is that it now game over no chance of POTUS

 

Rayguns out

12 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Good, now that's settled, let's move on. 

I’m sure he’ll settle for that and it’ll be the last we really hear of him.

✌️ 

18 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Yep. I still don’t think people want to see what they are dealing with here. Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. He has ruthlessly imprisoned or killed all his political opponents. He has sent former KGB agents to UK streets to murder ex Russian spies who crossed him. He sends boats around Europe destroying power cables and disrupting our capabilities as much as he can. Any appeasement with Putin will have severe consequences for long term UK security. 

 

But that goes back to the question I asked...

How far should the UK (and Europe) be prepared to go to make sure Ukraine gets its land back? Particularly if no US involvement.

 

I'm genuinely interested in any proposed alternatives. Assuming the poll above is correct, 'appeasement' and 'fight on until they fuck off' are pretty even in Britain and this is at a point where we have limited skin in the game and the average person has sacrificed nothing.

2 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

But that goes back to the question I asked...

How far should the UK (and Europe) be prepared to go to make sure Ukraine gets its land back? Particularly if no US involvement.

 

I'm genuinely interested in any proposed alternatives. Assuming the poll above is correct, 'appeasement' and 'fight on until they fuck off' are pretty even in Britain and this is at a point where we have limited skin in the game and the average person has sacrificed nothing.

 

Impossible to answer your question. However, Trumps plan for “peace” (awarding Russian aggression) is not something the UK should endorse.

11 hours ago, bolty58 said:

You are not thinking this through. Imagine the embezzlement opportunities with all the countries tipping in billions.

You are correct... from talking with Romanian and Bulgarian boys I know from work, mafia organisations run the eastern european states at all levels and they demand their percentages... I often wonder who is pulling the little Ukrainian actor's strings

2 minutes ago, Dimron said:

You are correct... from talking with Romanian and Bulgarian boys I know from work, mafia organisations run the eastern european states at all levels and they demand their percentages... I often wonder who is pulling the little Ukrainian actor's strings

Jesus Christ 

2 minutes ago, Dimron said:

You are correct... from talking with Romanian and Bulgarian boys I know from work, mafia organisations run the eastern european states at all levels and they demand their percentages... I often wonder who is pulling the little Ukrainian actor's strings

I keep hearing this argument being made. That somehow Zelenskyy is siphoning off a load of cash somehow. I just haven't seen or heard any evidence of it. Have you got any? 

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I keep hearing this argument being made. That somehow Zelenskyy is siphoning off a load of cash somehow. I just haven't seen or heard any evidence of it. Have you got any? 

The Romanian and Bulgarian boys he knows from work.

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I keep hearing this argument being made. That somehow Zelenskyy is siphoning off a load of cash somehow. I just haven't seen or heard any evidence of it. Have you got any? 

It's no coincidence that there's been an influx of Barbershops and Car washes in Kiev.

 

8 minutes ago, Dimron said:

You are correct... from talking with Romanian and Bulgarian boys I know from work, mafia organisations run the eastern european states at all levels and they demand their percentages... I often wonder who is pulling the little Ukrainian actor's strings

 

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Jesus Christ 

No need for such blasphemy @gonzo

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I keep hearing this argument being made. That somehow Zelenskyy is siphoning off a load of cash somehow. I just haven't seen or heard any evidence of it. Have you got any? 

It goes back to before Trump's impeachment, Zelensky was involved, there was a company Burisma Holdings.

Oligaarchs Furtash, Zlochevsky, Lutin were all mixed up somehow... it is a dark web of intrigue, deals and assassinations.

11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

The Romanian and Bulgarian boys he knows from work.

I have been friends with a Romanian builder for over 10 years. His wife is a pharmacist and they built up a small chain of shops, he did the builds, she ran the business.

They paid their usual dues to the local mafia "protection money" or "tax" I suppose.

Then one day they told him they were buying him out and made a stupidly low offer which they refused... so they torched one of the shops, told him his house with his wife and kids inside will be next and dropped the offer.

They fled over here and started again, we now do jobs between us and she works in the local Boots.

Happens all the time, when they go to the hospital they have to pay the local mafia organisation to go onto and up the queue... same with all governments offices, it's just the accepted way over there.

 

Zelenskys deffo on the take then cos @Dimrons mate got shaken down by the local Tony Soprano in a different country.

10 minutes ago, Dimron said:

It goes back to before Trump's impeachment, Zelensky was involved, there was a company Burisma Holdings.

Oligaarchs Furtash, Zlochevsky, Lutin were all mixed up somehow... it is a dark web of intrigue, deals and assassinations.

But those accusations came from Russian State TV and his political opponnents. And there hasn't been any credible evidence that has been substantiated by any independent international authority or court. Not that I've seen anyway. So I think it's dangerous talk in moments like these as it muddies the waters further in what is already a difficult and murky situation. 

So have you got any credible evidence that I've missed? 

54 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I keep hearing this argument being made. That somehow Zelenskyy is siphoning off a load of cash somehow. I just haven't seen or heard any evidence of it. Have you got any? 

Looks like he just got misinterpreted / misunderstood when he said he hasn't received the money

https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

But now looks like Musk is now pushing this narrative and no doubt Trump will too 

I don't know if this had already been posted, but with regards to the disrespect shown for not wearing a suit in the Oval office, there seem to have been other fairly high profile offenders... 

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I don't know if this had already been posted, but with regards to the disrespect shown for not wearing a suit in the Oval office, there seem to have been other fairly high profile offenders... 

It was clearly a pre-planned humiliation. Trump was taking the piss out of Zelenskyy from the second he arrived.

 

He should have worn Stone Island they would have shat themselves.

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Jesus Christ 

He doesn't exist and is, therefore, not pulling any strings.

1 hour ago, Dimron said:

You are correct... from talking with Romanian and Bulgarian boys I know from work, mafia organisations run the eastern european states at all levels and they demand their percentages... I often wonder who is pulling the little Ukrainian actor's strings

I was thinking more of the bent von der Liar when I typed that.

The head honcho of the biggest mafia around.

6 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

He doesn't exist and is, therefore, not pulling any strings.

Think you're getting confused with him and his dad

34 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Impossible to answer your question. However, Trumps plan for “peace” (awarding Russian aggression) is not something the UK should endorse.

 

I don't understand why it's impossible to answer. Trump has no interest in getting Ukraine all of its land back, and even less interest in getting rid of Putin. If you believe those things are necessary, how do you propose we achieve either of them without the support of the US?

The word 'appeasement' gets used because of its obvious historical connotations. But my sense would be most people are not up for alternatives that involve massively increasing financial hardship in this country or, worse, our troops fighting a war with Russia. It would be an absolutely miserable outcome for Russia to get to keep land it has stolen from the Ukraine, but plenty of other miserable things happen that we don't pile in to avert.

48 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I don't understand why it's impossible to answer. Trump has no interest in getting Ukraine all of its land back, and even less interest in getting rid of Putin. If you believe those things are necessary, how do you propose we achieve either of them without the support of the US?

The word 'appeasement' gets used because of its obvious historical connotations. But my sense would be most people are not up for alternatives that involve massively increasing financial hardship in this country or, worse, our troops fighting a war with Russia. It would be an absolutely miserable outcome for Russia to get to keep land it has stolen from the Ukraine, but plenty of other miserable things happen that we don't pile in to avert.

Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. He is already involved in a proxy war with the rest of Europe so we are involved whether we like it or not. Absolutely miserable isn’t even close to Russia achieving any of its war aims.

59 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I don't understand why it's impossible to answer. Trump has no interest in getting Ukraine all of its land back, and even less interest in getting rid of Putin. If you believe those things are necessary, how do you propose we achieve either of them without the support of the US?

The word 'appeasement' gets used because of its obvious historical connotations. But my sense would be most people are not up for alternatives that involve massively increasing financial hardship in this country or, worse, our troops fighting a war with Russia. It would be an absolutely miserable outcome for Russia to get to keep land it has stolen from the Ukraine, but plenty of other miserable things happen that we don't pile in to avert.

Excellent post

9 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. He is already involved in a proxy war with the rest of Europe so we are involved whether we like it or not. Absolutely miserable isn’t even close to Russia achieving any of its war aims.

So once he's taken Ukraine you think he'll move on to the next country ... then another ... then another and so on?

8 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

So once he's taken Ukraine you think he'll move on to the next country ... then another ... then another and so on?

Do you think he'll accept the Ukrainian land he's already taken, and just stop there?