In x4

 

Have we ever won here ? Has it ever not be shit ? 

14 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Just doesn't work hard enough for me and is ridiculously selfish.

 

It's why he's in L1 and not higher. Clearly a player there. 

43 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

It's why he's in L1 and not higher. Clearly a player there. 

Athlete and nothing more for me mate.

Thick as mince and selfish. 

Hope he scores the winner at Wembley like

 

18 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Athlete and nothing more for me mate.

Thick as mince and selfish. 

Hope he scores the winner at Wembley like

 

He has bagged a decent number of goals.

Certainly would be more effective if he got his head up a bit more, and was more open to setting teammates up!

Time for them to improve him yet.

Though he can't be spitting his dummy out.

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Most of it has been well covered by now so I won’t repeat those points.

Set up was wrong but I could see what he was trying to do. The no. 10 just does not work, we’ve tried it with plenty of players and RR is the best of them and it still didn’t work. You weaken Dalby’s effectiveness and gain nothing in terms of midfield stability.

Gale gets all sorts of criticism. His decision making was woeful yesterday but anyone questioning his attitude - look at his reaction at the final whistle, we were watching him and he went straight over to the bench and sat in the dugout looking like he was about to cry. He knew he’d had a bad game and had the chances in the last 5 mins to create a winner - I reckon he also can hear the crowd on his back.

I would start Kenny and Dalby up top for every game from now on. It’s a proper partnership and with the pressure off re top 2 or dropping out of the play offs, as much time as possible playing together will give them the best chance to win us the play offs.

Conway isn’t a full back. Someone else has said it but with CBT injured and Apter looking pretty shite, I’d be tempted to go 5 at the back (especially away) and use Conway and Tutu as wingbacks.

This team doesn’t know when it’s beaten. Granted we didn’t get the 3 points but no team will feel comfortable having a lead against us, even at 2-0. Bodes well for the play offs.

Some good points there, and its hard to argue with trying to get a settled partnership of Dalby and Kenny, the only caveat being that at some point we'd want to see a goal return from Kenny, which we have already seen from the other contenders (Burstow, McAtee, Rodriguez, even Dempsey).

As you say this team doesn't know when its beaten, and that's a big plus point.  Its a double edged sword of course because we've also shown signs that we don't know we've won 😀.  Yes we thrashed Exeter -everyone does - but our habit when in the lead is to invite the opposition back into it.  Lately we haven't had much chance to see how we react to being ahead, but thinking of the games in 2026, when have we been comfortable in the lead?  Win lose or draw the play offs, whoever is winning is going to be on the back foot, I think that's a given based on the evidence of most of our games, as said yesterday they aren't going to be 2-0 comfortable games are they?

3 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Some good points there, and its hard to argue with trying to get a settled partnership of Dalby and Kenny, the only caveat being that at some point we'd want to see a goal return from Kenny, which we have already seen from the other contenders (Burstow, McAtee, Rodriguez, even Dempsey).

I’m not sure if this a wind-up!

In just six appearances (three of which were as a substitute), he’s already moved to 4th (level with Burstow and Erhahon) in the number of assists by a Bolton player, this season. He’s also scored a goal.

There are already signs that he’s creating a potent partnership with Dalby that I, for one, think is exciting.

You ask him to get the levels of McAtee. With considerably more game time (eighteen appearances), McAtee has delivered just two goals and a paltry single assist. I certainly don’t want Kenny to aspire to McAtee’s woeful returns.

McAtee can join Randall in the departure suite, at the end of this season, while we should try, once again, to sign Kenny.

Edited March 15Mar 15 by Rival Son

SS, before Wigan (a), did a thing a few managers have done down the years, when in the shit try a different set up. Admittedly it wasn't deep shit but we'd had the poor run over Xmas / New Year, a dispiriting loss at Posh and the miserable night v Port Vale. 

Something had to change or a defeat at Wigan would have sent the negativity into overdrive. He went for 3 at the back, with Conway and Tutu higher up. 

We kept two clean sheets v them and Stevenage, got 4 points and looked like a team who only needed 1 to win. Since abandoning it for a return to 4231 we've kept one clean sheet and turned into a team who needs 3 to win every week.

A good number of our players looked a good deal more comfortable in that 343 shape than they do now, Conway and Tutu in particular, arguably also the likes of Johnston.

SS needs to give going back to it some serious consideration if this current run is 'doing his head in' as reported by Iles. 

5 hours ago, desperado said:

Much easier said than done. And I’d go even further and say it’s near on impossible to get the selection of Sheehan (and all the players for that matter) 100% right, every game. There’s just too many variables with our inconsistent L1 players. 

And let’s not forget we’re on a pretty good consistent run, with inconsistent players, so his selections, subs and changes deserve some credit.

All of this, while experimenting to see how and where the January signings fit in too. 

I’m not against this formation (to start or change to as SS has done this year) and subsequently the discussion around it.

But I think it needs a bit of balance offset about how this good run has essentially come about starting games with a 4-2-3-1. 

We lose most of our potent, attacking threat without wingers. 

5 at the back served a purpose when we needed to address our awful Christmas form. But let’s not forget it was turgid and unconvincing. I’m pretty sure we’d have got found out had we continued with that.

It’s also had a purpose in chasing games late on, throwing on WBs and forwards for defenders. 

Another misnomer, IMO, that seems to be popular on here, is that Conway isn’t a FB. He’s had some great games there (and at WB) this year. I think because he’s still learning that role and gets caught out with poor protection out there, he gets dismissed too easily as having real potential to become an excellent left back. 

I agree on Conway.  His flaws as a FB are exaggerated, its hard to know who he's being compared with, we're in L1.  In the last 18 months we've had these 9 at LB or LWB:

Williams, Schon, Murphy, Taylor; 3 on their wrong foot: Jones, Cogley, Tutu.  Tomo and GJ out of position.  Conway is our first bone fide LB since Iredale (replaced too soon, with inferior players). 

Its not an easy position to fill and now we've got one we should encourage and develop him, IMO one of the very few players in this squad that will fit in comfortably in the championship.  He can get caught out of position, I'm not saying he's never at fault, but I've seen him make great tackles too and is stronger than he looks, often shepherding the ball out of play with good strength and awareness.

1 hour ago, Rival Son said:

I’m not sure if this a wind-up!

In just six appearances (three of which were as a substitute), he’s already moved to 4th (level with Burstow and Erhahon) in the number of assists by a Bolton player, this season. He’s also scored a goal.

There are already signs that he’s creating a potent partnership with Dalby that I, for one, think is exciting.

You ask him to get the levels of McAtee. With considerably more game time (eighteen appearances), McAtee has delivered just two goals and a paltry single assist. I certainly don’t want Kenny to aspire to McAtee’s woeful returns.

McAtee can join Randall in the departure suite, at the end of this season, while we should try, once again, to sign Kenny.

Its not a wind up.  

Just saying he hasn't scored, that's all.  It wasn't a criticism, just a fact that would need to be put right.  You said he scored, it was an OG at Exeter from what I saw but whatever, I think its fair to say he doesn't look like a natural scorer, so far.  I'm far from saying he won't become one, I hope he does.

Great assists yes, hence me saying it makes sense to see if he can get a settled partnership going.

McAtee has started 6 games, and has got a couple of goals and a great assist, nothing to shout from the rooftops but I meant he has a track record in L1.  Both here and previously where we know he'll deliver goals or assists over a period of time if given games.  We don't know if Kenny will, if you're saying McAtee's career record is paltry, I'm not sure how you would describe Kenny's to date.  But then again most forwards that aren't out and out goalscorers have a "paltry" return too, if that's the benchmark.

I want Kenny to be great and for us to then sign him in the summer.  Would I be asking SS to shell out a million right now based on what we know of him?  I genuinely don't know yet, fair play if you've already seen enough or if you think that's the best value we'll get for (say) £1mil.

I like Conway, but he plays better as part of a back 3 or 5 imo.

Can't play Johnston and Conway next to each other in a 4 they're too dopey. When They get caught all over the gaff on the break they normally get caught at the same time chasing shadows.

1 hour ago, ianofcleveleys said:

SS, before Wigan (a), did a thing a few managers have done down the years, when in the shit try a different set up. Admittedly it wasn't deep shit but we'd had the poor run over Xmas / New Year, a dispiriting loss at Posh and the miserable night v Port Vale. 

Something had to change or a defeat at Wigan would have sent the negativity into overdrive. He went for 3 at the back, with Conway and Tutu higher up. 

We kept two clean sheets v them and Stevenage, got 4 points and looked like a team who only needed 1 to win. Since abandoning it for a return to 4231 we've kept one clean sheet and turned into a team who needs 3 to win every week.

A good number of our players looked a good deal more comfortable in that 343 shape than they do now, Conway and Tutu in particular, arguably also the likes of Johnston.

SS needs to give going back to it some serious consideration if this current run is 'doing his head in' as reported by Iles. 

Not disagreeing with any of that but since those 3 at the back days, SS has signed two wingers.  And one of them (CBT) is a class above, nobody would want him on the bench for long.

Yes he'll probably miss then next 2 games but we'd hope to win them anyway, the tougher last 7 games are when he'll want his best players back.  Add ACD into the mix at some point, and we aren't going to play many games without wingers and personally I wouldn't want us to.  We were quite solid at Wigan and Stevenage but we hardly looked like scoring either.  And Wigan did miss an absolute sitter, they hardly attacked but opened us up when they did, that can be viewed in a positive or negative light.

Bold move by Schumacher playing Sheehan in midfield on his own.. 

Erhahon used as part of a planned overload on the left with Conway and CBT but after the injury to the latter, we didn’t adjust. With the disappointingly anonymous Rodrigues playing high up behind Dalby, it meant Sheehan was responsible for advancing the ball, as well as trying to stop them. Really difficult job and credit to him for playing the full 105 mins. 
 

Very good second half but finishing was woeful again. Blasting shots high and wide or straight at the keeper. Really could have scored 5 or 6 and it’s something the manager must be having sleepless nights about. 

Edited March 15Mar 15 by boltonboris

I really rate Max as a young footballer and he could well have a big future, with us or a club elsewhere who pay us very good money for him. But, when he made himself player of the year for Crewe last year, of his 44 starts, less than a quarter were at LB. The majority were as a LWB and he showed his versatility by playing one or two in CM. 

Clearly he is a better option at LB than those who were playing on the wrong side and, evidently, Taylor. He has improved but still has some positioning issues and isnt the quickest on the turn over 15-20 yards if a ball goes in behind him.

Of those others mentioned, Schon was never considered or played as a LB, neither was Williams. Iredale came as a LWB or occasional LCB, and has played almost exclusively as a LCB at Hibs. Not a bona fide LB and neither is Max. 

Could he be a decent LB in certain circumstances? No doubt, in a 442 or a 433, without the only thing in front of him being someone as piss weak as Gale. He does ok, despite the deficiencies of the system and personnel he's in, but, allowed to be that bit higher up, in a 343 or a 352, we'd really see the best of him, in areas where he can rampage forward and drive into their box, or get crosses in from the areas where GT is proving so effective for Wrexham. 

27 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

I really rate Max as a young footballer and he could well have a big future, with us or a club elsewhere who pay us very good money for him. But, when he made himself player of the year for Crewe last year, of his 44 starts, less than a quarter were at LB. The majority were as a LWB and he showed his versatility by playing one or two in CM. 

Clearly he is a better option at LB than those who were playing on the wrong side and, evidently, Taylor. He has improved but still has some positioning issues and isnt the quickest on the turn over 15-20 yards if a ball goes in behind him.

Of those others mentioned, Schon was never considered or played as a LB, neither was Williams. Iredale came as a LWB or occasional LCB, and has played almost exclusively as a LCB at Hibs. Not a bona fide LB and neither is Max. 

Could he be a decent LB in certain circumstances? No doubt, in a 442 or a 433, without the only thing in front of him being someone as piss weak as Gale. He does ok, despite the deficiencies of the system and personnel he's in, but, allowed to be that bit higher up, in a 343 or a 352, we'd really see the best of him, in areas where he can rampage forward and drive into their box, or get crosses in from the areas where GT is proving so effective for Wrexham. 

Good summary of Max.

The defensive issue Saturday wasn’t Max at LB.

It was the combination of Gale, Conway and Johnston on the left side 

7 minutes ago, desperado said:

 Gale, Conway and Johnston on the left side 

Worst trio since the sugababes.

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

Can't play Johnston and Conway next to each other in a 4 they're too dopey. When They get caught all over the gaff on the break they normally get caught at the same time chasing shadows.

Put 2 holding centre mids to cover the back 4… only away from home though. 

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

Put 2 holding centre mids to cover the back 4… only away from home though. 

The way we set up with Sheehan and  Erhahon, we had this.

And in the first 10-15 we looked very good.

So I don’t think he got his starting side wrong. Maybe Rodrigues was a gamble. 

Then a series of events happened that SS couldn’t have predicted; Erhahon got booked and went into his shell, CBT injured (which upset the balance an d quality on the left) and Tutu had a brain fart in the box.

He reacted well in the second half again with proactive changes he had to make to get us back in the game. 

 

Have said it since August our full backs are not league one level......Conway is decent but he is not a left back

Johnston is a centre back

Go on to the right side we have been woeful for a number of years.

Said it before Christmas and i will say it play-off week.  Get Toal, Firino and Johnston in a back three and do not allow any of them to cross the half way line apart from Firino at corners

30 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Have said it since August our full backs are not league one level.

Schuey doing an incredible job to have us third then.

Fwiw I would like us to look at defensive reinforcements in the summer, especially on the flanks.

Edited March 15Mar 15 by jmjhb

29 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Schuey doing an incredible job to have us third then.

Fwiw I would like us to look at defensive reinforcements in the summer, especially on the flanks.

The whole defence needs an upgrade. I doubt any of them are really Championship level quality. Keeper too.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

The way we set up with Sheehan and  Erhahon, we had this.

And in the first 10-15 we looked very good.

So I don’t think he got his starting side wrong. Maybe Rodrigues was a gamble. 

Then a series of events happened that SS couldn’t have predicted; Erhahon got booked and went into his shell, CBT injured (which upset the balance an d quality on the left) and Tutu had a brain fart in the box.

He reacted well in the second half again with proactive changes he had to make to get us back in the game. 

 

I'd have left Rodrigues till Tuesday, where his skills might come more into play unlocking a defence that will probably sit in.  

9 minutes ago, Kane57 said:

The whole defence needs an upgrade. I doubt any of them are really Championship level quality. Keeper too.

Aye it's the only area that's not been addressed really.

I don't trust any of em bar Forino.

53 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Aye it's the only area that's not been addressed really.

I don't trust any of em bar Forino.

Yep. Only 4 of 5 and the keeper left. Tiz but a scratch. 

1 hour ago, Kane57 said:

The whole defence needs an upgrade. I doubt any of them are really Championship level quality. Keeper too.

We're in L1 though.  Are any of our (permanent) players championship quality?

Rhetorical question, I don't care really, I just hope they are good enough to get past the likes of Stockport in the play offs.

10 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

We're in L1 though.  Are any of our (permanent) players championship quality?

Rhetorical question, I don't care really, I just hope they are good enough to get past the likes of Stockport in the play offs.

Probably not, barring ACD who himself didn't rip up any trees with Blackburn Rovers