How come there isn't a thread for this ?

Is it because they've revealed their true colours, excuse the deliberate pun.

Folk were warned re their true intentions, but as always called racist by the naive.

Thanks Rudy. Always helpful to walk in another"s shoes. Understand it a bit better now i would hope

39 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

This sums up the whole issue better than I ever could. As personal interest I live two minutes walk from Millwall's training ground, as Barney says here, it is an issue not just for the football club but for South East London itself in a incredibly diverse area of the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/07/taking-a-knee-is-a-sign-to-minorities-they-are-welcome-at-football-grounds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Some interesting points being made, I appreciate that in this report they have tried to make it absolutely clear that the football protests have absolutely nothing to do with the BLM movement 

However plenty of other major media organisations are still making those links, I posted one from the Times last night...

The 25 year old Antigua and Barbuda player  said that he felt personally disrespected after a section of the crowed booed when both teams took part in an anti-racism gesture in support of the Black Lives Matter movement 

I think that the media need to make it clear that the football protests are in no way linked to the BLM movement because like it or not that movement represents a political protest much more than it does ending racist abuse in sport 

Sounds like Millwall & QPR are going to be wearing kick it out T shirts and linking arms rather than taking a knee (on the whole), I think that should help distance a simple anti racism message away from a wider political one 

8 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

When you talk about Black People not feeling equal, I’d be keen to know if you think the U.K. is systemically racist? Or is it just isolated incidents of racism that drive it 
 

Still trying to prove a point where there is none to be proven I see. Isolated racist incidents? Did you actually read the post? Societal prejudice is systemic, the fact that not one of Rudy's managers spoke up is systemic racism, its not about shouting racists abuse. That's the connection you continue to fail to make. 

Just now, birch-chorley said:

Some interesting points being made, I appreciate that in this report they have tried to make it absolutely clear that the football protests have absolutely nothing to do with the BLM movement 

However plenty of other major media organisations are still making those links, I posted one from the Times last night...

The 25 year old Antigua and Barbuda player  said that he felt personally disrespected after a section of the crowed booed when both teams took part in an anti-racism gesture in support of the Black Lives Matter movement 

I think that the media need to make it clear that the football protests are in no way linked to the BLM movement because like it or not that movement represents a political protest much more than it does ending racist abuse in sport 

Sounds like Millwall & QPR are going to be wearing kick it out T shirts and linking arms rather than taking a knee (on the whole), I think that should help distance a simple anti racism message away from a wider political one 

I just fail to see that the link was ever between BLM and the booing, it was an easy cover for people to vent a frustration as what they see as battle for their own value, at the expense of others, in an area - as pointed at in the article - remains ungentrified and incredibly diverse.

Also, I'm pleased it has led to discussion on these issues as difficult and as unpleasant as it maybe, its needed. If only for a heartfelt post like Rudy's to stop a few folks in their tracks and think about how far words and actions carry.

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Still trying to prove a point where there is none to be proven I see. Isolated racist incidents? Did you actually read the post? Societal prejudice is systemic, the fact that not one of Rudy's managers spoke up is systemic racism, its not about shouting racists abuse. That's the connection you continue to fail to make. 

I guess it’s down to interpretation of what systemic racism means, for me it’s about Education, healthcare, employment, Welfare etc 

In that regard, I believe we have a fair system, it might need the odd tweak don’t get me wrong but on the whole it’s very reasonable. I certainly don’t think that our system is biased in favour of people with white skin, if it was then why on earth is the average white person so far behind the average U.K. Indian & U.K. Chinese person in every set of data? 

Perhaps I didn’t explain what I meant in my post to Rudy, by isolated I meant more of a non systemic racism, I.e an individual or group of individuals rather than a system. I fully agree that we still have individuals who have racists views but I don’t think it’s ingrained in our system 

I don't think that’s an unreasonable opinion to have 

13 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I just fail to see that the link was ever between BLM and the booing, it was an easy cover for people to vent a frustration as what they see as battle for their own value, at the expense of others, in an area - as pointed at in the article - remains ungentrified and incredibly diverse.

Also, I'm pleased it has led to discussion on these issues as difficult and as unpleasant as it maybe, its needed. If only for a heartfelt post like Rudy's to stop a few folks in their tracks and think about how far words and actions carry.

We’ve never had an issue with booing anti racism events such as kick it out 

Plenty people in this country will have been very unhappy with the BLM protests this summer as they fundamentally disagree with a lot of the messaging 

Having protests at football games that on the face of it seem to support the BLM movement incite those opposing opinions 

If it’s made absolutely clear that the protests are in no way supportive of the BLM movement then I honestly believe the opposition to the protests goes away 

The media need to give that clarity 

45 minutes ago, Ani said:

What a fucking great post. One of our own explains why taking a knee is important based on his personal experience. If taking a knee helps Rudy surely we can accept it just for that and even if not 100% supporting the movement can see that there is no need to boo the action.  

If taking a knee helps black people then great, now we have to work out what to do for the other BAME fans, I’m thinking 2 knees for brown folk, a cart wheel for Far East looking folk a bit of river dance for the travelling community. Hopefully we can KO for about 4pm. Maybe at half time we can do something for all the different religions that come to watch us.

52 minutes ago, Ani said:

What a fucking great post. One of our own explains why taking a knee is important based on his personal experience. If taking a knee helps Rudy surely we can accept it just for that and even if not 100% supporting the movement can see that there is no need to boo the action.  

Indeed, but nah, a bunch of white middle aged blokes know better.

4 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Indeed, but nah, a bunch of white middle aged blokes know better.

Ageist fucker booooo

Sad that Rudy has experienced racism and it should really be sorted by now, however there are lots of other persecuted folk out there, kids subjected to violence at home, wife’s battered by husbands, the world for many is a shite but it’s not rammed down my throat at every sporting occasion, it’s time taking the knee every game was stopped, no issue with a specified day once a season designated to stopping racism but time it was knocked on the head. 

And for the other 364 days they can get to fuck

19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Sad that Rudy has experienced racism and it should really be sorted by now, however there are lots of other persecuted folk out there, kids subjected to violence at home, wife’s battered by husbands, the world for many is a shite but it’s not rammed down my throat at every sporting occasion, it’s time taking the knee every game was stopped, no issue with a specified day once a season designated to stopping racism but time it was knocked on the head. 

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

3 minutes ago, DazBob said:

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

Its on tv every day, bbc news, itv news, sky news, it’s at every sky match I watch, it’s saturated coverage, i think folk are very aware of racism, obviously not you though.  

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Mounts Kipper

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

Do not get me started on pitch side advertising. Oscar ? Who the fuck are they. 

9 hours ago, Rudy said:

This will be my last post in this thread but here’s a story.

When I was a kid I played football and I was decent, got a few player of the year trophies, I was fuckin rapid and scored goals for fun. One game a lad called me a fuckin wog, it got to me. I can still picture the lad now.

This happened quite a bit, and everytime it got to me, I had managers who did nothing.

Growing up when I attended the wanderers matches I loved it, but I witnessed racism that hurt, I got it delivered to myself from home and away fans. 
 

That takes serious strength to continue to go to matches.

I became a professional football coach and I’ve been on the end of racist abuse as a coach, even by fans of the club I work for. 
 

Having a child now who may witness and suffer racist abuse it breaks my heart, I sometimes think you know what I’d die before she got the same treatment as I have done.

Seeing any person be hurt or killed because of the colour of their skin, it takes me back to when I was a kid. It hurts.

Seeing any player suffer racist abuse, takes me back. Breaks my heart.

How in 2020 is this still happening?

Then George Floyd is killed, and I just think how is this happening because of his skin colour, I look at my daughter, she’s the most amazing little thing but she’s mixed race and she might suffer abuse. It upset me, it took me back to my racist experiences. 
Then I see players of all creeds and colours kneeling in front of the worlds audience, saying enough is enough we want equality.

 
It send a sense of pride and emotion through me, I have lived through racism but we now live in a world where I’m less likely to be taken back to that horrible awful place.

If you are fed up of players kneeling, imagine how fed up how black people are of not feeling equal. 
 

Im out. x

Tremendous post👍Great insight and I feel ashamed that you have had to endure that as a Wanderers fan. 

19 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

And for the other 364 days they can get to fuck

They can do it in training, behind closed doors if they feel like they’re missing out on any particular day. 

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

Its on tv every day, bbc news, itv news, sky news, it’s at every sky match I watch, i think folk are very aware of racism, obviously not you though.  

Having something rammed down your throat suggests it's uncomfortable for you. Does 5 seconds at the start of a football match really have that much of a negative effect on your life?

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

Do not get me started on pitch side advertising. Oscar ? Who the fuck are they. 

Slave traders mate. Slave traders.

Bit of a piss take its allowed given the current climate.

27 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Indeed, but nah, a bunch of white middle aged blokes know better.

Think you, and plenty others are completely missing the point.

Nobody is saying racism doesnt exist, and isnt a problem in parts of society.

What Birch is trying to get across is that cold hard data suggests systematic racism isnt as high as political movements like BLM suggest that it is.

Unfortunate, diabolical events that Rudy has faced are dispicable and should never happen, however no amount of kneeling at football matches will stop Neanderthals finding race as a way to insulting somone.

Everybody in this forum is behind tackling racism. Especially in football. But racism in football isnt imo systematic. Isolated incidents of players getting abuse in the modern era is sad, however Id say few and far between.

Like traf says, lets tackle whatever issues need tackling off the pitch.

Kneeling is making the situation worse and adding to the polarisation of the issue.

And before I get accused of being a middle ages white bloke who doesnt have a clue, my brothers wife is black, her kids and family are too.

They too have faced incidents like rudys, however have they faced a disadvantage in life, career, school, football, universities etc? 

Without a doubt no they havent. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, DazBob said:

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

Precisely, the long suffering white middle aged man and those intolerable anti-racist gestures they have to put up with for 10 seconds on a Saturday.

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

And before I get accused of being a middle ages white bloke

Nobody would ever accuse you of being white.

8 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Having something rammed down your throat suggests it's uncomfortable for you. Does 5 seconds at the start of a football match really have that much of a negative effect on your life?

yes, I don’t go to football for to be educated or made aware of the worlds injustices I go to be entertained, to escape from the problems we face in the world.

if I want to get involved I’d go to an organisation and event that supports that particular campaign, football runs a year round kick racism out campaign and that should be enough. 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Mounts Kipper

I genuinely pity you if it has a negative effect on your day. That's not good.

how about a compromise

the players kneel for a few seconds,and those who don't like it can cheer and chant "white army" 

everyone wins

13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Think you, and plenty others are completely missing the point.

Nobody is saying racism doesnt exist, and isnt a problem in parts of society.

What Birch is trying to get across is that cold hard data suggests systematic racism isnt as high as political movements like BLM suggest that it is.

Unfortunate, diabolical events that Rudy has faced are dispicable and should never happen, however no amount of kneeling at football matches will stop Neanderthals finding race as a way to insulting somone.

Everybody in this forum is behind tackling racism. Especially in football. But racism in football isnt imo systematic. Isolated incidents of players getting abuse in the modern era is sad, however Id say few and far between.

Like traf says, lets tackle whatever issues need tackling off the pitch.

Kneeling is making the situation worse and adding to the polarisation of the issue.

And before I get accused of being a middle ages white bloke who doesnt have a clue, my brothers wife is black, her kids and family are too.

They too have faced incidents like rudys, however have they faced a disadvantage in life, career, school, football, universities etc? 

Without a doubt no they havent. 

 

 

What does she think of players taking the knee getting booed?