Ani

I lived in Bradford at the time, on the day of the game i rang my dad jsut he knew i had nt gone to the game, he made a joke about it and I told him to fuck off for the one and only time in my life. I knew a few people who were there and over the years got to know many more, it is amazing the difference in attitude and awareness of this and Hillsborough. No one has really tried to blame any for this and everyone i know who was there is very philosophical about the day.

Burnden also happened in 1946, maybe lessons should have been learned by the time of Hillsborough

So if you live in a house your house gets robbed is that your fault ? Or do you blame the burgalers ? The fact is that a small minority of fans may have contributed ot the events on the day the vast majority did nt but people just use the catch all term of 'fans'. It may not seem important but fans died on the day and then saying fans are to blame is saying the ones who died are culpable. There were reports at the time of loads of Liverpool coaches being stopped by the police on the way down and this why people were late turning up, not sure how much truth in those stories but anyone who had dealings at foorball with police in the area at the time would not be surprised if it was true. Imagine your daughter/brother/friend attended the game, with a ticket, got their early, sober and was killed in the crush you have spent years truying to get the truth and when the story starts to come out people start saying the fans were to blame. Not really justice is it ?

Why are the fans to blame? Mentioned on here serious issues at previous games. State of grounds at the time meant something was going to happen eventually. As for twitter comments they are idiots people discussing this given none of us have read the report and wondering what else might be mentioned is natural. Strange that the independent inquiry was chaired by bishop of Liverpool surely too close to be independent.

The fact that some liverpool fans may have contributed does not mean that all liverpool fans are tainted. My point is that people are say liverpool fans as though they all acted in the same way the fact is that by being at the front probably meant a lot that got crushed at the front got there early and with tickets, probably sober, so why is there so much talk of drunk, late,ticketless fans ?

The people whose job it was to keep the ground and the people in safe failed. They have now been shown to have tried to hide this. Also you may have a point that some fans were drunk, late and without tickets and were a factor .....but the ones who died were probably in the ground early and sober, they died and that is what this is all about. The whole point of a Police force is to protect innocent people, instead they watched as these people died and then tried to cover it up and perpetuate the myth that it was the fans fault, which is just fucking sick.

Back in the day you were branded a criminal by just being a football fan, not being snotty but people below a certain age can have no idea how fans could be treated. The fact is that at that time a lot of football fans behaved in a way that meant this treatment was ignored. When people talk about the magic of Burnden and a lot of the old grounds and you see ends packed with a sea of humanity you can also see that it was inevitable that something bad would happen. The fact it was so bad was the only surprise. So you can argue that fans played a part in this, because if they were nt there it would nt have happene and a lot were not innocent bystanders in that they contributed to the events, but the people whose job it was to look after the safety and well being of people in the ground failed in that duty. Then to make matters worse they tried to pass the blame onto others and cover up evidence of their own faults. It is this fact that matters nothing else. You can argue the fans are in denial about their role but they have not covered up evidence, altered statements etc etc. It is not about blame it is is about justice and the truth, maybe we will now see that.

You clearly have never been to a March meeting at Wetherby, or Friday evening at Pontefract or Doncaster. Maybe Chantilly is comparable to Haydock on Saturday with Scouse and Manc staf dos. Catterick when a few army lads are in town....

Coyle started with an incredible amount of goodwill and more than any manager in living memory at this club he has been a decent chance by the fans. This is now his team, we have mills,knight and ream competing for centre half he does not seem to know what is the best combination then stick with it even with the odd mistake. it is inevitable that if you are worried about making mistake in sport you will make one, simple confidence, the defence lack it and the manager has no idea how to instill it, or he has players he manages and either has recruited or has kept who are not good enough. central midfield has been a joke since the holden injury his subsequent desicions not to play muamba and persisit with a 2 in there even when we were getting over run show a lack of vision during the game. He bought in NRC as the type of player we needed but since he has left he has not replaced like for like, so did we not need a NRC type player and he was wrong to bring him in or do we need such a player and he was wrong not to replace him. playing petrov and lee or eagles outside the two in midfiled makes the postion worse, why have 2 ball players alongside one other ball play in Mavis and leave your self with only one player to actually win the ball ? Look at the stats from any game we simply do not have the ball enoguh, you have to earn the right to play. Upfront he has bought in Ngog who never looked a regular threat last season, lightweight and anonymous, not the biggest transfer fee ever but a player OC bought in, klasnic scored goals and got dropped, skd did not score goals and got dropped, so we sign sordell and did not play him...no one will ever explain to me how a club with little money scrapping for survival spent what little money there was on a player who never played at a time when we needed goals tactically were are terrible , never ever look like holding onto a lead, the later the better at times, not conceding against west brom would have meant staying up. is that fitness , organisation, tactics ?? whatever it lies at the managers door. in this thread you have defended OC because sordell misiing a chance cost 2 points, the lad is not a natural goal scorer you claim, but the problem is that OC went out and signed him for what ever reason, was that why he got left on the bench ? i have presented a series of facts and observations which highlight why OC is a poor manager, it might be he has been unlucky and with different circumstances could be a succes, but at the moment he shows no signs that he has an idea how to turn it round. I am desperate for him to do well, but would love to know why you or anyone thinks this is likely to happen

just been watching the paralympics and was wondering do mean there are a lot or not many at all ?

how about the fans who hounded Nolan out of the club..... Jussi was slagged off on here more than enough... same for taylor and bambi on ice vaz te... obrien was never fit........ maybe our fans are also fuck wits and now have the team they deserve ?

After 2 games only one team has two wins, this will be a very tight league.

fair enough on the first point, respect that. if trott was .1 slower would she have finished second in the time trial behind the aussie whose time she beat by 3 10ths of a second ? now that would put her on same points as the yank, i think, not sure who would get the gold then, think it reverts to total time so assume trott would have won or would the yank ?

why not ? if you can work out things like you have posted here you would make lots of money. Think you mentioned that Trott beat her personal best by 0.1 seconds ? If she has nt would she have won the gold ?

how much did you win?

I was lucky enough to be there last night. The atmosphere, the athletes, the whole thing was incredible. I am no 'billy britain' but last night showed why this country is fucking brilliant, very very proud and very very emotional. They had to delay the presentation for Jessica but when it happened and the national anthem was playing and she was in tears I am not ashamed to say i was a blubbering mess ! We took a 14 year and a 11 year neither of whom 'got it' before the evening session, brilliant. - They were buzzing afterwards.

John Terry just seen boarding a flight to Paris, with a yellow top and a push iron.

Here's the point, what was acceptable 20 years ago is not acceptable now, what was ok 20 years before that might have been frowned on by the next generation etc etc. Advertising a property as 'no blacks or irish' would these days be illegal 20 years ago especially when the IRA were active it was acceptable . If for Society to move along we have to have a few false steps along the way then that is nt too high a price to pay. Smiifs I am sure you would rather your daughters get the chance to grow up in a society that means they have equal rights as the lads they go to school with. That all started because some mad bints decided that women should have the vote and then other rights and eventually treated as equals. You are right that no football manager has ever been sacked because they are black, you get sacked because the results are nt good enough, sport is one area where you can argue people on their talent more than any other as it so easy to compare people, but why should Frandsen have to tell lads to turn the other cheek and ignore rascism ? are we really saying it does nt matter ? does anyone think calling someone a 'nigger' is ok ? if one person decides not pursue a job, an opportunity anything because they are worried they will be picked on because of their colour it is one too many. the good old days were in fact not that good, a society either moves on or it dies, simple evolution, the fact is once everyone is treated equal you have no need for rules and regulations arround it, untill then society needs a few rules to make it better place in the long run for all of us.

My missus favourite event.

That looks like Garp on the poster.

where is selling the new kit other than club shop....ie cheaper ? thanks.

You have hounded Jussi, Nolan and Vaz Te were slated by our so called supporters. Our clubs ability to turn on their own (on and off the pitch) is embarrasing.

Marple if you read all the responses on here you will understand why they have to fine people they do catch. It all the railway companies fault that people will do anything to avoid paying so they have to be cunts to people who travel without tickets. the staff are also very cynical and unhelpful when people come up with an excuse for not having a ticket I wonder why. it is surely not the fault of all the people who jib on for free.

Out of interest does this now mean Grant Holt is nt a money grabbing cunt as people on here were saying. strange how a player with a limited span of career gets slated but for managers it is ok.

He will be on decent money, if we offer an extension we will have to better the money as in 12 months he will be a free agent so he would be giving up the potential of a massive pay day. The club could nt do much last year and there is no reason whilst we are in the championship for him to sign an extension.