paulhanley Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Ani said: Of the Leave vote in the referendum do you agree that if there more options such as leave with a deal and leave with no deal the result could have been different ? By definition if you put three, four or five options on a ballot paper rather than two the result will be different. Irrespective of the subject being voted upon. You're asking about the difference between a soft and hard Brexit. I could equally ask whether you'd have accepted various shades of remain on the ballot paper. The trouble is, once you get away from a binary choice, it's very unlikely one side will get more than 50 per cent which means entrenched opponents of the outcome have even more opportunity to seek to undermine a result they didn't want. I'm saying that in a theoretical way rather than in one that directly addresses a vote/referendum on the subject of EU membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Pete, for your sanity, take a step back mate. The latest EU election has no bearing whatsoever on the main event does it ? Most leave voters in the real event couldn’t be arsed with the Euro tosh, stats prove that, whereas stats also prove the remain voters turn out was high. The remain voters would turn out for the opening of an envelope, but it is just meaningless, jejune bravado which counts for nothing in the grand scale of things. I accept that the turnover was low Si but the Brexit party was getting their vote out for sure. You just had to. Listen to PH and Mounts chattering on about the start of a political revolution with Farage at the helm. I would argue that the remain vote underperformed yet still won in actual numbers and the % vote. No one has showed one link to the contrary and i have given 4 or so from different perspectives... The facts are a plain to see Edited May 31, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ani said: The facts are that the original referendum was flawed. But we can not just erase those results and the impact on us all. The only option is to get the best deal we can. Remainers wanting to ignore the first vote are wrong but equally Leavers who think a 52/48 majority gives a mandate to go to the furthest extreme are equally flawed. I agree with you, we already have a deal that remainers should have supported in parliament, the only reason they did not is party political, most of ERG would reluctantly accept the WA with a small change to the backstop, to be this close and still be fighting for a second referendum or to reverse Brexit beggars belief, thankfully the public have made it quite clear by only voting for the Lib Dem’s in relatively small numbers, certainly no where near big enough to make it happen. Edited May 31, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, paulhanley said: By definition if you put three, four or five options on a ballot paper rather than two the result will be different. Irrespective of the subject being voted upon. You're asking about the difference between a soft and hard Brexit. I could equally ask whether you'd have accepted various shades of remain on the ballot paper. The trouble is, once you get away from a binary choice, it's very unlikely one side will get more than 50 per cent which means entrenched opponents of the outcome have even more opportunity to seek to undermine a result they didn't want. I'm saying that in a theoretical way rather than in one that directly addresses a vote/referendum on the subject of EU membership. So not one bit of independent analysis to support your position but just assumption and conjecture..laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, paulhanley said: By definition if you put three, four or five options on a ballot paper rather than two the result will be different. Irrespective of the subject being voted upon. You're asking about the difference between a soft and hard Brexit. I could equally ask whether you'd have accepted various shades of remain on the ballot paper. The trouble is, once you get away from a binary choice, it's very unlikely one side will get more than 50 per cent which means entrenched opponents of the outcome have even more opportunity to seek to undermine a result they didn't want. I'm saying that in a theoretical way rather than in one that directly addresses a vote/referendum on the subject of EU membership. I read your posts on here and I do not think you are a ‘thick rascist’. You have a different view on this than me but respect those views. Surely you can see that asking a binary question to a non binary question can only lead to a muddled outcome ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I agree with you, we already have a deal that remainers should have supported in parliament, the only reason they did not is party political, most of ERG would reluctantly accept the WA with a small change to the backstop, to be this close and still be fighting for a second referendum or to reverse Brexit beggars belief, thankfully the public have made it quite clear by only voting for the Lib Dem’s in relatively small numbers, certainly no where near big enough to make it happen. Very blinkered view to ignore the SNP and Greens. You are only ignoring them because it does not suit your agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 If I ask ‘ I am off to the bar, anyone want a pint ?’ I then comeback with 10 pints of scrumpy cider with Pernod top. Some people won’t be happy. If I also say ‘ok what do you want’ the situation is improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: Both parties campaigned on an anti brexit stance Sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ani said: Very blinkered view to ignore the SNP and Greens. You are only ignoring them because it does not suit your agenda. The greens always do well in Eu elections folk didn’t vote for them because they are anti Brexit, the SNP are just an anti U.K. party so don’t register I’m afraid. And still if you add those 2 in to the mix and labour and Tory voters who would vote to leave it still looks pretty close to 50/50 leave remain. This is precisely why we need to leave on something similar to the deal already agreed but with a renegotiation of the backstop. Edited May 31, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: The greens always do well in Eu elections folk didn’t vote for them because they are anti Brexit, the SNP are just an anti U.K. party so don’t register I’m afraid. And still if you add those 2 in to the mix and labour and Tory voters who would vote to leave it still looks pretty close to 50/50 leave remain. The only valid stat I’ve seen from the recent election was from the poll undertaken by Lord Ashcroft. No doubt some will have read And others won’t have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: I accept that the turnover was low Si but the Brexit party was getting their vote out for sure. You just had to. Listen to PH and Mounts chattering on about the start of a political revolution with Farage at the helm. I would argue that the remain vote underperformed yet still won in actual numbers and the % vote. No one has showed one link to the contrary and i have given 4 or so from different perspectives... The facts are a plain to see Pete, Check fully as to who actually turned out in their drives to vote on a meaningless pan of piss. You’ll find it was the remain voters. As I asked you directly earlier, but a question you avoided, and that’s the first time in three years you’ve not replied.........please answer which SINGLE party won the most MEP seats ? No waffle, no elongated answers, no diversionary tactics....just a straightforward answer if you can pal.... Go on son, I know you’re itching to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ani said: I read your posts on here and I do not think you are a ‘thick rascist’. You have a different view on this than me but respect those views. Surely you can see that asking a binary question to a non binary question can only lead to a muddled outcome ? I'm not so sure it's a non-binary question. As a principle I think it's absolutely the right question to ask. I agree with you that there then follows a secondary question - what type of future relationship do you want with the EU - either as a member (for those who want to remain) or as a non-member (for those who want to leave). The trouble is - as a leave voter, - there's been such endless abuse of the "thick racists" variety over three years that you become suspicious of the motives when a line of questioning seems to want to muddy the waters on the outcome of the 2016 referendum. That's polarisation - but it's polarisation caused by extremist remainers. I know for a fact that had the outcome in 2016 been remain I'd have accepted it. I'd have remained frustrated with the EU and I'd have articulated that - but I wouldn't have gone in to denial that a majority of those who turned out disagreed with me and I wouldn't have been calling for a second vote. Such behaviour lacks any democratic values or integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: The greens always do well in Eu elections folk didn’t vote for them because they are anti Brexit, the SNP are just an anti U.K. party so don’t register I’m afraid. And still if you add those 2 in to the mix and labour and Tory voters who would vote to leave it still looks pretty close to 50/50 leave remain. This is precisely why we need to leave on something similar to the deal already agreed but with a renegotiation of the backstop. That is most laughable analysis of the stance of UK political parties on Brexit i have ever heard😂😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Pete, Check fully as to who actually turned out in their drives to vote on a meaningless pan of piss. You’ll find it was the remain voters. As I asked you directly earlier, but a question you avoided, and that’s the first time in three years you’ve not replied.........please answer which SINGLE party won the most MEP seats ? No waffle, no elongated answers, no diversionary tactics....just a straightforward answer if you can pal.... Go on son, I know you’re itching to TBP won the most seats, where have questioned that? I have checked and the anti brexit vote is bigger than the brexit vote... Triple FACT as you like to say😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said: TBP won the most seats, where have questioned that? I have checked and the anti brexit vote is bigger than the brexit vote... Triple FACT as you like to say😂 Nobody has or can prove that analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 · 6h So, with all Q1 2019 interim GDP stats in (bar Canada), time to update G7 growth figures, esp. for slow leaners (yes, you, Giles of the FT). Change Q1 2019 on Q1 2018: US - 3.2% UK - 1.8% Canada - 1.6% Q4 France - 1.2% Japan - 0.8% Germany - 0.7% Italy - 0.1% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Nobody has or can prove that analysis. I have provided 4 different pieces of analysis from differing political spectrums, within which it's accepted they make educated assumptions on who voted for who. Every bit of analysis i can find has remain ahead so show me anything to the contrary please other than disparaging what i have shown Edited May 31, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: TBP won the most seats, where have questioned that? I have checked and the anti brexit vote is bigger than the brexit vote... Triple FACT as you like to say😂 I am a Remainer. I agree with your breakdown of the results. But to claim a non direct vote with a much smaller turn out trumps the referendum or gives a mandate to change direction does not work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, Salford Trotter said: I have provided 4 different pieces of analysis from differing political spectrums, within which it accepted they make educated assumptions on who voted for who. Every bit of analysis i can find has remain ahead so show me anything to the contrary please other than disparaging what i have shown Aassumption + analysis = proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Ani said: I am a Remainer. I agree with your breakdown of the results. But to claim a non direct vote with a much smaller turn out trumps the referendum or gives a mandate to change direction does not work for me. I agree, we can only work on what we have in front of us but i am countering the view that Leave was the outright winner and from what we can see they weren't. I would love to make voting compulsory as they do in Oz then we would have no grey areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ani said: I am a Remainer. I agree with your breakdown of the results. But to claim a non direct vote with a much smaller turn out trumps the referendum or gives a mandate to change direction does not work for me. Thank you Ian. A man or reason always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Aassumption + analysis = proof? Show me differently then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: I have provided 4 different pieces of analysis from differing political spectrums, within which it's accepted they make educated assumptions on who voted for who. Every bit of analysis i can find has remain ahead so show me anything to the contrary please other than disparaging what i have shown You are sounding desperate now pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said: Show me differently then? I’m really not bothered. as I said earlier, to me......trivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, miamiwhite said: You are sounding desperate now pal. Not desperate at all, not one piece of analysis to prove me wrong suggests it's the other way round😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.