support across Europe to stand with Ukraine till they win has dropped yet support for an agreement with Russia  taking parts of the land they have claimed is rising. Also many voters in European countries would like to see more western help but they don’t want to pay for it. 

And no one is saying let Putin take a 5th. This is what talks are for which so far no one has wanted to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/26/support-for-ukraine-russia-war-yougov-poll-survey

Trump is like a horse on the loose in a hospital 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFsyXbvuc0Y/?igsh=bXNvdm9xYzBma2th

 

12 minutes ago, royal white said:

Which is your view 👍

the links show a massive change of people’s view now as opposed to when the war first started, and these are people living near the front line not 1000s of miles away. We have had folk in here say wait till Trump is finished and wait till Putin is dead. That can be anything between 3.5 years to 20 years. What do you think those figures will be then.

 

Support across Europe to stand with Ukraine till they win has dropped yet support for an agreement with Russia  taking parts of the land they have claimed is rising. Also many voters in European countries would like to see more western help but they don’t want to pay for it. 

And no one is saying let Putin take a 5th. This is what talks are for which so far no one has wanted to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/26/support-for-ukraine-russia-war-yougov-poll-survey

Putin has won then.

When the bully wins in the playground, the soft kids tend to gather round him.

15 minutes ago, royal white said:

Which is your view 👍

 

🥱

16 minutes ago, Spider said:

Putin has won then.

When the bully wins in the playground, the soft kids tend to gather round him.

Good, now that's settled, let's move on.