Farrelli Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Whatever it was the message was loud and clear. Not based on very much truth though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 21, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Farrelli said: I think NHS, Law and Order as well as national security and the environment are huge issues. But they don't cause much of a split within a party. Tories are generally happy with their economic approach and labour have theirs. Not likely to be much of a split on those grounds. The dissatisfied few on the tigs ranks will need to coalesce around a set of policies, if they are to become a serious force, and that could well be their difficulty. A collapse of Corbyn and his momentum led party may bring about more support, but again this would probably mean a more traditional labour type of movement. Don't really see much opportunity for it yet. Obviously, should Corbyn succeed, and a very left wing shift occurs then maybe. I just don't think he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Farrelli said: Not based on very much truth though. The TRUTH is staring you in the face and has been for the last 2years, the EU and it’s unelected, undemocratic, gravy train riders are bleeding us dry They are not our friends, they are only interested in our £39Billion bribe to please let us trade on our own terms The will do their best to make sure the UK or any other country cannot leave their Ponzi schemes Democracy my arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Farrelli said: Not based on very much truth though. It’s facile to say that and a bit condescending. And probably untrue. We had 40 odd years of creeping federalism, non-democracy and overbearing bureaucracy. The British people looked at it and saw a different, better, future for themselves. I’m sure lots would want the race run again, as that is what the EU do; vote until you get the right answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Moon boy said: The TRUTH is staring you in the face and has been for the last 2years, the EU and it’s unelected, undemocratic, gravy train riders are bleeding us dry They are not our friends, they are only interested in our £39Billion bribe to please let us trade on our own terms The will do their best to make sure the UK or any other country cannot leave their Ponzi schemes Democracy my arse The £39B pays for existing committments that we will still honour and be a part of as part of the deal. Prior to Brexit vote our economy was often the leading G7 economy in the world since then it lags behind right at the bottom. How exactly is that bleeding us dry? We paid for market access which in turn made our economy far stronger than it was pre EEC....those are the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Be reet https://www.ft.com/content/016171be-4a74-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The £39B pays for existing committments that we will still honour and be a part of as part of the deal. Prior to Brexit vote our economy was often the leading G7 economy in the world since then it lags behind right at the bottom. How exactly is that bleeding us dry? We paid for market access which in turn made our economy far stronger than it was pre EEC....those are the facts. Some of the facts and some weeded out and some opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Times are a changing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47648086 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: Only if we don’t leave. I'm confused where you are now Mounts. If Mays deal gets passed (and I think it will, as she's pretty much blackmailing the house now) are you happy or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 43 minutes ago, boltondiver said: 43 minutes ago, boltondiver said: as that is what the EU do; vote until you get the right answer! Is this not also what May is doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: What a horrible bunch of cunts we we have in parliament, voting to take no deal off the table, utter traitors and deserve everything they get come the next election. You say that, but I bet 75%-80% of those in there now retain their seats, and dip their noses in the trough for a few more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sweep said: Is this not also what May is doing? Yes, I think so And then blaming others If it looks and smells like a shit deal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just now, boltondiver said: Yes, I think so And then blaming others If it looks and smells like a shit deal..... Oh it is a shit deal, looks like its what we might end up with. Leavers won't like it, Remainers won't like it either. The EU will love it. Well done May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 21, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Sweep said: Oh it is a shit deal, looks like its what we might end up with. Leavers won't like it, Remainers won't like it either. The EU will love it. Well done May Isn't that inevitable; as a compromise, many won't like it. To be honest, I can't see any deal that would please many. Perhaps it should have been no deal from the outset. Then negotiate a trade deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Sweep said: Oh it is a shit deal, looks like its what we might end up with. Leavers won't like it, Remainers won't like it either. The EU will love it. Well done May Its looking more likely that the deal won't pass. Given the reaction from MPs to last night's speech. MPs who backed it last time even are now saying they won't do so this time round.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Sweep said: I'm confused where you are now Mounts. If Mays deal gets passed (and I think it will, as she's pretty much blackmailing the house now) are you happy or not? I am now firmly in the turn Mays deal down, based on Tusk threatening us to accept and remainers trying for a second referendum on Mays deal or remain. My position has hardened and I expect the ERG AND DUP feel the same. Take it to the wire and beyond. Nuclear option bring it on. Edited March 21, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 21, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I am now firmly in the turn Mays deal down, based on Tusk threatening us to accept and remainers trying for a second referendum on Mays deal or remain. My position has hardened and I expect the ERG AND DUP feel the same. Take it to the wire and beyond. Nuclear option bring it on. Pure speculation, but I reckon if the vote isn't positive next week, then rapid steps will be taken to prevent no deal. They'll have to be quick, but after last night, there might be more of a mood for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I am now firmly in the turn Mays deal down, based on Tusk threatening us to accept and remainers trying for a second referendum on Mays deal or remain. My position has hardened and I expect the ERG AND DUP feel the same. Take it to the wire and beyond. Nuclear option bring it on. The problem now is the ERG cannot lose. If they vote her deal down she either takes us out via a no deal Brexit OR is forced by parliament (as is likely) to seek a long delay which if the EU grant means she will have to immediately resign given she said she won't as PM allow us to extend beyond end of June. So May goes in that scenario and although we'd have a long delay the ERG would be able to get a Brexiteer candidate up for leadership. So I'm unconvinced that it makes that much sense for the ERG to vote for her deal and the speech last night gave them the perfect indignant reasoning not to. Clearly she'd given up with the ERG and was focussing on Labour MPs - but miscalculated massively as some backbench Labour MPs were working on a plan with Tory whips to let them support the deal based around concessions on negotiating the next phase. But her speech last night meant that those MPs are now not inclined to vote for her deal either as they feel she's a busted flush and any promises might well be meaningless. Her only hope now IMHO is that she manages to seriously convince either the ERG that voting it down is definitely a 2 year delay OR convince Labour MPs that if they vote against it she WILL 100% take us out Friday with no deal. The problem being that so far she's never been prepared to throw her weight fully to one position and put her eggs in one basket. And if she continues to try and spread her eggs - its doomed to failure because both sides will believe their way will prevail..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 21, 2019 Members Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: Times are a changing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47648086 Further evidence of what the lefties have sown. Full blown reaping has yet to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The problem now is the ERG cannot lose. If they vote her deal down she either takes us out via a no deal Brexit OR is forced by parliament (as is likely) to seek a long delay which if the EU grant means she will have to immediately resign given she said she won't as PM allow us to extend beyond end of June. So May goes in that scenario and although we'd have a long delay the ERG would be able to get a Brexiteer candidate up for leadership. So I'm unconvinced that it makes that much sense for the ERG to vote for her deal and the speech last night gave them the perfect indignant reasoning not to. Clearly she'd given up with the ERG and was focussing on Labour MPs - but miscalculated massively as some backbench Labour MPs were working on a plan with Tory whips to let them support the deal based around concessions on negotiating the next phase. But her speech last night meant that those MPs are now not inclined to vote for her deal either as they feel she's a busted flush and any promises might well be meaningless. Her only hope now IMHO is that she manages to seriously convince either the ERG that voting it down is definitely a 2 year delay OR convince Labour MPs that if they vote against it she WILL 100% take us out Friday with no deal. The problem being that so far she's never been prepared to throw her weight fully to one position and put her eggs in one basket. And if she continues to try and spread her eggs - its doomed to failure because both sides will believe their way will prevail..... There is no chance of a long delay from what the EU have said today and on that I can agree with them. Edited March 21, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: There is no chance of a long delay from what the EU have said today. That's what they are saying and they might well stick to it. But they also said they would convene an "emergency council" if there was another deal rejection vote.....which hints that it might not possibly be their last word on the subject. And a few commentators had leaks from inside government that suggested the possibility of a long delay was being discussed with the EU in the background. Remember that money has been released to prepare for EU elections - so clearly whilst publicly May and EU have ruled it out I wouldn't say its out of the question. Certainly some in EU are hardening and just want us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Pure speculation, but I reckon if the vote isn't positive next week, then rapid steps will be taken to prevent no deal. They'll have to be quick, but after last night, there might be more of a mood for it. I reckon she'll bring it back, if it doesn't pass, then she resigns, which will trigger a GE.......which in turn will see the EU give us a longer extension, up to 2 years - that's my guess. I do think something will happen to prevent us going WTO at the end of the month - we don't want it (in the main) and the EU don't want it, so I'd expect it'll be stopped (although no before JRM and the like make another fortune, shorting the pound again 😉) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: There is no chance of a long delay from what the EU have said today and on that I can agree with them. what they say "today" and actually do "tomorrow" might be very different things. If May resigns or is ousted, then a long extension would be agreed........once/if that happens, then we'll not be leaving at all I don't think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sweep said: I reckon she'll bring it back, if it doesn't pass, then she resigns, which will trigger a GE.......which in turn will see the EU give us a longer extension, up to 2 years - that's my guess. I do think something will happen to prevent us going WTO at the end of the month - we don't want it (in the main) and the EU don't want it, so I'd expect it'll be stopped (although no before JRM and the like make another fortune, shorting the pound again 😉) May resigning does not necessarily trigger a GE. It means the Tory party have a leadership contest. As I understand it there would have to be a vote of no confidence in parliament against the government and its less likely that would succeed if May goes...she would probably stay on as PM until the Tories pick a new leader OR Liddington would step up as deputy. No way will any backbench Tories vote against the government in that position - trigger a GE with no Tory leader....what a mess that would be for them. IF May loses the vote next week and tried to press on with leaving with no deal I suspect that's when Corbyn might launch a vote of no confidence and probably win to stop a no deal exit and force a GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Joint TUC and CBI letter - weird - but essentially shows that the PM has lost trust of enemies and allies alike.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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