Despite a number of striking options we seem totally clueless once we approach the opposition box. The quality of passing is poor in the final third and we just want too much time. Opposition defences in the top half teams will not allow us the time and space that we seem to need. Is this down to the quality of our attacking players or is it our tactics that are inflexible and easy to read.

7 minutes ago, christopher.dod said:

Despite a number of striking options we seem totally clueless once we approach the opposition box. The quality of passing is poor in the final third and we just want too much time. Opposition defences in the top half teams will not allow us the time and space that we seem to need. Is this down to the quality of our attacking players or is it our tactics that are inflexible and easy to read.

Wait till Saturday Mr Negative! 

After our last papa John victory we went on a good run, scoring goals and winning games in the league.

It can happen again, our strikers haven’t become bad players and our Midfield can/and will improve in providing those opportunities.

Totally clueless is massively wide of the mark.

 

Interestingly negative first post.

Charles alone has missed enough chances to win our last two games.

all teams have a blip in a season, it's nice to be getting ours out the way now 

Joins an hour ago and immedietley declares us shit

Here's my take. The top end of this league is full of Championship players and sides. People think we are in that category, because we won an FA Cup 100 years ago, on played in Europe yonks ago, I dunno. In reality, our main forward came from Accrington Stanley. Afolayan still hasn't shown the form he had at Solihull Moors. It ain't rocket science tbf.

2 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Here's my take. The top end of this league is full of Championship players and sides. People think we are in that category, because we won an FA Cup 100 years ago, on played in Europe yonks ago, I dunno. In reality, our main forward came from Accrington Stanley. Afolayan still hasn't shown the form he had at Solihull Moors. It ain't rocket science tbf.

Even if we have a big stadium? Surely they puts us up there in terms of players 😁

We are in the best position at this stage of the season that we have been under IE, with his record for the second half of the last 2 seasons well known I think we have a great chance of the play offs. Ipswich and Portsmouth having a little wobble so I wouldn’t rule out automatic either, an awful lot of football still to be played.

2 hours ago, christopher.dod said:

Despite a number of striking options we seem totally clueless once we approach the opposition box. The quality of passing is poor in the final third and we just want too much time. Opposition defences in the top half teams will not allow us the time and space that we seem to need. Is this down to the quality of our attacking players or is it our tactics that are inflexible and easy to read.

Good question, I do think clueless is a bit of an exaggeration though.

We have created some big chances and haven't taken them so that falls into the 'quality' camp, but also we are a bit too ponderous on the ball sometimes and then trying to get through a low block isn't always easy, which is in the 'tactics' camp.

So it's a bit of both.

 

Let's look at the goals we've scored and chances we've missed in each league game:

 

Ipswich

Goal: Score a penalty and create very little otherwise.

Big chances missed: Can't think of any.

 

Wycombe

First goal: Counter attack started by trafford, Bradley cuts inside a defender and passes to Dempsey who slots it.

Second goal: Wycombe already 1-0 down so pushing harder to equalise. We win the ball near the halfway line, start a counter, Dapo plays in Morley who has a free run in on goal and buries it.

Third goal: Wycombe have bodies back this time, but all outside their own box. Bakayoko slips in a through ball to Dempsey who has a 1v1 with their keeper slots it in.

Big chances missed: Dempsey had another 1v1 saved after being slipped in, would've been his hat trick.

 

Port Vale

0 goals

Why?: Santos sent off early so had to play safe, massive pitch on a hot day meant it was a bit lethargic. Dapo had a good shot from a tight angle before the red card and keeper made an excellent save.

Big chance missed: Dempsey through ball to Bakayoko who looks like he's in 1v1 but defender gets back well and Baka has a tame shot that's blocked.

 

Morecambe

I didn't watch this live so just going off the highlights...

Goal: Morley drives through midfield, through ball to Kachunga who shows good pace, cuts inside the defender, lays it back to Bodvarsson who manages to square it to Bradley who does a neat turn and good finish.

Big chance missed: Dempsey picks out a good cross from the right and Baka misses a free header.

 

Sheffield Weds

0 goals

Big chance missed: Isn't on the highlights for some reason but Bradley misses a 1v1 HUGE chance, then a minute later Santos/Trafford error. Then another couple minutes later they go 2-0 up, so we're chasing the game and they're a good team who are effective at defending and playing counter. No other massive chances created other than Bradley.

Why did we lose? Missed a big chance, capitulated in 2 mins after it and couldn't get back into the game. Individual errors cost us the game.

 

Plymouth

0 goals

Why? Concede a sloppy goal, Santos error. Chasing the game but not playing very intensely, I was watching on iFollow and we were very patient being 1-0 down, passing the ball around our back 3 a lot on the halfway line.

Big chance missed: Score still 1-0. Work the ball quickly from LWB to the right wing. Bradley puts in a perfect cross for Bakayoko, but he hits it straight at the keeper with a first time shot. Poor finish/good goalkeeping.

Why did we lose? Defensive error, didn't take big chance to equalise, lethargic in possession at times. Mix of tactics/individuals

 

Charlton

Go 1-0 down but comeback to win 3-1

1st goal: win the ball on the halfway line, quickly move it to the left wing, Iredale good cross to back post and Bradley Maradona's it in.

2nd goal: patient build up, Gethin overlaps Bradley, plays it into him. He scuffs his shot but it goes straight to Kieran Lee who has a tap in.

3rd goal: training ground free kick, slipped in sneakily to Charles who plays it across the face of goal. Charlton defenders panic and Johnston has a tap in.

 

MK Dons

1st goal: Patient build up against a low block, Gethin wins a penalty which is scored.

2nd goal: Iredale pinpoint cross from FK, Gethin slams one in off the bar.

Big chance missed: Counter attack, Bradley passes unmarked Charles in the box, instead of shooting first time, takes a bad touch on his left foot and does a tame shot

Why? MK Dons were shite and we were pretty good. But still a bit wasteful with some chances, could have been 4 or 5.

 

Peterborough

Goal: Dapo massive deflection, came from a Trafford long ball, headed back into midfield where Dapo picks it up and shoots quickly.

Big chances missed: Two I can think of that aren't on the highlights reel. First half, Bradley blazes over from close range in a 1v1, similar to the Sheff Weds miss. And Iredale had a massive chance at the backpost second half.

Good value for the win despite the luck with the goal, we should've won anyway.

 

Lincoln

1st goal: Through ball in behind Lincoln defence, Kachunga wins a penalty.

2nd goal: Lincoln defender literally throws us the ball, simple goal capitalising on a defensive mistake. Good finish from Bodvarsson mind.

 

Cheltenham

Can't really think of any massive chances we created. Got drawn into their game and deserved fuck all.

Why did we lose? Whole team played badly with exception of Trafford. Didn't make any big chances to score, or indeed miss. I think if the whole team plays badly, you have to blame the tactics.

 

FGR

Didn't watch this so can't really comment but from Youtube highlights...

Big chance missed x3: Charles free header. Looks like patient build up against a low block. Then Charles also gets played in by Declan John against a low block and keeper saves the 1v1 from tight angle. Then Charles misses another chance from the opposite side after their own defender flicks the ball on and accidentally plays Charles in, not quite a 1v1 but clean through on goal with pressure from defenders around him and keeper rushing out.

Why did we lose? I don't know I wasn't there. But 3 big chances missed in my book is down to individuals over tactics.

 

Barnsley

Against didn't watch it live so can't comment but sounds like Barnsley played a low block mostly

Big chances missed: Second half, vs low block - Gethin puts in a wicked cross to the back post, hits Charles on the leg and goes just wide.

Edited October 19, 20223 yr by Mantra

11 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Here's my take. The top end of this league is full of Championship players and sides. People think we are in that category, because we won an FA Cup 100 years ago, on played in Europe yonks ago, I dunno. In reality, our main forward came from Accrington Stanley. Afolayan still hasn't shown the form he had at Solihull Moors. It ain't rocket science tbf.

Not sure the Accrington Stanley comment is relevant. Many, many players who have very successful careers start out at lower clubs.

That said, it is clear we're still on a building curve.

 

OK, I know that post above is really long, so if you don't wanna read it all here's a break down summary.

 

Types of Goals we've scored: 

Penalties - Ipswich, MK Dons, Lincoln...  All 3 penalties won through possession play, as opposed to a counter attack. Kachunga pen vs Lincoln was a through ball in behind defence but wasn't a counter. TOTAL = 3

Breakaway goals/counters - 2 vs Wycombe. TOTAL 2

Possession goals - 1 vs Wycombe, 1 vs Morecambe, 1 vs Charlton. TOTAL 3

Set-piece goals - 1 vs MK Dons, 1 vs Charlton. TOTAL 2

Counterpress goals - 1 vs Charlton, 1 vs P'bro, 1 vs Lincoln. TOTAL 3

TOTAL GF 2022 - 13 goals in 13 matches

Number of games we haven't scored - 6

 

Types of Big Chances Missed

Penalties - 0

Breakaway/counters - 1 vs Port Vale (Bakayoko), 1 vs Plymouth (Bakayoko), 1 vs MK Dons (Charles), 1 vs FGR (Charles). TOTAL 4

1v1s - 1 vs Wycombe (Dempsey), 1 vs Sheffield Weds (Bradley), 1 vs P'Bro (Bradley), 1 vs FGR (Charles). TOTAL 4

Free headers  - 1 vs Morecambe (Bakayoko), 1 vs FGR (Charles). Both patient build up creation. TOTAL 2

Possession  - 1 vs P'Bro (Iredale), 1 vs Barnsley (Charles). TOTAL 2 (4 if including the free headers)

 

Most big chances missed =

Charles 5

Bakayoko 3

Bradley 2

Iredale, Dempsey 1

 

Reason for Lost Games

Individual errors/lack of clinical finishing - 2 (Sheffield and FGR)

Tactics - 1 (Cheltenham)

Mix of tactics and individuals - 1 Plymouth

 

Reason for Drawn Games

Ipswich - They're a good team.

Port Vale - Early red card for Santos.

Barnsley - Not really sure as I didn't watch it all.

11 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not sure the Accrington Stanley comment is relevant. Many, many players who have very successful careers start out at lower clubs.

That said, it is clear we're still on a building curve.

 

It's totally relevant, that's the market we are shopping in, not Real Madrid.

As a final summary/conclusion. 

We've scored 6 goals from our possession/counter pressing style of play. And all 3 penalties were won from possession play. So 9/13 goals resulting from the tactics we're using, so it is "working". Add into the mix that we've missed 12 big chances in 13 games. And probably a few more decent chances I've forgotten about or weren't on the highlights. So I think at the moment, it's individuals over tactics that are causing the problem. But I do admit in certain games we are guilty of being too patient and lacking intensity. 

The purist style is good to watch but we're still lacking in the set piece department and can't keep losing games like Cheltenham/FGR who are going to make it hard for us.

Only 2 set piece goals from 13 games isn't great. Set pieces are vital, especially at this level, we need someone who can bang in a free kick and someone who can get their head on a corner in these more types of matches.

59 minutes ago, Carlos said:

It's totally relevant, that's the market we are shopping in, not Real Madrid.

strikers like charles, who can take the ball round the keeper to score do not become bad players

i do wonder if evatt is over complicating him at this stage, but im sure he will come out of it a better player

hes not the non stop pest he was when he arrived but thats imo, clearly because evatt will have told him to pick the right chases

also, hes being maybe too precise when he gets chances - again, evatt telling him to take care, hence him piss farting around rather than banging it in

 

fwiw, short term, id prefer the charles we signed, longer term, he will probably be a better player

 

 

i do think too much has been made of the miss on saturday

just seemed to hit him

4 minutes ago, Casino said:

i do think too much has been made of the miss on saturday

just seemed to hit him

I'd agree with this. It was just one of those where you have to hope it rebounds in the right direction and unfortunately for us it didn't.

Personally, I'd try playing both Dapo and Sadlier behind a aingle striker and see how that goes.

Good analysis above.  Noticeable that in the types of goals scored, no mention of a direct free kick or a long range shot. 

We don't have the players starting games (except if Dapo does) that can shoot from any distance.  Compared to last season, when we had the Sheehan free kick, plenty of long rangers from Dapo, Sarce v Shrews, even Doyle at Rotherham, Morley at Gills.  The one I can recall from a player still starting games wthere as Charles at Shrewsbury.  

My only recollection of any long range shots of note this season were both by Morley, at Vale and in a home game he started.  But it seems to be a dieing art, we used to score a high percentage of our goals from outside the box but now the players seem shot shy.  When I see goals round ups, admittedly more the championship than league one, there are stunning strikes every week that just come down to ability not tactics.

as with the 2 corners in 100 resulting in goals stat, therell be one about every 93rd shot from 25 yards goes in

how many has trafford let in from outside the box, this season?

22 minutes ago, Casino said:

as with the 2 corners in 100 resulting in goals stat, therell be one about every 93rd shot from 25 yards goes in

how many has trafford let in from outside the box, this season?

None, we aren't conceding many at all, we've improved defensively and its great to have a good keeper.

I was just thinking about the difference at the other end to last season, one is probably players just out of form so far (Charles mainly but he's not alone), the other is the lack of shots from 20 yards.  I don't expect one every week, but one a month isn't beyond us surely, for a team with our amount of possession.

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

It's totally relevant, that's the market we are shopping in, not Real Madrid.

Obviously, but that doesn't mean they aren't necessarily any good.

We're high up in league one with some lads from non league, so they must be better than that would suggest. 

Your Charles example- he's clearly a talent, just out of form. You suggested that others have players with championship experience, well so have we. That, of itself, doesn't mean anything- its whether they're performing well for those clubs.

I doubt very much any league one team is based solely on players from a higher league, and will have home grown/lower league imports in the mix.

It's entirely about how the teams gel, the tactical noise of the coaches etc. If it was purely about clubs with the best perceived players, then lesser well-off sides would never succeed, which clearly isn't the case.

 

Yeah, obviously. I’d still fancy Man City’s chances more than Brentford to win the league, maybe it’s just me.

Evatt has got us playing a fantastic controlling style of football, 3 seasons in we are averaging more possession (58.5%) now than we probably ever have done.

The pressing, possession our shape is all really high level, and arguably the best in the league. However, in the games where we have dropped points and even the games where we have won, our downfall has been 90% due to individual errors either in our box or the oppositions.

We have lost matches due to a combination of poor defensive errors and poor ability in the final 3rd (bar cheltenham where we were just dogshit from the 1st minute)

Now, to an extent its almost contradictory as I have praised Evatt, yet we are making individual mistakes and have been poor in the final 3rd, and its his job along with the players to correct that.

However, I totally empathise him, especially when its such bad poor errors that are costing us points so far. 

Nevertheless, I couldn't be more confident and supportive of Evatt. We have the best defense in the league for a reason, we are mostly dominating matches like we've never done before, had 2 championship teams from last season come down here and resorted them to playing Sunday league tactics against us.

We are going to have a lot of bumps in the road and we already have done. But I couldn't be more confident of the club currently. If we can just have more composure in the final 3rd and start punishing teams, then the top 6 should be a MINIMUM.

COYWM.

 

 

Edited October 19, 20223 yr by Lostock Whites

53 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

We are going to have a lot of bumps in the road and we already have done. But I couldn't be more confident of the club currently. If we can just have more composure in the final 3rd and start punishing teams, then the top 6 should be a MINIMUM.

COYWM.

 

 

Pretty much my feeling. Given we've been on a 'poor run' you'd think that was a long shot but we sit in 7th and winning our game in hand would take us up to 4th as things stand.

I'm not ready to throw a wobbly about our performances just yet.

15 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

None, we aren't conceding many at all, we've improved defensively and its great to have a good keeper.

I was just thinking about the difference at the other end to last season, one is probably players just out of form so far (Charles mainly but he's not alone), the other is the lack of shots from 20 yards.  I don't expect one every week, but one a month isn't beyond us surely, for a team with our amount of possession.

TI think the reason we are not scoring from distance and i many cases not trying is due to the defences in front of us.   Opposition are sitting back crowding the centre penalty area and the chances of a shot getting through are slim.  We do better when team open up against us.

 

Our build up play is too slow which allows the opposition to get back in numbers making it harder to create.

2 hours ago, Heywoodwite said:

TI think the reason we are not scoring from distance and i many cases not trying is due to the defences in front of us.   Opposition are sitting back crowding the centre penalty area and the chances of a shot getting through are slim.  We do better when team open up against us.

 

I'm not saying that's not a factor, but I just don't see the ability currently to execute a decent shot from distance, if Dapo isn't playing/on form.  The players picked are good players and have loads of qualities, but we don't currently threaten from corners or shooting from any distance.  That's 2 types of goals we don't have the luxury of so we need to make up for the shortfall elsewhere.