Port Vale (A)

[desperado]

3 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

I know pal,

my concern is that his lack of help (DC) puts unnecessary pressure on the team, yesterday we struggled 2nd half it was crying out for someone to come off bench and kill game we just don’t have that, reading away example at 1-1 you bring Jerome & dan on you just know we ain’t scoring

i get you won’t find a Walker & McGinlay but we need something better than we currently have, despite banging goals in early doors we ain’t in the top 3 and this was a flag last season 

I know what you are saying; because the other forwards don’t have the same goalscoring prowess of Charles, when he goes off it significantly reduces our chances of scoring. 

At Reading, (and in other games this season) making those forward subs has made us worse. 

I actually thought yesterday, the forward subs worked out well. Dan and Charles had run their games and I thought with JDB and Jerome on, the ball started to stick better and they helped see the game out to victory.

 

[radcliffe white]

2 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

To be fair I think Vic is starting to show signs of improvement and if Dan would only turn and face goal and use his skill, pace and strength instead of being back to goal I think he’d be a different player too. My concern is the lack of goals from elsewhere which puts more strain on Dion. We’ve never got the delivery right from corners and set pieces for me and that’s where I’d like to see some improvement. I think Evatt sees that too so I think over the season we’ll improve in all these areas.

It’s a slight improvement regarding vic but he ain’t the answer imo unless we get balls into the box, you look at our goal yesterday Charles wanted it and his movement was exceptional no other striker can do that 

[MickyD]

Just watching it back on my shiny new fire stick. Is there any way to make the commentary and picture synchronised?

[Wanderlust]

Blimey an outbreak of common sense.

I think the "doom mongers" thing is complex because there are "happy clappers" on here who say "we're going to batter them 5 nil" in one breath and then say "our signings are shit" in another.

In my case I like to weigh up the opposition's strengths and weaknesses as best as possible but ultimately always come back to it all being about how we perform on the day. I think Nlundulu for example, was shit but he's starting to get better - in fact all our (generally underwhelming) recent signings are starting to make sense. We were worried about replacing Trafford and Bradley but Baxter and JDC have done just fine so far and we don't know what we can afford anyway but overall we're in a good place ATM.

Sometimes I think I'm watching a different game than some folk given the disparity in comments on individuals, team selection and managerial decisions - but that's the beauty of it so I think the doom monger/happy clapper labels are a bit pointless. We'd all do it differently given the chance but ultimately we all want the team to succeed - regardless of the label others feel the need to apply.

 

 

[tomski]

Wins a win and all that. Absolutely love it. 

That said the performance was a carbon copy of Reading. 2nd half needs addressing. 

For balance we looked brilliant in the first half. Should of been out of sight (again)
 

 

[Spider]

We’ll be top of the league this time next week and folk will still be moaning that we don’t score from every set piece.

You know, like every other team on earth does 

Up the fckin whites

[tomski]

13 minutes ago, Spider said:

We’ll be top of the league this time next week and folk will still be moaning that we don’t score from every set piece.

You know, like every other team on earth does 

Up the fckin whites

You can see why the politics thread is so entrenched! 

All or nothing. No middle ground please. 
 

 

[1969]

Imo I thought Dan played well yesterday,held the ball up and brought other's into play

Back 3/5 looked strong and composed on the ball

Good to see Baxter coming off his line and taking the pressure off 

All in all a very good 3 point 's

[captainmed]

If you went yesterday you saw fuck all.

Not been to a game for years where 80 mins plus were played in the other half.

Stand being shallow too didn’t help.

 

[Spider]

1 hour ago, tomski said:

You can see why the politics thread is so entrenched! 

All or nothing. No middle ground please. 
 

 

You can see why the phrase “tongue in cheek” isn’t used much

[tomski]

6 minutes ago, 1969 said:

Imo I thought Dan played well yesterday,held the ball up and brought other's into play

Back 3/5 looked strong and composed on the ball

Good to see Baxter coming off his line and taking the pressure off 

All in all a very good 3 point 's

Bit of a mixed bag with Dan for me. Does the hard work well and gives us something different.

My slight gripe would be his end play/decision making process. Seems to lack confidence or nous. Not sure which.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, bolty58 said:

We said that's when we should take stock. Not looking like the doom mongers will be making much of a contribution. Or will they?

Great finish, excellent result.

I don't quite get this taking stock thing after 10 games, 15 games or whatever.  There isn't a day of judgement, other than the end of the season, and even then there are mitigating factors (luck/injuries/refs etc).  When we were 3-0 down at H-T on  Boxing Day at Carlisle, we were 15th and they were top.  4 months later we were promoted and they finished 10th.  Its a marathon and all that, I won't have a clue how its going to pan out after our 10th game any more than anyone else will but I'll continue to chat shit on each game or individual players/manager's tactics as they happen.

[1969]

1 minute ago, tomski said:

Bit of a mixed bag with Dan for me. Does the hard work well and gives us something different.

My slight gripe would be his end play/decision making process. Seems to lack confidence or nous. Not sure which.

Probably abit of both but hopefully that would get better with more game time.As you say he offers something different which is what you need in most games

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, desperado said:

I know what you are saying; because the other forwards don’t have the same goalscoring prowess of Charles, when he goes off it significantly reduces our chances of scoring. 

At Reading, (and in other games this season) making those forward subs has made us worse. 

I actually thought yesterday, the forward subs worked out well. Dan and Charles had run their games and I thought with JDB and Jerome on, the ball started to stick better and they helped see the game out to victory.

 

That's how I saw it.  All strikers bring something different to the game, but purely in terms of retaining possession/holding the ball up, I'd say the 3 that don't start (JDB, Jerome, Dan) are the best, in that order.  The 2 that start (Vic and Charles) are the worst, so it makes perfect sense to use JDB and Jerome towards the end of a game we're leading 1-0 away, if we're prepared to accept we aren't going to score another.  If Vale had equalised like Reading did, we weren't going to go on and regain the lead without Charles, it was all about protecting what we had and it was relatively comfortable. 

[desperado]

3 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I don't quite get this taking stock thing after 10 games, 15 games or whatever.  There isn't a day of judgement, other than the end of the season, and even then there are mitigating factors (luck/injuries/refs etc).  When we were 3-0 down at H-T on  Boxing Day at Carlisle, we were 15th and they were top.  4 months later we were promoted and they finished 10th.  Its a marathon and all that, I won't have a clue how its going to pan out after our 10th game any more than anyone else will but I'll continue to chat shit on each game or individual players/manager's tactics as they happen.

I see where you are coming from.

But the counter argument is that some  folk make fatalistic, long term negative (and positive - “HMS piss the league”) projections ridiculously early in a season as if we are in some kind of rut that means we won’t get promoted.

Therefore having a timescale that provides some realistic context, like 10 games, isn’t a day of judgement, more of a benchmark nearly a quarter of a season in. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

Milestones, projections and targets are used throughout Sport, not just by fans, but management also. Big Sam and his team were massive on this. Kept in house, but looking at where they wanted to be and how many points at stages of the season.

 

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, captainmed said:

If you went yesterday you saw fuck all.

Not been to a game for years where 80 mins plus were played in the other half.

 

Maybe that's why I thought we played well!  Joking aside, if we'd played in that awful black kit I wouldn't have been able to make out our players at the other end, hopefully we continue to play in the kit we wore yesterday, it looked great (but we won't). 

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, desperado said:

I see where you are coming from.

But the counter argument is that some  folk make fatalistic, long term negative (and positive - “HMS piss the league”) projections ridiculously early in a season as if we are in some kind of rut that means we won’t get promoted.

Therefore having a timescale that provides some realistic context, like 10 games, isn’t a day of judgement, more of a benchmark nearly a quarter of a season in. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

Milestones, projections and targets are used throughout Sport, not just by fans, but management also. Big Sam and his team were massive on this. Kept in house, but looking at where they wanted to be and how many points at stages of the season.

 

Yes I agree the "we've no chance", "we'll piss this league" in August is way too early and never takes into account fixtures, and the usual injuries/suspensions that are yet to kick in.  

Yes if we had 28 pts after 10 games I'd think "we're onto something here" and if we were in the bottom 4 I wouldn't be saying "no problem, we've just not got going yet".  So yes 10 games gives us a clue.  And I think "top half" is a reasonable conclusion, which would be the minimum expectation - tick.  If we beat Stevenage, Carlisle & Northampton, we'll be top 3 easily, with 26 pts from 12 and realistically no complaints at the start made.

But would we be any nearer to knowing if we've either improved on last season, confident of finishing top 2, or capable of beating a Barnsley or Pompey in the play offs?  No idea - we've not been tested enough yet, not helped by our 2 toughest home games being skewed by sendings off, and only playing 4 away compared to 8 at home.  Over the season we are going to have to find a way to score away without Charles, that question isn't going to be answered for a good while yet, we don't even play away again till the end of October.  I don't know how we're doing in the grand scheme of things but it won't stop me enjoying every game and goal and individual good performance.

[Wanderlust]

After 10 games or so we at least have a clue what our signings look like, what the competition is capable of and where we can improve. Of course it isn't definitive, but we know a damn sight more from which to formulate an opinion than before a ball is kicked.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

After 10 games or so we at least have a clue what our signings look like, what the competition is capable of and where we can improve. Of course it isn't definitive, but we know a damn sight more from which to formulate an opinion than before a ball is kicked.

The new signings point is valid, but also backs up that we don't really know yet.  What we do know: Baxter, Cogley, Forrester are good additions.  What we won't know for some time: Ashworth, Mendes Gomez, Maghoma, not only if they are any good generally but where they fit in or if they will become regular starters.  Too early to say.

The same week last year we'd just beaten Lincoln 2-0 and all was right with the world, 20 points from 10 games, joint 5th.  If we win Tuesday we will have the same points after 10 games.  Then we lost at Cheltenham and FGR, drew 0-0 with Barnsley and went 2 down at Accy.  Evatt out!!  Its a rollercoaster and I won't know where its going from 1 week to the next, I'll just (hopefully) enjoy the ride.

[Whitesince63]

6 hours ago, tomski said:

Bit of a mixed bag with Dan for me. Does the hard work well and gives us something different.

My slight gripe would be his end play/decision making process. Seems to lack confidence or nous. Not sure which.

Yes tomski, Dans a bit of a curates egg, good in parts. He does hold the ball up well and plays it on but for me he doesn’t go forward enough. Dion always heads for goal whereas Dan turns away from goal and I think if he was more direct he’d be some player. Obviously Evatt’s working on him and although he works hard, holds up well etc. he’s a striker first and is there to score goals. We know he can do it and I hope as his confidence grows we see more of it. I’m sure as the season goes on both he and Bod will add to their goals column but I’d still like to see a bigger contribution from elsewhere in the team too.

[bolty58]

16 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I don't quite get this taking stock thing after 10 games

OK. I'll learn to get over the disappointment.

I put a significant sum on football betting each week. Not had an unsuccessful season in the seven years since I started this. I have learned to hold back for 6-10 games from the start of the season before launching and then continuing for the total season. Dodgy results usually occur in the early stages of the season. Not exclusively but generally. The clubs we (myself and son) mainly follow usually hit form and embark on winning runs after around 6 games or so.

When the doubters were agitated at our pre season form, there was a general consensus (at least I thought so) that it might be better to take stock after 10 games rather then throw in the towel before the first bell. 

Seems obvious to me that we will end up being serious contenders this season but I may be going off 36 hours too early. I have been wrong before. Big game coming up.

Like most, I would be relieved to hear that we had improved our striking options.

[bolty58]

16 hours ago, desperado said:

I see where you are coming from.

But the counter argument is that some  folk make fatalistic, long term negative (and positive - “HMS piss the league”) projections ridiculously early in a season as if we are in some kind of rut that means we won’t get promoted.

Therefore having a timescale that provides some realistic context, like 10 games, isn’t a day of judgement, more of a benchmark nearly a quarter of a season in. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

Milestones, projections and targets are used throughout Sport, not just by fans, but management also. Big Sam and his team were massive on this. Kept in house, but looking at where they wanted to be and how many points at stages of the season.

 

Very well put sir.

[Deanu]

Much needed win after a sketchy period of league form, first half the big pitch suited us with our build up play but the second half was going to be tough with us not being able to freshen things up when the legs are heavy especially the midfield. A 1-0 away win anywhere is a cracking result, hopefully one or two of our injuries make a nice little earlier than expected return & we can build some momentum from it seeing as we have all the newly promoted teams in quick succession there's loads of points to be won coming up.