Coronavirus

[Escobarp]

Just now, kent_white said:

Nurses can't even wear short skirts and suspenders any longer. Being able to air my testicles in comfort was one of the main reasons I joined. It's political correctness gone mad!

There’s an image I’m not forgetting in a hurry sadly Kent 😱

[kent_white]

Just now, Escobarp said:

There’s an image I’m not forgetting in a hurry sadly Kent 😱

[Escobarp]

Just now, kent_white said:

Tbf for what your doing for us we should be queuing up to offer to Fan your bawsack to keep you suitably cool 

[Morizio]

26 minutes ago, kent_white said:

If I've understood it correctly - it's people being asked to consider a DNACPR on admission while they still have the capacity to make the decision.

Even if they choose not to sign the DNACPR - the medical team (Dr's and Consultants - not Nurses) can decide not to attempt CPR if they don't think it's in the patient's best interests. They usually will though - even if it's a bad idea - just because that's human nature. And that's where the tragedies set it. People dying in pain a few hours later because they've been inappropriately ressucitated. The staff need to live with the consequences too.

Have you seen the policy?

 

Consent is a grey area. I’m sure you agree on this. If a person is ill and requiring hospitalisation are they really in a position at that time to give informed consent?

[Mounts Kipper]

24 minutes ago, L/H White said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-13-care-home-residents-die-after-suspected-covid-19-outbreak-11968475

Four seasons care home, we supply them. First I’d heard. Very sad. 😢

[Mounts Kipper]

27 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I still think the government response has been pretty good. Not perfect but could have been a damned sight worse. I'd go 7/10 at the moment.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the NHS would have been able to do a better job if it hadn't been underfunded for the past decade. But that's not the fault of this government directly.

And there you have it. Good effort by the government, not perfect but I’ll take those comments as a positive. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Morizio]

9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

They all worked for Benny Hill. 😂

😂

I’m hoping that I’m better looking than Benny  Hill

[Morizio]

13 minutes ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said:

You should have gone bupa mate 😁

Bed baths with happy endings after steak and chips 🤣

[Morizio]

9 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Nurses can't even wear short skirts and suspenders any longer. Being able to air my testicles in comfort was one of the main reasons I joined. It's political correctness gone mad!

🤢🤮

[bwfcfan5]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

And there you have it. Good effort by the government, not perfect but I’ll take those comments as a positive. 

Why is this about politics for you? It’s about people’s lives. Where things have gone wrong they need challenging. If politics means we have sacrificed ventilators at speed then it needs challenging because it’s about saving lives. Now Starmer will be involved and I think that de politicises this and makes it about getting things right to keep people alive.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Why is this about politics for you? It’s about people’s lives. Where things have gone wrong they need challenging. If politics means we have sacrificed ventilators at speed then it needs challenging because it’s about saving lives. Now Starmer will be involved and I think that de politicises this and makes it about getting things right to keep people alive.

It’s not about politics for me, if you ever posted anything positive about how the Tories are dealing with this then I’d believe it wasn’t about politics for you. 

[kent_white]

14 minutes ago, Morizio said:

Have you seen the policy?

 

Consent is a grey area. I’m sure you agree on this. If a person is ill and requiring hospitalisation are they really in a position at that time to give informed consent?

Yes we had to study it quite extensively at Uni. 

Most people who come through A&E are able to give informed consent. Nobody will be getting asked about a DNACPR decision while they aren't able to understand all the information.

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s not about politics for me, if you ever posted anything positive about how the Tories are dealing with this then I’d believe it wasn’t about politics for you. 

You’ve not looked very hard then have you. 

[peelyfeet]

18 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

In that we need to assess what happened when this is over, I’m assuming the government are doing the best they can right now, but inevitably we will find out some things could of been done better, it has to be factored in that no one knows the scale of what’s coming and that presents logistical problems.  

Our government have already given unprecedented levels of financial assistance to business and workers, built new hospitals up and down the country, mobilised the armed forces, delivered millions and millions of PPE, are trying to get more ventilators are asking U.K. businesses to help develop new designs and deliver them quickly and all this and much more in less than 1 month. 

I’m in no doubt there will be an inquest when this is over and that inquest will highlights failings ( no government is perfect) but also massive successes,  it’s findings can only help us if this ever happens again. 

The governments of the west are all culpable to a certain extent, and not just the current ones, we could easily have had stockpiles of PPE, ventilators, or at least the mechanisms in place to ramp up production easier. Pandemic management wasn't very high on the agenda though, despite warnings from some. Sure it will be from now on.

Governments are going to be measured on how quickly they responded, we were slower than many, that's a fact.

They're also going to be measured on how they deal with the lockdown after the min peak - I think we will wait and see what other western countries do. We have a more resilient economy than most, we will be able to stay in lockdown longer, and learn from those who relax the restrictions before us.

Mounts - we will see if we are like Italy or not in the next week - if we go over 800 consistently the signs are that we will be worse - Italy have plateaued for 15 days, average of 805 per day,. 

we need to be plateauing before them, we'll should see this in under a week

[Morizio]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

Yes we had to study it quite extensively at Uni. 

Most people who come through A&E are able to give informed consent. Nobody will be getting asked about a DNACPR decision while they aren't able to understand all the information.

I mean the new policy which is what we’ve been debating. What an other poster alluded to at Fairfield hospital. 
 

Re the deciding to end treatment, I take it that the decision making is documented and available for scrutiny at an inquest. I believe that AMRA would cover it any case. 

[kent_white]

If you think this is bad - wait for the next big Coronal Mass Ejection.

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

The governments of the west are all culpable to a certain extent, and not just the current ones, we could easily have had stockpiles of PPE, ventilators, or at least the mechanisms in place to ramp up production easier. Pandemic management wasn't very high on the agenda though, despite warnings from some. Sure it will be from now on.

Governments are going to be measured on how quickly they responded, we were slower than many, that's a fact.

They're also going to be measured on how they deal with the lockdown after the min peak - I think we will wait and see what other western countries do. We have a more resilient economy than most, we will be able to stay in lockdown longer, and learn from those who relax the restrictions before us.

Mounts - we will see if we are like Italy or not in the next week - if we go over 800 consistently the signs are that we will be worse - Italy have plateaued for 15 days, average of 805 per day,. 

we need to be plateauing before them, we'll should see this in under a week

What’s your gut instinct on this. 

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Morizio said:

I mean the new policy which is what we’ve been debating. What an other poster alluded to at Fairfield hospital. 
 

Re the deciding to end treatment, I take it that the decision making is documented and available for scrutiny at an inquest. I believe that AMRA would cover it any case. 

Yes all treatment in hospital is supposed to be documented down to the last detail - so it would all be available at inquest. I expect there will only be inquests in extraordinary circumstances in the coming weeks and months though.

I've never heard of AMRA though so I'm not sure. What is it?

[kent_white]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

What’s your gut instinct on this. 

I think we will. Nailed on. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

The governments of the west are all culpable to a certain extent, and not just the current ones, we could easily have had stockpiles of PPE, ventilators, or at least the mechanisms in place to ramp up production easier. Pandemic management wasn't very high on the agenda though, despite warnings from some. Sure it will be from now on.

Governments are going to be measured on how quickly they responded, we were slower than many, that's a fact.

They're also going to be measured on how they deal with the lockdown after the min peak - I think we will wait and see what other western countries do. We have a more resilient economy than most, we will be able to stay in lockdown longer, and learn from those who relax the restrictions before us.

Mounts - we will see if we are like Italy or not in the next week - if we go over 800 consistently the signs are that we will be worse - Italy have plateaued for 15 days, average of 805 per day,. 

we need to be plateauing before them, we'll should see this in under a week

I think you missed China, as the original culprits.

This should not be forgotten.

[Traf]

CHI - NA

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think we will. Nailed on. 

I think the next 72 hours are pivotal, government have changed how they report the deaths and a truer picture should emerge. 

[peelyfeet]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

What’s your gut instinct on this. 

honestly I think we are going to have a higher peak than Italy, but I hope we will plateau for less time and our figures will drop off faster, all depends if the hand washing, social distancing worked a few weeks ago. I hope it did.

I was social distancing a month ago, mainly because one of my sons had to go into isolation after a school trip to Italy - i had to move out with another son, went to the lake district for 10 days and saw no-one. 

My brother is a HR bod for a global company (they make kettles and door locks and pet food among other things) and he could see what was happening earlier than most, so he was early too

I hope that there were others.   

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I think the next 72 hours are pivotal, government have changed how they report the deaths and a truer picture should emerge. 

NHS is geared up for the worst. Let's hope they've gone in balls deep and it's not needed.

[Morizio]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Yes all treatment in hospital is supposed to be documented down to the last detail - so it would all be available at inquest. I expect there will only be inquests in extraordinary circumstances in the coming weeks and months though.

I've never heard of AMRA though so I'm not sure. What is it?

Access to medical records act 1988

and that documenting that goes on is in order to give accountability, transparency and to ensure the process has been lawful. Thereby complying with the human right act article 2. 
 

Which, if Fairfield have gone off on a tangent and now doing their own thing where they are asking over 50s with the disease to sign a form about DNAR, are they acting lawfully and thereby not breaching article 2.