How come there isn't a thread for this ?

Is it because they've revealed their true colours, excuse the deliberate pun.

Folk were warned re their true intentions, but as always called racist by the naive.

1 minute ago, ZicoKelly said:

welcome aboard

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/11/10/premier-league-distances-black-lives-matter-campaign/

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/10/premier-league-drop-black-lives-matter-badge-from-shirts-for-own-campaign

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4178139/premier-league-display-no-room-for-racism-instead-of-black-lives-matter-on-kits

 

To be fair, it’s not just me that missed the change, here’s what the national press have said about the protests at Millwall on Saturday... 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/06/laurence-fox-piers-morgan-clash-millwall-fans-booing-blm-protest-13710363/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/12/05/millwall-fans-booed-black-lives-matter-protest-condemned-football/

https://news.sky.com/story/millwall-fans-boo-as-players-take-the-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter-movement-12152275
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-derby-black-lives-matter-boo-the-den-take-knee-b178851.html

Clearly a hell of a lot of people are still of the opinion that it’s in support of BLM 

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

I actaully think taking the knee has been hugely productive. It creates this, and to face uncomfortable issues for everyone. That is the only way change happens. That isn't just shutting down those who boo, but getting to the point of why, otherwise we don't have this discourse, and its needed.

to a degree, I just hope they all do it for the right reasons and not because they have to and it doesn't become an empty gesture, I agreed with Ferdinand on that one 

it would be good to see more Rashford's of the world do something that can be seen to be striving for equality in society, that's what will make the difference for me

1 minute ago, birch-chorley said:

To be fair, it’s not just me that missed the change, here’s what the national press have said about the protests at Millwall on Saturday... 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/06/laurence-fox-piers-morgan-clash-millwall-fans-booing-blm-protest-13710363/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/12/05/millwall-fans-booed-black-lives-matter-protest-condemned-football/

https://news.sky.com/story/millwall-fans-boo-as-players-take-the-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter-movement-12152275
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-derby-black-lives-matter-boo-the-den-take-knee-b178851.html

Clearly a hell of a lot of people are still of the opinion that it’s in support of BLM 

still lots of work to be done then

but

we've been at this for 24/48 hours now, and seems like progress is being made

like crawley just said, this is why the knee isn't a bad thing, or the booing as such, it gets people talking and understanding where each other is coming from

that's the only way to progress

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

But its an issue that should be de-politised, to do that would be to neuter it. By its very nature its a political issue, and not simple.

Out of interest, I'd be interested why people are so anti-BLM? @birch-chorley said he doesn't agree with it fundementaly - devils advocate - what on here do you not agree with? I probably know but I just thought i'd check https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

I appreciate that they have changed the site so it no longer includes all the stuff around ending capitalism and ending ‘western prescribed nuclear family’ however let’s not pretend that was never in there 

However, I’m led to believe that the BLM protests in the U.K. have nothing to do with the ones in America, or the American political movement anyway 

The U.K. BLM protests seemed to be making the case that in the U.K. our system is ‘systemically racist’ to the point that it favours white people over non whites. So much so that an independent review is taking place. I fundamentally disagree with that position, I believe this country is fair and the system views all of us equal whatever your skin colour. For me that’s where the BLM got very political and I don’t want to see it associated in our national sport. I wouldn’t want other political ideologies such as Momentum on the left or pro Brexit positions on the right championed at the football either 

Thats it for me, I think given it has a very divisive political element to it, it shouldn’t be part of sport. If footballers et al want to champion anti racism in sport then that’s great, it just needs a clear line of differentiation from the left / right political stuff for me personally 

8 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

still lots of work to be done then

but

we've been at this for 24/48 hours now, and seems like progress is being made

like crawley just said, this is why the knee isn't a bad thing, or the booing as such, it gets people talking and understanding where each other is coming from

that's the only way to progress

Still no progress on your hatred of the Gypsie race though? 😂😃👍🏻

1 hour ago, jmjhb said:

The fans won't win this one

F-A-N-S...

That isn’t the correct spelling. What you need here is B-I-G-O-T

“If you want change be prepared for it to be uncomfortable before it becomes comfortable”

- Dr Rudy

3 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

to a degree, I just hope they all do it for the right reasons and not because they have to and it doesn't become an empty gesture, I agreed with Ferdinand on that one 

it would be good to see more Rashford's of the world do something that can be seen to be striving for equality in society, that's what will make the difference for me

Yeah agree, the thing is what might be an empty geture for some, ight not be for others which is why I think its needs doing, if it exposes the wider population (certainly liberal areas which dominate the news) that not everyone is onboard with this, then it helps open this up - as long as we do't get to''you're just a racist, rather - ''why did you want to boo this gesture and please don't give me crap about Marxism.'' 

Lets stop skirting round the issue. Some people don't believe systemic racism exsists because its not as visabe as it was 20 years ago. I dunno, I still see it in the workplace where in a city where 44% of the population is lack or ethnic minority there is one black person out of 70. In educational stats, in the segmentation of wealth numbers, in the percentage of leadership positions, board members, MPs that fail to represent the real make up of the island. It is up to everyone to do something, maybe something radical, who knows, but we don't get anywhere by just taking the easy option and moving discussions like this away from populist arenas. Its important we keep them there.

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yeah agree, the thing is what might be an empty geture for some, ight not be for others which is why I think its needs doing, if it exposes the wider population (certainly liberal areas which dominate the news) that not everyone is onboard with this, then it helps open this up - as long as we do't get to''you're just a racist, rather - ''why did you want to boo this gesture and please don't give me crap about Marxism.'' 

Lets stop skirting round the issue. Some people don't believe systemic racism exsists because its not as visabe as it was 20 years ago. I dunno, I still see it in the workplace where in a city where 44% of the population is lack or ethnic minority there is one black person out of 70. In educational stats, in the segmentation of wealth numbers, in the percentage of leadership positions, board members, MPs that fail to represent the real make up of the island. It is up to everyone to do something, maybe something radical, who knows, but we don't get anywhere by just taking the easy option and moving discussions like this away from populist arenas. Its important we keep them there.

I don’t believe our countries systemically racist because of the data, not because I’ve not seen it with my eyes 

Education - Black Africans, Chinese and Indian groups all perform better than white. A BAME child is more likely to go onto higher education than a white kid in the U.K. 

FTSE 100 boards - they are 7% BAME vs a 14% BAME population. Yet most board members are over 50, not because of age discrimination but because it takes a lifetime of work to get to a board position. The average age of a BAME person is a full 10 years younger than that of a white person in the U.K. (31 vs 41), the BAME % of population over 50 years old is only 9%. Many in the Chinese and Indian groups choose to pursue careers in medicine rather than industry, for me all this indicates that we don’t discriminate on race at board level in the U.K. 

Stop and search - Whilst a Black person is 10x more likely to be stopped, so is a male vs female, so is a young person vs an older person (<30 vs >30). Are the Police discriminating by Race, age and Sex or are those statistics driven by circumstances? Unfortunately our Black community (particularly Black Caribbean, not so much black African) have a major issue with absent fathers, 50% of Black kids grow up without a father figure (vs 20% for white, 1% for Chinese and Indian). Those Black Caribbean kids without father figures are much more likely to drop out of school, turn to crime and carry weapons. Is that the systems fault? Like @ZicoKellysaid about Gypsies, it’s a lifestyle choice more than the system forcing them down that path 

All of this will be looked at it the racial equality review, I look forward to seeing the findings, I think many of the BLM protestors from the Summer won’t be happy with what they see 

18 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Still no progress on your hatred of the Gypsie race though? 😂😃👍🏻

no, but the ball is in their court on that one

15 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I don’t believe our countries systemically racist because of the data, not because I’ve not seen it with my eyes 

Education - Black Africans, Chinese and Indian groups all perform better than white. A BAME child is more likely to go onto higher education than a white kid in the U.K. 

FTSE 100 boards - they are 7% BAME vs a 14% BAME population. Yet most board members are over 50, not because of age discrimination but because it takes a lifetime of work to get to a board position. The average age of a BAME person is a full 10 years younger than that of a white person in the U.K. (31 vs 41), the BAME % of population over 50 years old is only 9%. Many in the Chinese and Indian groups choose to pursue careers in medicine rather than industry, for me all this indicates that we don’t discriminate on race at board level in the U.K. 

Stop and search - Whilst a Black person is 10x more likely to be stopped, so is a male vs female, so is a young person vs an older person (<30 vs >30).  

What about black <30 males versus white <30 males?

1 minute ago, DazBob said:

What about black <30 males versus white <30 males?

Location would be a key factor 

11 minutes ago, DazBob said:

What about black <30 males versus white <30 males?

You’d have to have a look, still disproportionate of course but it narrows it down when you exclude the older population (which tend to be whiter) 

Will narrow again if you look at London Borough level (don’t compare a Black lad in a rough area of London with a Posh white lad from Richmond), think it drops to 1:4 then. If you look in places outside of London such as Liverpool then the statistics are 1:2 

However, all that to one side, should stop and search data have parity? Should males be as likely to be pulled as females, Old people the same as young, Black the same as white or should we allow for nuance based on likelihood that someone is carrying drugs and or weapons? Unfortunately a young black male is more likely to be carrying weapons and or drugs than a young white male in the U.K. 

Is that the systems fault or a cultural difference within that community? 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by birch-chorley

18 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I don’t believe our countries systemically racist because of the data, not because I’ve not seen it with my eyes 

Education - Black Africans, Chinese and Indian groups all perform better than white. A BAME child is more likely to go onto higher education than a white kid in the U.K. 

FTSE 100 boards - they are 7% BAME vs a 14% BAME population. Yet most board members are over 50, not because of age discrimination but because it takes a lifetime of work to get to a board position. The average age of a BAME person is a full 10 years younger than that of a white person in the U.K. (31 vs 41), the BAME % of population over 50 years old is only 9%. Many in the Chinese and Indian groups choose to pursue careers in medicine rather than industry, for me all this indicates that we don’t discriminate on race at board level in the U.K. 

Stop and search - Whilst a Black person is 10x more likely to be stopped, so is a male vs female, so is a young person vs an older person (<30 vs >30). Are the Police discriminating by Race, age and Sex or are those statistics driven by circumstances? Unfortunately our Black community (particularly Black Caribbean, not so much black African) have a major issue with absent fathers, 50% of Black kids grow up without a father figure (vs 20% for white, 1% for Chinese and Indian). Those Black Caribbean kids without father figures are much more likely to drop out of school, turn to crime and carry weapons. Is that the systems fault? Like @ZicoKellysaid about Gypsies, it’s a lifestyle choice more than the system forcing them down that path 

All of this will be looked at it the racial equality review, I look forward to seeing the findings, I think many of the BLM protestors from the Summer won’t be happy with what they see 

That's some fairly niche stats you've pulled out there.

Education - overall BAME sudent do not only perform worse, even if they perform better they average earn less than their non BAME counterparts over a lifetime of work - all stats there to see. Showing not only educational disparity (due to less access to better faciities) I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but have a proper look around the ONS, or Gov.com 

FTSE 100 - So you are bringing age on boards but not for top exes? Also, your agrugment that board positions shoud only be held by old (and inverably) white people doesn't hold much water either. Also you are using pajorative discrimnation (just because a highre % of certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain professions does not lead to there being an issue with unresprestation in others) 

A sfor stop and sreach, you lost the whole point around lifestyle choice. So you are blaming black fathers now? Yes socaity does have a role to play, r are ou saying balck men are fundementaly bad fathers? Many don't fee they have a choice and using one flimsy age stat to prop up a poorly informed point.

There are so many p0ints in this showing where systemic racism actally exsists, I believe this post is an actual ironic commetary on this topic. You are proving my point completely.

2 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

You’d have to have a look, still disproportionate of course but it narrows it down when you exclude the older population (which tend to be whiter) 

Will narrow again if you look at London Borough level (don’t compare a Black lad in a rough area of London with a Posh white lad from Richmond), think it drops to 1:4 then. If you look in places outside of London such as Liverpool then the statistics are 1:2 

However, all that to one side, should stop and search data have parity? Should males be as likely to be pulled as females, Old people the same as young, Black the same as white or should we allow for nuance based on likelihood that someone is carrying drugs and or weapons? Unfortunately a young black male is more likely to be carrying weapons and or drugs than a young white male in the U.K. 

Is that the systems fault or a cultural difference within that community? 

That makes no sense at all.

Just now, Mr Grey said:

Will that court be tarmacced 

And will It have a big fuck off hole in the middle Of it?

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's some fairly niche stats you've pulled out there.

Education - overall BAME sudent do not only perform worse, even if they perform better they average earn less than their non BAME counterparts over a lifetime of work - all stats there to see. Showing not only educational disparity (due to less access to better faciities) I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but have a proper look around the ONS, or Gov.com 

FTSE 100 - So you are bringing age on boards but not for top exes? Also, your agrugment that board positions shoud only be held by old (and inverably) white people doesn't hold much water either. Also you are using pajorative discrimnation (just because a highre % of certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain professions does not lead to there being an issue with unresprestation in others) 

A sfor stop and sreach, you lost the whole point around lifestyle choice. So you are blaming black fathers now? Yes socaity does have a role to play, r are ou saying balck men are fundementaly bad fathers? Many don't fee they have a choice and using one flimsy age stat to prop up a poorly informed point.

There are so many p0ints in this showing where systemic racism actally exsists, I believe this post is an actual ironic commetary on this topic. You are proving my point completely.

Education, please share your data source, everything I can see has the White group performing worse, Chinese and Indian ge really outperform both white and black. Certainly doesn’t indicate a system that favours whites over non whites... 

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/higher-education/entry-rates-into-higher-education/latest

 Main facts and figures

• in 2019, White pupils had the lowest entry rate into higher education (the percentage of state school pupils aged 18 years accepted into higher education)

• in every year from 2007 to 2019, White pupils had the lowest entry rate into higher education

• pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate into higher education during the same period

• entry rates in 2019 were higher for all ethnic groups compared with rates in 2006

• the entry rates for all ethnic groups increased in 2019 compared with 2018

 

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

And will It have a big fuck off hole in the middle Of it?

more likely a caravan and 4x4

8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's some fairly niche stats you've pulled out there.

Education - overall BAME sudent do not only perform worse, even if they perform better they average earn less than their non BAME counterparts over a lifetime of work - all stats there to see. Showing not only educational disparity (due to less access to better faciities) I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but have a proper look around the ONS, or Gov.com 

FTSE 100 - So you are bringing age on boards but not for top exes? Also, your agrugment that board positions shoud only be held by old (and inverably) white people doesn't hold much water either. Also you are using pajorative discrimnation (just because a highre % of certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain professions does not lead to there being an issue with unresprestation in others) 

A sfor stop and sreach, you lost the whole point around lifestyle choice. So you are blaming black fathers now? Yes socaity does have a role to play, r are ou saying balck men are fundementaly bad fathers? Many don't fee they have a choice and using one flimsy age stat to prop up a poorly informed point.

There are so many p0ints in this showing where systemic racism actally exsists, I believe this post is an actual ironic commetary on this topic. You are proving my point completely.

FTSE 100 - I think it’s ridiculous to think that because our BANE community make up 14% of the population they should then make up 14% of every aspect of industry. 

Most board members are older, that’s not because of age discrimination but because it takes time to build up experience

If the BAME community over index in younger age categories and less so in the over 50 group then that would be reflected in the numbers 

Around 50% of the BAME community weren’t born here, they emigrated here at some point. Very difficult to see someone emigrate over, start a new life and get to board level of a FTSE 100 in a lifetime. Many of them came on Visas to work in the NHS, difficult to see them working in the NHS whilst getting to a board of a FTSE 100 

17 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's some fairly niche stats you've pulled out there.

Education - overall BAME sudent do not only perform worse, even if they perform better they average earn less than their non BAME counterparts over a lifetime of work - all stats there to see. Showing not only educational disparity (due to less access to better faciities) I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but have a proper look around the ONS, or Gov.com 

FTSE 100 - So you are bringing age on boards but not for top exes? Also, your agrugment that board positions shoud only be held by old (and inverably) white people doesn't hold much water either. Also you are using pajorative discrimnation (just because a highre % of certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain professions does not lead to there being an issue with unresprestation in others) 

A sfor stop and sreach, you lost the whole point around lifestyle choice. So you are blaming black fathers now? Yes socaity does have a role to play, r are ou saying balck men are fundementaly bad fathers? Many don't fee they have a choice and using one flimsy age stat to prop up a poorly informed point.

There are so many p0ints in this showing where systemic racism actally exsists, I believe this post is an actual ironic commetary on this topic. You are proving my point completely.

I’m not blanket blaming ‘black fathers’ 

However the disparity between single person households in the Black Caribbean community is way out of kilter with the other groups 

Its been flagged before as an issue by many in that very community...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19815831
 

Similar trend in the US 

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html
 

Wouldn’t say David Lammy and Obama are ‘niche’ 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by birch-chorley

8 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Will the washing still be on the line ?

'Theiving Gypsy Bastards' 

It was @radcliffewhite1who nicked your missus’ pantys mate. Told me Not to tell you but I can’t have you blaming the gyppos 

32 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's some fairly niche stats you've pulled out there.

Education - overall BAME sudent do not only perform worse, even if they perform better they average earn less than their non BAME counterparts over a lifetime of work - all stats there to see. Showing not only educational disparity (due to less access to better faciities) I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but have a proper look around the ONS, or Gov.com 

FTSE 100 - So you are bringing age on boards but not for top exes? Also, your agrugment that board positions shoud only be held by old (and inverably) white people doesn't hold much water either. Also you are using pajorative discrimnation (just because a highre % of certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain professions does not lead to there being an issue with unresprestation in others) 

A sfor stop and sreach, you lost the whole point around lifestyle choice. So you are blaming black fathers now? Yes socaity does have a role to play, r are ou saying balck men are fundementaly bad fathers? Many don't fee they have a choice and using one flimsy age stat to prop up a poorly informed point.

There are so many p0ints in this showing where systemic racism actally exsists, I believe this post is an actual ironic commetary on this topic. You are proving my point completely.

With regards your point about average Earnings, I was of the understanding that the Indian and Chinese groups earned more than the White group...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48919813

If the system is rigged in favour or whites over non whites then we are certainly doing a shit job of rigging it 

The Chinese and Indian groups outperform whites in pretty much every aspect of life from school, higher education, average earnings to life expectancy (Chinese and Indian groups live for around 5 years more than white) 

What is it in the culture of the Chinese and Indian groups that allows them to outperform both Black and White groups in every measure? Surely it must be down to cultural differences within each group rather than simply the colour of ones skin 

 

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

But its an issue that should be de-politised, to do that would be to neuter it. By its very nature its a political issue, and not simple.

Out of interest, I'd be interested why people are so anti-BLM? @birch-chorley said he doesn't agree with it fundementaly - devils advocate - what on here do you not agree with? I probably know but I just thought i'd check https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

I disagree. Anti-racism is a moral position.

Restructuring society to give an advantageous opportunity to certain members of it based on their skin colour is a political one.

So take that part away and just leave it as an anti racist protest in its purest form - at the football at least. And leave anybody who disagrees completely exposed for what they really are. 

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Location would be a key factor 

As would the description of a suspect the police are looking for! 

2 minutes ago, kent_white said:

As would the description of a suspect the police are looking for! 

Not if stop and searches are random