Politics

[Jol_BWFC]

11 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

For example China and the US  face lots of tariffs importing their goods into the EU if we set our tariffs lower than the EU do you think they might be interested in doing a deal? The EU is protectionist and 1 country can veto a deal, when we leave we are not part of a group of countries reliant on everyone agreeing a deal, this makes deals hard to do with the EU.  Therefore it’s very likely US and China will want a deal and that it will be agreed much quicker than a deal between 27 countries. Can you wrap your head round that? 

As per the above, this isn’t exactly the best time to be trying to do a deal with the US, is it? Trump won’t agree to anything that isn’t in the US’s interest (at the expense of others).

As for China, of course they will want to do a deal. We have a massive trade deficit with them, so it’s in their interest to use their bargaining power to get a good deal from us. However, the EU is their number 1 trading partner by a huge margin and this is increasing year on year. Don’t expect that to be changing any time soon. You said that individual EU countries can veto a deal, but they already have one in place.

Also, China exports more goods to the EU than anywhere else partly because there is a population of more than 500m. The UK population is around 65m. Services is where we need to be focussing more attention.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

As per the above, this isn’t exactly the best time to be trying to do a deal with the US, is it? Trump won’t agree to anything that isn’t in the US’s interest (at the expense of others).

As for China, of course they will want to do a deal. We have a massive trade deficit with them, so it’s in their interest to use their bargaining power to get a good deal from us. However, the EU is their number 1 trading partner by a huge margin and this is increasing year on year. Don’t expect that to be changing any time soon. You said that individual EU countries can veto a deal, but they already have one in place.

Also, China exports more goods to the EU than anywhere else partly because there is a population of more than 500m. The UK population is around 65m. Services is where we need to be focussing more attention.

You said we would struggle to get good deals, if we offer lower tariffs to China and US we will get a deal. Nothing you say makes me think we won’t get a good deal. 

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You said we would struggle to get good deals, if we offer lower tariffs to China and US we will get a deal. Nothing you say makes me think we won’t get a good deal. 

I wish it was as simple as that Mounts. If we offered free trade deals (i'm assuming you mean that when you talk about lower tarrifs) with the US and China then our home market would be flooded with cheap imports because it will be cheaper to produce goods in lower wage economies than it would in ours. Our home grown industries would struggle to compete and as a consquence jobs would be lost. Our manufacturing base is shrinking all the time as we are predominately a service driven economy, do you want that to shrink further? 

[Spider]

7 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

I wish it was as simple as that Mounts. If we offered free trade deals (i'm assuming you mean that when you talk about lower tarrifs) with the US and China then our home market would be flooded with cheap imports because it will be cheaper to produce goods in lower wage economies than it would in ours. Our home grown industries would struggle to compete and as a consquence jobs would be lost. Our manufacturing base is shrinking all the time as we are predominately a service driven economy, do you want that to shrink further? 

Allow me to step in with a real world example. 

The products we produce in the UK can be made in China for much less. At the moment, it isn’t worth the EU importing them because the tariffs make them more expensive.

if we do a free trade deal with china, thousands of British jobs are likely to go. In a heartbeat.

its tough shit, of course, but at least we’ll be able to get cheap tellies to watch daytime tv on.

 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

9 minutes ago, Spider said:

Allow me to step in with a real world example. 

The products we produce in the UK can be made in China for much less. At the moment, it isn’t worth the EU importing them because the tariffs make them more expensive.

if we do a free trade deal with china, thousands of British jobs are likely to go. In a heartbeat.

its tough shit, of course, but at least we’ll be able to get cheap tellies to watch daytime tv on.

 

 

The evidence I've seen is that we already import far too much shat from China. Just looked at a multi tool in Aldi. Put it back as it was Chinese. As discussed earlier, I try to avoid stuff like that as I've found it generally crap.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

I wish it was as simple as that Mounts. If we offered free trade deals (i'm assuming you mean that when you talk about lower tarrifs) with the US and China then our home market would be flooded with cheap imports because it will be cheaper to produce goods in lower wage economies than it would in ours. Our home grown industries would struggle to compete and as a consquence jobs would be lost. Our manufacturing base is shrinking all the time as we are predominately a service driven economy, do you want that to shrink further? 

Think our manufacturing and exports are growing at the moment, as TMGJ rightly points out many of the Chinese imports are inferior quality we need to continue to manufacture quality innovative products and not try to compete based solely on price.

We don’t have to offer no tariff deals just lower than the EU and we can still protect our manufacturing should we wish based on our needs not the needs of all the EU. 

[Jol_BWFC]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You said we would struggle to get good deals, if we offer lower tariffs to China and US we will get a deal. Nothing you say makes me think we won’t get a good deal. 

Low tariff deals don’t necessarily mean good deals, especially (as pointed out above) if they are with countries who can produce goods much more cheaply. The UK steel industry would be on its arse (more so than it already is).

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

Low tariff deals don’t necessarily mean good deals, especially (as pointed out above) if they are with countries who can produce goods much more cheaply. The UK steel industry would be on its arse (more so than it already is).

We control our tariffs to protect certain areas of business, we don’t have to worry about the likes of Belgium rug manufacturers vetoing deals to protect their own interests. Funny how German steel can compete while our own has suffered while part of the EU.

I trust our government to protect our interest rather than the European Union. 

[Salford Trotter]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Think our manufacturing and exports are growing at the moment, as TMGJ rightly points out many of the Chinese imports are inferior quality we need to continue to manufacture quality innovative products and not try to compete based solely on price.

We don’t have to offer no tariff deals just lower than the EU and we can still protect our manufacturing should we wish based on our needs not the needs of all the EU. 

You've been banging on about the simplicity of negotiating free trade deals all over the world for the last two years, so you don't want free trade deals now? You have also said to others that if we can't compete in that environment then "tough shit". I promise you one thing folk's first buying decision is based on price and presumably we will have required manufacturing standards in place so that anything that is imported has to meet those minimum standards. So cheap imports will still destroy our home grown manufacturing industry but what do you care

 

[Jol_BWFC]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Think our manufacturing and exports are growing at the moment, as TMGJ rightly points out many of the Chinese imports are inferior quality we need to continue to manufacture quality innovative products and not try to compete based solely on price.

We don’t have to offer no tariff deals just lower than the EU and we can still protect our manufacturing should we wish based on our needs not the needs of all the EU. 

And you think low tarrif deals with manufacturing powerhouses like China and the US will help the UK? Perhaps EU tarrifs that are protective of EU manufacturing processes are part of the reason we are currently doing ok?

Are you suggesting that if we offer tarrifs lower than the EU, China will send goods meant for 500m people to a nation with 65m people? Or do you mean they will import our goods - which they can in most cases produce cheaper (hence our massive trade imbalance).

[Mounts Kipper]

13 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

And you think low tarrif deals with manufacturing powerhouses like China and the US will help the UK? Perhaps EU tarrifs that are protective of EU manufacturing processes are part of the reason we are currently doing ok?

Are you suggesting that if we offer tarrifs lower than the EU, China will send goods meant for 500m people to a nation with 65m people? Or do you mean they will import our goods - which they can in most cases produce cheaper (hence our massive trade imbalance).

Are you suggesting because we are a country of 65 million that they won’t sell to us? Of course they’ll still trade with us. They will also import our quality well made branded products in return, there’s plenty of money in China and they want and demand our quality made branded and designer products, as does the U.S.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Jol_BWFC]

17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We control our tariffs to protect certain areas of business, we don’t have to worry about the likes of Belgium rug manufacturers vetoing deals to protect their own interests. Funny how German steel can compete while our own has suffered while part of the EU.

I trust our government to protect our interest rather than the European Union. 

And China will do the same to protect its businesses - so it will all be part of the negotiation of a trade deal. Where we have a trade deficit (and when Jeremy Hunt is in the hot seat) I’m not so sure we hold all the cards.

I’m glad you trust our government though - they have shown themselves very capable during the Brexit negotiations, haven’t they.

[Jol_BWFC]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Are you suggesting because we are a country of 65 million that they won’t sell to us? Of course they’ll still trade with us.

I’m not suggesting that, no. Of course they will trade with us, but they won’t suddenly send all of their EU trade out way, just because we have lower tarrifs than the EU. They will continue to trade with their biggest trade partner (the EU), a trade which is going from strength to strength. 

[Mounts Kipper]

13 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

I’m not suggesting that, no. Of course they will trade with us, but they won’t suddenly send all of their EU trade out way, just because we have lower tarrifs than the EU. They will continue to trade with their biggest trade partner (the EU), a trade which is going from strength to strength. 

And they’ll still trade with us and our imports will be cheaper than now, better for consumers and we will sell our quality products which are in high demand to them. It’s a win win. 

[Mounts Kipper]

44 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

You've been banging on about the simplicity of negotiating free trade deals all over the world for the last two years, so you don't want free trade deals now? You have also said to others that if we can't compete in that environment then "tough shit". I promise you one thing folk's first buying decision is based on price and presumably we will have required manufacturing standards in place so that anything that is imported has to meet those minimum standards. So cheap imports will still destroy our home grown manufacturing industry but what do you care

 

I’ve hardly been banging on about trade deals I’ve banged on about leaving the EU. Even with tariffs we can’t and don’t really want to compete with certain products made in China. Quality made innovative products is where we will succeed and succeed we will. 

[Salford Trotter]

15 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’ve hardly been banging on about trade deals I’ve banged on about leaving the EU. Even with tariffs we can’t and don’t really want to compete with certain products made in China. Quality made innovative products is where we will succeed and succeed we will. 

Your motivation has always been to leave the 'protectionist' EU (as you see it) so we can prosper with free trade deals with the rest if the world. Now you change your position so want to have conditional trade deals based on 'protectionist' principles. Make your mind up what you actually want for once

[Spider]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Think our manufacturing and exports are growing at the moment, as TMGJ rightly points out many of the Chinese imports are inferior quality we need to continue to manufacture quality innovative products and not try to compete based solely on price.

We don’t have to offer no tariff deals just lower than the EU and we can still protect our manufacturing should we wish based on our needs not the needs of all the EU. 

“We can still protect our manufacturing”

no hysterics, no sarcasm - can you explain how we do that? I’m genuinely in need of factual, workable assurances on that exact point.

yours sincerely,

a UK manufacturer.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

Your motivation has always been to leave the 'protectionist' EU (as you see it) so we can prosper with free trade deals with the rest if the world. Now you change your position so want to have conditional trade deals based on 'protectionist' principles. Make your mind up what you actually want for once

I want us to make deals based on what we think is best for our people and our country. You meanwhile want the EU to make deals on are behalf and for the British people to have no say whatsoever. That position is just ridiculous. 

[Mounts Kipper]

20 minutes ago, Spider said:

“We can still protect our manufacturing”

no hysterics, no sarcasm - can you explain how we do that? I’m genuinely in need of factual, workable assurances on that exact point.

yours sincerely,

a UK manufacturer.

The country has been here before you are not the first company or sector that has been decimated by competition. I’ve been in Engineering and experienced redundancy because of competition, same in my current sector textiles. Businesses under competion pressures either innovate and change or fall by the wayside. Perhaps that’s not what you want to hear and I’m sorry you are in that position at the moment,  I have been in the same position, but unfortunately that’s the way of the world and always will be. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[kent_white]

25 minutes ago, Spider said:

“We can still protect our manufacturing”

no hysterics, no sarcasm - can you explain how we do that? I’m genuinely in need of factual, workable assurances on that exact point.

yours sincerely,

a UK manufacturer.

A little birdie told me now is a great time to get into the rug game - no more interference from Belgium means we can reclaim our rightful position as the world's rug kings. 

[bwfcfan5]

In the midst of all this Tory MPs have reportedly told the press that May should ‘bring her own noose’ to this weeks execution as they look to remove her.

The Tories are an undefendable absolute disgrace. A shambolic government and vile backbench. Imagine an election - with two unelectable main parties. What the fuck would happen? Can’t see either coming close to an overall majority.

Edited October 21, 2018 by bwfcfan5

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I want us to make deals based on what we think is best for our people and our country. You meanwhile want the EU to make deals on are behalf and for the British people to have no say whatsoever. That position is just ridiculous. 

Getting you to stick to your position is like nailing jelly to a wall. 

[royal white]

Got to see the 700 million thousand billion on yesterday March knew what they was marching about 

 

 

[miamiwhite]

22 minutes ago, royal white said:

Got to see the 700 million thousand billion on yesterday March knew what they was marching about 

 

 

They’re as numb as piss stones mate........  

 

And we have a winner with moon/mars mon

[Guest]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

In the midst of all this Tory MPs have reportedly told the press that May should ‘bring her own noose’ to this weeks execution as they look to remove her.

The Tories are an undefendable absolute disgrace. A shambolic government and vile backbench. Imagine an election - with two unelectable main parties. What the fuck would happen? Can’t see either coming close to an overall majority.

I think that the Tories will win if they pull off a Brexit coup and Corbyn, or similar loony, is in charge

Big ifs