madthatter Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) This one will be popular If you'd asked me I'd have said India Edited August 14, 2017 by madthatter
Escobarp Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I would've said India or Pakistan. Racism towards whites in India from my own experience is outrageous
Sweep Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I know it's one point of view but stats don't lie. Stats can lie, you can manipulate figures to tell you almost anything you want, as well you know
madthatter Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Stats can lie, you can manipulate figures to tell you almost anything you want, as well you know Fair point but in relation to the video and its theme they are hard to refute - which was what I was getting at as well you know Granted, if you only look at cold stats it paints too 'analytical' a picture but in terms of rubbishing arguments that promote the idea of WP they are pretty illuminating.
madthatter Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I would've said India or Pakistan. Racism towards whites in India from my own experience is outrageous They're 'racist' to their own kind because they were born in the wrong financial bracket but excuse it with some mumbo jumbo that rich elites justified and preached 1000s of years ago. It appalls me, frankly. I think their view of whites is interesting. They don't really like 'us' but we have money so they tolerate us as its good for business. The more i learn about it the more I have admiration for those who led the Raj. They played a canny game Edited August 14, 2017 by madthatter
Escobarp Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I don't think it's interesting I think it's racist. They tolerate and in parts hide the racism due to a desire to get our money I agree with that. But its still racism Edited August 14, 2017 by Escobarp
madthatter Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I don't think it's interesting I think it's racist. They tolerate and in parts hide the racism due to a desire to get our money I agree with that. But its still racism I should probably have used inverted commas. I agree. What i meant was that it's interesting how racist a nation can be compared to ours (and similar democratic western nations) and yet our own people (who've probably never actually seen or encountered racism) seem to think all whites are stone cold Hitlers. My worry, as I've blabbed on about before, is that there is always a reaction. The white supremacy stuff is a rather sad and predictable reaction to that kind of thinking; which is why it frustrates me so much.
Carlos Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 This is a football site, folk posting on shit like this more than football have lost the plot. I'm quite happy to close this forum, as I've said before, you are justifying my stance.
e2e4 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 This is a football site, folk posting on shit like this more than football have lost the plot. I'm quite happy to close this forum, as I've said before, you are justifying my stance. 'todays news , tomorrows fish and chip wrapping' is even more true in the rolling news internet era .. be forgotten when summat else happens.
Sweep Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Vanilla ISIS And the power of Twitter managed to get one of them sacked. Not a great weekend for him really..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4786826/Nationalist-FIRED-Twitter-names-shames-protesters.html
bolty58 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 This is a football site, folk posting on shit like this more than football have lost the plot. I'm quite happy to close this forum, as I've said before, you are justifying my stance. ???????? What an interesting contribution to a discussion on extremism. Before you close this down (I suspect because more than a few express views which do not coincide with your own), just re-read your post and think about what you are saying. If you can't see the irony, there's little hope for you.
Mixu Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 No, no . . . not a cnut, Mixu, but privileged. I was referring to gonzo specifically.
bolty58 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 I see that Trump has now come out and done what he should have earlier (I note that he did say extremism from all sides however - not ignoring violence from the so called anti-fascist opposition). There's a lot of people still don't understand what democracy actually means like having to cope with views of others which you find odious and abhorrent without resorting to counter protests and attacks. I remain amazed that across the southern states of the US they are allowed to display Nazi regalia with impunity. There wouldn't be many places in the world you could do that these days would there?
kent_white Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 I see that Trump has now come out and done what he should have earlier (I note that he did say extremism from all sides however - not ignoring violence from the so called anti-fascist opposition). Exactly the same thing as JC got pilloried on here for a few weeks back.
madthatter Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) ???????? What an interesting contribution to a discussion on extremism. Before you close this down (I suspect because more than a few express views which do not coincide with your own), just re-read your post and think about what you are saying. If you can't see the irony, there's little hope for you. Skip to no. 10 at around 4 mins - this guy really does cut to the quick of the matter. Oh and Carlos, i read the football stuff and comment every now and then. As I rarely get to the match these days I am reluctant to post much for fear of folk saying my opinion on such matters is worthless fwiw - i don't like to agree with no.7 but he has a point and would probably school me if I tried to argue my pov with him on that matter. Edited August 15, 2017 by madthatter
Zico Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 There's a lot of people still don't understand what democracy actually means like having to cope with views of others which you find odious and abhorrent without resorting to counter protests and attacks. Whilst others don't understand that free speech doesn't mean people have to accept what you're saying and to not expect a backlash when you say it These nazi's are no different to someone like Abu hamza standing outside a mosque preaching hate
madthatter Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Whilst others don't understand that free speech doesn't mean people have to accept what you're saying and to not expect a backlash when you say it These nazi's are no different to someone like Abu hamza standing outside a mosque preaching hate True; but there's a backlash in terms of words and reasoned argument and then there's mindless, deliberate violence. Antifa then are no different to the Russian hooligans in the last world cup. Did you hear about that Google employee who was sacked for sending out a memo? Longer term it's as worrying as any Islamic terrorism or white supremacists imo if groups with such power and influence can silence those who do nothing more than ask questions.
madthatter Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Exactly the same thing as JC got pilloried on here for a few weeks back. But no different to how Obama responded to similar incidents at the start of his tenure. jsl (I can offer a link if you're arsed)
Zico Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 True; but there's a backlash in terms of words and reasoned argument and then there's mindless, deliberate violence. Antifa then are no different to the Russian hooligans in the last world cup. aye, and there's a difference in freedom of speech and spreading hate, so it's all relative to me I'm not really arsed if Antifa take it to the Nazi's or not, but the reaction is not surprising given what they are spouting everyone on here condemns Nazis as much as they condemn extreme Isalmics I just don't buy the caveat that yeah it's shit, but this is democracy, or you should defend their right to say it, even if you disagree that's bollocks there's a line for me at which you can't defend any of it, and they've crossed it, just like anyone who preaches hate does I'm no Antifa fan but I'm happy for them to get stuck into these Nazis as much as I'd be happy for someone to get stuck into any extreme islamics spouting their shite
madthatter Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) aye, and there's a difference in freedom of speech and spreading hate, so it's all relative to me I'm not really arsed if Antifa take it to the Nazi's or not, but the reaction is not surprising given what they are spouting everyone on here condemns Nazis as much as they condemn extreme Isalmics I just don't buy the caveat that yeah it's shit, but this is democracy, or you should defend their right to say it, even if you disagree that's bollocks there's a line for me at which you can't defend any of it, and they've crossed it, just like anyone who preaches hate does I'm no Antifa fan but I'm happy for them to get stuck into these Nazis as much as I'd be happy for someone to get stuck into any extreme islamics spouting their shite I agree, mainly. On the bold bit though I think it's being clear on where free speech becomes incitement to violence, 'terror' or harming other peoples freedoms. I don't know enough about the aims of those who marched but know it started over a petition to remove a statue, to which they disagreed with. That would be fair enough, wouldn't it? It is clear that the other lot went with no other intention than to cause violence. I watched a group of 'lefties' pull down a similar statue in response and the police did nothing . . . that's a bit fooked up! As is this whole mess. Edited August 15, 2017 by madthatter
Zico Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 I don't know enough about the aims of those who marched but know it started over a petition to remove a statue, to which they disagreed with. That would be fair enough, wouldn't it? it's not a petition, there's been a democratic (remember that is important here) vote to pull it down they voted to pull it down because of what it represents, it really should be time to move on from that past, not celebrate it - something that is happening across southern states and cities already so the nazis turned up with torches and their heil trump chants and arm gestures there's ways they could have gone about it that could be regarded as "fair", but that's not one of them - for me it's difficult to place their counter protest in the freedom of speech bracket knowing this was coming, it's true that antifa were only going with one intention, and someone from the right chose to try to kill them, presumably his intention was never to carry out a peaceful demonstration either antifa might be no angels, but they're well within their rights to turn up and tell this lot to fuck off
madthatter Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 it's not a petition, there's been a democratic (remember that is important here) vote to pull it down they voted to pull it down because of what it represents, it really should be time to move on from that past, not celebrate it - something that is happening across southern states and cities already so the nazis turned up with torches and their heil trump chants and arm gestures there's ways they could have gone about it that could be regarded as "fair", but that's not one of them - for me it's difficult to place their counter protest in the freedom of speech bracket knowing this was coming, it's true that antifa were only going with one intention, and someone from the right chose to try to kill them, presumably his intention was never to carry out a peaceful demonstration either antifa might be no angels, but they're well within their rights to turn up and tell this lot to fuck off I didn't realise the act had actually been passed to remove it via democratic channels; they can still protest it though right, so long as they don't cross 'that line'? Just like folk can ask for a new vote on Brexit . . . Whether 'they' did or not is unclear but I suspect both sides turned up for a scrap. What worries me is that down the line the actions of such weapons will lead to the ceasing of all public protests. Perhaps this is why the authorities keep standing back? Tin foil hat time there though Personally, I feel let the statue stand as it highlights history, good and bad. General Lee as an e.g. was far from a bad guy and not all white southerners were pro slavery, just caught in the middle . . . Would you be in favour pulling down the statue of Cromwell because it offended some Irish folk?
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