6 coppers to take him down or 1 member of the public with his bike? 
 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sweep said:

as @Cheese has said, several times, if/when Reform get in, it's going to be most amusing watching them shit on the gullible thickos who will be responsible for voting them in. They're not even attempting to hide what they'll do, yet they'll still get votes.......in the hope it stops boat people coming in (which it won't)

Those who didn’t vote Labour are in the same situation now.

44 minutes ago, Traf said:

I get this, 100%, I do.
You know I do, but...

...there has been non-Aslyum seekers trying to behead folk in the street
...there has been rafts of sexual assault and rape cases by white men and boys all over the country.
...there has been white grooming gangs across the country
...there has been British men wandering around with machetes
...there are loads of Brits also being housed all over the country in HMOs, Hotels and housing schemes putting strain on services.

It's not solely down to migrants, but the cases involving migrants seem to attract far more publicity.

Why is that?

Goes back to the debate on whether we should be allowing thousands of folk from a completely different part of the world with completely different set of values and ways of life to be flooded in to our society, our already crime ridden society at that.

Obviously like you say crimes by asylum folk and the likes will garner more attention from those who want to peddle a narrative but we can't all just pretend the problems aren't there because there's plenty of 'homegrown' crimes.

The rise in Afghanistan sexual assaults is avoidable if they weren't here in the first place...

There already enough wronguns in our country without allowing thousands more in on a monthly basis.

You just can't slam one set of folk into another set of folk and expect everyone to get along and everything run smoothly.

Civilization has never behaved that way.

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

as @Cheese has said, several times, if/when Reform get in, it's going to be most amusing watching them shit on the gullible thickos who will be responsible for voting them in. They're not even attempting to hide what they'll do, yet they'll still get votes.......in the hope it stops boat people coming in (which it won't)

Unfortunately it might be funny at the beginning but ultimately it will effect us all in the end.

This was the long term effect of Liz Truss mini budget and she was only in office for 45 days -

The long-term effects of the 2022 Liz Truss "mini-budget" include permanently elevated UK government borrowing costs, stricter self-imposed fiscal rules, and a heavy toll on household mortgages. Although the most extreme tax cuts were rapidly reversed, the fallout fundamentally reshaped British economic policy.

The primary long-term impacts include:

• Structural Rise in Borrowing Costs: The aggressive, unfunded fiscal expansion shattered international confidence in UK public finances. Long-term government bond yields (gilts) spiked to levels not seen in over two decades, pushing up the baseline cost for the government to service its debt for years to come.

• Higher Mortgage Rates: The shock to the bond and currency markets forced the Bank of England to intervene and raise base interest rates to stabilize the economy. This structural elevation in interest rates directly translated into higher and more volatile mortgage costs for UK homeowners.

• Constrained Fiscal Policy: The severe market backlash over the Truss administration's attempt to bypass the independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) permanently altered the political landscape. It established a rigid, self-imposed straitjacket for subsequent governments, limiting fiscal options to either unpopular tax increases or politically sensitive public spending cuts.

• Pension Sector Resilience: The extreme volatility in the 30-year gilt market brought UK pension funds to the brink of insolvency, forcing an emergency £65 billion intervention by the Bank of England. This resulted in permanent regulatory shifts and stricter risk-management frameworks within the pension and liability-driven investment (LDI) sectors.

• Tighter State Budgets: The shortfall caused by the fiscal event—and the subsequent need to appease bond markets—forced massive readjustments to public spending. This limited the funding available for public services and created long-term pressure on local council budgets and public infrastructure

Now you know why there are so many potholes out there1

Reform could have FIVE YEARS in power.

Just imagine what the next government would inherit and have to fix the best they could?

14 minutes ago, royal white said:

Those who didn’t vote Labour are in the same situation now.

And those who didn't vote Conservative for the previous 14 years.

The majority wins, thems the rules and they are the same irrespective of which political party you support.

26 minutes ago, royal white said:

Those who didn’t vote Labour are in the same situation now.

You won't find me disagreeing.

The problem we have these days, is that a lot (not all) of those who didn't vote Labour, seem to take great delight in every single bit of bad news for the country that is published. Was/Is the same with Brexit, and will also be the same with whoever is in power next time.

1 hour ago, Traf said:

I get this, 100%, I do.
You know I do, but...

...there has been non-Aslyum seekers trying to behead folk in the street
...there has been rafts of sexual assault and rape cases by white men and boys all over the country.
...there has been white grooming gangs across the country
...there has been British men wandering around with machetes
...there are loads of Brits also being housed all over the country in HMOs, Hotels and housing schemes putting strain on services.

It's not solely down to migrants, but the cases involving migrants seem to attract far more publicity.

Why is that?

You would be forgiven for not being aware these 2 incidents recently happened at the hands of mummy's little angels

BBC News

Man who stabbed student to death in Cambridge is jailed f...

Chas Corrigan, 22, will serve a minimum of 22 years for the murder of Mohammed Algasim last August.

Daily Mirror

Harrowing moment racist thug hacks stranger with axe at b...

Brian Patterson struck his victim on the side of the head during the 'vile and premeditated' assault after grabbing the deadly weapon and attacking the total stranger

12 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Goes back to the debate on whether we should be allowing thousands of folk from a completely different part of the world with completely different set of values and ways of life to be flooded in to our society, our already crime ridden society at that.

Obviously like you say crimes by asylum folk and the likes will garner more attention from those who want to peddle a narrative but we can't all just pretend the problems aren't there because there's plenty of 'homegrown' crimes.

The rise in Afghanistan sexual assaults is avoidable if they weren't here in the first place...

There already enough wronguns in our country without allowing thousands more in on a monthly basis.

You just can't slam one set of folk into another set of folk and expect everyone to get along and everything run smoothly.

Civilization has never behaved that way.

The thing is though that no one as figured away to stop them coming in or to get them kicked out.

Not the Conservatives during 14 years in office and not Labour for the last two.

What makes anyone think Reform can do anything about it?

Does anyone even know what their polices are to do this, because I seem to have missed them if they do actually have any?

And to be a bit picky, we as Anglo-Saxons originated from Germany, integrated with the indigenous Celts and the Jutes (who came from Demark) who were already here, assimilated later on with the Vikings from Scandinavia and married with the French who had conquered us in 1066.

Not to mention cooping off with all the Irish that came over to build the canals and avoid the potato famine.

That's our heritage

13 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

You would be forgiven for not being aware these 2 incidents recently happened at the hands of mummy's little angels

BBC News

Man who stabbed student to death in Cambridge is jailed f...

Chas Corrigan, 22, will serve a minimum of 22 years for the murder of Mohammed Algasim last August.

Daily Mirror

Harrowing moment racist thug hacks stranger with axe at b...

Brian Patterson struck his victim on the side of the head during the 'vile and premeditated' assault after grabbing the deadly weapon and attacking the total stranger

They might be beheaders. But at least they're OUR beheaders! 💪

8 minutes ago, kent_white said:

They might be beheaders. But at least they're OUR beheaders! 💪

🙏

BBC News

Rapist jailed for trafficking and abusing girls in Doncaster

Bawan Harwe is jailed for a series of child abuse offences against girls aged 12 to 16.

Literally a case like this on main news every single day.

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

Clearly not, just look at the US, in name it is a democracy, in practice it is not.

Democracy depends on three things that are all equal and all independent of each other an elected government, an elected parliament and an independent judiciary.

Trump as usurped the US parliament equivalent, and appointed the majority of the 'politicised' judges to US's ultimate court, (the Supreme Court) so in effect he can do what he likes - and that is dismantling democracy from within.

Can that happen here - yes it can and no doubt will if the right wing extremist political parties can manage to achieve an overwhelming mandate and enact legislation to keep them in power in perpetuity (that's basically what the likes of Putin and Erdogan have done in their respective country's).

I wouldn't imagine Deliberate Democracy would be able to work, most people these days tend to reject any type of authority and effectively disenfranchising millions of people on the basis they are too stupid to be trusted with a vote would not go down a treat with them, wouldn't you agree?

Fwiw I already believe we've gone past the tipping point, it's pretty clear to see that the majority of people reject Labour and Conservative and believe the right wing populist narrative - you know things like "vote for me and no tax on tips or overtime" (but I will take away your health care and social security benefits to give tax breaks to my billionaire mates) - type of thing.

Christ the leaders of Reform and Restore all have very iffy backgrounds, do people really believe they are going to make the country better for them, or rather as Trump is doing, better for themselves?

I just hope the corruption that will no doubt be coming our way will be too much for people to stomach and in time enough to vote them out (as they did with Orban in Hungry recently).

Not such a rosy picture really is it?

Another requirement for a successful democracy is to protect the rights of minority groups from the will of the majority.

A deliberative approach would engage true cross sections of society by means of "citizens assemblies" selected following the local demographic to study, debate and advise central government on policy issues. This would engage local communities and ensure the "will of the people" is continually considered rather than packaged up into ideological political manifesto packages every four years. Could this help to dilute or minimise the effects of social media by offering real engagement?

Central Government would be constitutionally obliged to follow the recommendations of the citizens assemblies. I have often thought that the economy would be better managed by an AI programme processing the wishes of the people against short, medium and long term trends in the global picture rather than some self centred careerist looking for publicity photographs on building sites in ill fitting PPE.

A recent example of successful democratic deliberation was the reconstruction of New Orleans where citizens groups were heavily involved in the process.

8 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Another requirement for a successful democracy is to protect the rights of minority groups from the will of the majority.

A deliberative approach would engage true cross sections of society by means of "citizens assemblies" selected following the local demographic to study, debate and advise central government on policy issues. This would engage local communities and ensure the "will of the people" is continually considered rather than packaged up into ideological political manifesto packages every four years. Could this help to dilute or minimise the effects of social media by offering real engagement?

Central Government would be constitutionally obliged to follow the recommendations of the citizens assemblies. I have often thought that the economy would be better managed by an AI programme processing the wishes of the people against short, medium and long term trends in the global picture rather than some self centred careerist looking for publicity photographs on building sites in ill fitting PPE.

A recent example of successful democratic deliberation was the reconstruction of New Orleans where citizens groups were heavily involved in the process.

Seriously mate I don't even know where to start.

My background is in the public sector and some years ago I had first hand experience of something similar to what you propose, they were called Citizens Panel's and the idea was that the Council would invite any interested or concerned citizens to be formed into a panel and then be presented as to what various departments at the Town Hall do and seek their opinions as to how we could do it better.

Although the panellist may well have been well intended they could not seem to grasp that councils have finite resources to a satisfy infinite demands - they sought Rolls Royce services whilst the Council had the finances to only provide those of a skateboard.

At the end of the day people don't want to pay any more in Council Tax, so the whole concept of Citizens Panels were quietly shelfed and forgotten about.

As it was always going to be - I think it was a national Labour party brainwave at the time that the councillors of the authority I was then working at offered to undertake.

As for AI it isn't there yet.

Look at GPS that sends people down cul-de-sacs, or VAR that seems to create more trouble than it solves, or Grok who produces nude pictures of women on request - and no, it wasn't me that was doing so.

Government demands Musk's X deals with 'appalling' Grok AI deepfakes

Government demands Musk's X deals with 'appalling' Grok AI - BBC News

As for protecting the rights of the minority, isn't that the very thing that the populist parties want to scrap, get shut of the wokeism and all that?

Trump makes 'two sexes' official and scraps DEI policies

Trump makes 'two sexes' official and scraps DEI policies - BBC News

(DEI - Diversity, Equity and Inclusion)

I think you've backed the wrong horse if you believe the world is going to plump for something like Deliberative Democracy

(Tbh I'd never heard the term previously).

I would say FPTP is an old and now silly way to implement our voting democracy and we need some form of PR these days.

The Tories were always opposed but if Bolty can change his mind then anything is possible.

1 hour ago, burnden said:

Attempted murder.

22 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Seriously mate I don't even know where to start.

My background is in the public sector and some years ago I had first hand experience of something similar to what you propose, they were called Citizens Panel's and the idea was that the Council would invite any interested or concerned citizens to be formed into a panel and then be presented as to what various departments at the Town Hall do and seek their opinions as to how we could do it better.

Although the panellist may well have been well intended they could not seem to grasp that councils have finite resources to a satisfy infinite demands - they sought Rolls Royce services whilst the Council had the finances to only provide those of a skateboard.

At the end of the day people don't want to pay any more in Council Tax, so the whole concept of Citizens Panels were quietly shelfed and forgotten about.

As it was always going to be - I think it was a national Labour party brainwave at the time that the councillors of the authority I was then working at offered to undertake.

As for AI it isn't there yet.

Look at GPS that sends people down cul-de-sacs, or VAR that seems to create more trouble than it solves, or Grok who produces nude pictures of women on request - and no, it wasn't me that was doing so.

Government demands Musk's X deals with 'appalling' Grok AI deepfakes

Government demands Musk's X deals with 'appalling' Grok AI - BBC News

As for protecting the rights of the minority, isn't that the very thing that the populist parties want to scrap, get shut of the wokeism and all that?

Trump makes 'two sexes' official and scraps DEI policies

Trump makes 'two sexes' official and scraps DEI policies - BBC News

(DEI - Diversity, Equity and Inclusion)

I think you've backed the wrong horse if you believe the world is going to plump for something like Deliberative Democracy

(Tbh I'd never heard the term previously).

I don't honestly think that the UK will just plump for Deliberative Democracy without a total collapse and civil war but I do believe our current Parliamentary Democracy based on two parties with a "first past the post" ethic needs reforming, this is evident by the turnover of Prime Ministers and the mass disillusionment out there. Like all reforms it will need to be brought in gradually, devolution of power is a good example and in some ways an example of a deliberative approach.

The power of AI is increasing as we type so don't underestimate it, it will be "there" and beyond very soon... scary but a different topic.

We had a UK referendum for an Alternative Vote system as an alternative to the first Past the Post back in the early days of the coalition but the Tories buried it.

PS... Aristotle was a supporter of Deliberative Democracy, I'm glad I've stimulated your curiosity

BBC News

Asylum seeker who raped woman, 18, in Nottinghamshire par...

Sheraz Malik, 28, was found guilty of two counts of rape by a jury in January.

....and another.

BBC news and their shit stiring news reports eh

22 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I would say FPTP is an old and now silly way to implement our voting democracy and we need some form of PR these days.

The Tories were always opposed but if Bolty can change his mind then anything is possible.

Bolty has only changed his mind as that twat Farage would be nowhere near government otherwise

16 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I don't honestly think that the UK will just plump for Deliberative Democracy without a total collapse and civil war but I do believe our current Parliamentary Democracy based on two parties with a "first past the post" ethic needs reforming, this is evident by the turnover of Prime Ministers and the mass disillusionment out there. Like all reforms it will need to be brought in gradually, devolution of power is a good example and in some ways an example of a deliberative approach.

The power of AI is increasing as we type so don't underestimate it, it will be "there" and beyond very soon... scary but a different topic.

We had a UK referendum for an Alternative Vote system as an alternative to the first Past the Post back in the early days of the coalition but the Tories buried it.

PS... Aristotle was a supporter of Deliberative Democracy, I'm glad I've stimulated your curiosity

Well I suspect he was only a supporter for DD as long as only the Greeks could partake, I doubt the slaves they all had, had any say.

Slavery in ancient Greece

Slavery in ancient Greece - Wikipedia

7 hours ago, Dimron said:

Right of centre is most probably where I sit also but I have a pathological streak of suspicion in my psyche especially when it comes to politicians

Which is understandable.

6 hours ago, Sweep said:

I agree to a point, but if the big 2 are decimated, then that leaves no viable opposition - and we know that's bad, we know that from when recently both Labour and Tory have had landslide victories

At least you're now able to admit, that those you used to champion were also pretty useless

You need to search and find when I moved to 'there's hardly any difference between them'. You'll be surprised how long ago that was. The Conservatives missed a golden opportunity in selecting some of the leaders they did. There was one outstanding candidate in particular.

Vote Reform.

5 hours ago, mickbrown said:

I binned someone from Facebook a couple of weeks ago.

The stuff they were spouting made my shit itch, especially so as they emigrated years ago after an "allegedly" successful criminal career over here.

They can get right to fuck

I've never even been on Faceache or Twatter.

4 hours ago, Traf said:

I get this, 100%, I do.
You know I do, but...

...there has been non-Aslyum seekers trying to behead folk in the street
...there has been rafts of sexual assault and rape cases by white men and boys all over the country.
...there has been white grooming gangs across the country
...there has been British men wandering around with machetes
...there are loads of Brits also being housed all over the country in HMOs, Hotels and housing schemes putting strain on services.

It's not solely down to migrants, but the cases involving migrants seem to attract far more publicity.

Why is that?

Because illegal ones shouldn't even be in the UK.

51 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Bolty has only changed his mind as that twat Farage would be nowhere near government otherwise

Incorrect but crack on.

How's your mate Jeremy going on?