Purposely posted this away from the former "In Or Out" thread as intertwining this with EU negotiations would be inevitable and this needs to be considered separately IMO.

 

The contributions of all but the UK and the US are shameful. Trying to avoid connecting to EU negotiations but it's difficult when the pillars of the EU are not paying their way and hiding under UK/US skirts for the protection of Europe. They want to try to play hardball with us!!!???

 

I hope the Transatlantic alliance gets stuck right into this and makes sure that, particularly Germany as the biggest net gainer from the EU con trick, pays their fair share.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/31/uk-defence-role-us-eu-michael-fallon-nato-james-mattis-meeting

 

It is only The Guardian mind.

 

 

Is Nato not a bit out dated now?

 

It does seem odd that some nations aren't sticking to "the rules" and paying their 2%

 

A quick Google shows it's only US, UK, France, Turkey, Greece, Estonia and Poland who are putting in at least 2% of GDP

 

I believe Trump said he was going to sort it

I wouldn't say it is outdated mate - not with the Russian bear flexing its muscles and China seeking control of the South China Sea by populating and creating islands etc.

 

You may have a point that it needs to modernise its outlook and that should start with making bloody well sure that all members pay their dues.

There's a delicate balance of power - but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that member states should foot the bill to the extent that they've agreed to. Perhaps we should use the fact that very few of them are paying their dues as a bargaining position when we're negotiating our fee for withdrawing from the EU.

It's generally one of the first things that gets cut following an ecenomic downturn

 

Same thing happened in the 1930's

 

I'm actually with Trump on this, bizarrely enough, think the members should be honouring the 2% commitment

It's generally one of the first things that gets cut following an ecenomic downturn

 

Same thing happened in the 1930's

 

I'm actually with Trump on this, bizarrely enough, think the members should be honouring the 2% commitment

Give it 10 years and you'll be agreeing with Trump and Farage.????

In ten years Trump will be in disgrace and exile. Farage will be castigated as a quisling throughout the UK.

Purposely posted this away from the former "In Or Out" thread as intertwining this with EU negotiations would be inevitable and this needs to be considered separately IMO.

 

The contributions of all but the UK and the US are shameful. Trying to avoid connecting to EU negotiations but it's difficult when the pillars of the EU are not paying their way and hiding under UK/US skirts for the protection of Europe. They want to try to play hardball with us!!!???

 

I hope the Transatlantic alliance gets stuck right into this and makes sure that, particularly Germany as the biggest net gainer from the EU con trick, pays their fair share.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/31/uk-defence-role-us-eu-michael-fallon-nato-james-mattis-meeting

 

It is only The Guardian mind.

As always it's left to the US and UK the majority of the world and sadly given their gravitas the likes of Germany, France, Italy, Spain (utter disgrace shows them up for what they truly are) not paying their due, no doubt hedging their bets in case Russia ever get the upper hand.

Edited April 1, 20179 yr by Mounts Kipper

Not surprising some of those on the 'Good Guy's' list are on the Russian border, - & the likes of busted £lush Greece are only hitting their quota due to still having Conscription in place. 

 

If Spain et al want to slip Gibraltar in to the equation, then it's fair game to slide in Nato payments if/where possible...

 

R. 

Russian nationalism covering up poor economy and corruption. A dangerous situation, but NATOs efforts might be made easier by Russians getting rid of Putin.

Russian nationalism covering up poor economy and corruption. A dangerous situation, but NATOs efforts might be made easier by Russians getting rid of Putin.

 but Putin's approval rating among Russians is at an all-time high of 90%+.

It began rising when he repossessed Crimea.

but Putin's approval rating among Russians is at an all-time high of 90%+.

It began rising when he repossessed Crimea.

He's fueling nationalism but clamping down on opposition, only last week an opponent was arrested at a rally.

 

Plenty will fall for this, but plenty will be fed up with a poor economy and a sabre rattling leader who is suppressing free speech.

Its happened before and recently, Arab spring etc. Doesn't need a majority either. Saw an expert recently explaining how his leadership is so fragile and based on fear etc. Reckoned as soon as someone manages to challenge him his empire would crumble and he'd probably be executed.

Isn't Nato the reason we've maintained peace in much of Europe over the last 70 years or so?

who knows

 

maybe, maybe not

 

could just be coincidence

 

suppose we could just get shut and find out

 

i mean, so long as we all believe, it'll be reet

Decent idea that, we could put our 2% of GDP into the NHS then instead

no flies on you

I used the four letters NATO. Maybe GLIB would have been more appropriate.

Sorry to break it to the class but we spend nothing like 2%. It only appears that we do because Osborne cooked the books to include things like the troops' pension liabilities. 

 

Trump has a point but what he is effectively saying is that you are not our ally and we won't help you unless you pay. Which is the same as saying allies don't matter.

Serious question...why do the US need NATO? Could they not just fuck us small fry off and look after themselves?

Serious question...why do the US need NATO? Could they not just fuck us small fry off and look after themselves?

The only ever invocation of NATO Article 5 (you can google it) was to support the US

Whenever the us tries anything they seem to crash their helicopters.

Serious question...why do the US need NATO? Could they not just fuck us small fry off and look after themselves?

Moscow is outside the range of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles from the US.

Edited April 2, 20179 yr by RoadRunnerFan

On the Parliament channel today I watched a defence commaittee's session on the US, NATO and UK defence relationship. I'm a reet interesting bloke me. Anyway, it was interesting. It really was. Col Bob Stewart MP was on it. I like the cut of his jib.

On the Parliament channel today I watched a defence commaittee's session on the US, NATO and UK defence relationship. I'm a reet interesting bloke me. Anyway, it was interesting. It really was. Col Bob Stewart MP was on it. I like the cut of his jib.

What was said; are we doing enough etc?

What was said; are we doing enough etc?

Sort of went down the lines of are we (UK) too dependant on the US, and if we are pulling our weight. To which the answer was we do know of our short falls, mainly in resources, but we make up for it in other areas. Trump's bluster is what it is. The UK is totally at odds with the new administration. But fortunately the US generals are a bit more sensible. But they​ do agree that Europe do need to add more in commitment and cash. Also the US aircraft carrier fleet is shit and rusting away. It's a good job that we have got a couple of new carrier's on the way.

Isn't Nato the reason we've maintained peace in much of Europe over the last 70 years or so?

 

Talk about the UK going to war with Spain over Gibraltar began WITHIN A WEEK of Article 50 being triggered. Whatever the context, a prominent British politician even suggesting the possibility of a return to War in Europe is a massive step backwards.

 

And yes, I know NATO and the EU are separate (though intrinsically linked) organisations, but it shows how delicately balanced these International Treaties are.