Tottenham want him loaned to a Championship club apparently, WAP?

swansea, norwich, stoke, west brom, west ham, wigan, reading, southampton, fulham

 

dont see why we shouldnt be competing with any of these from a financial POV

 

do they all have unlreastic expectations.

 

my only expetaction for the last few years, has been to stay up then improve year on year.

 

i appreciated for every two steps forward you may have to take one step back.

 

but weve been striding backwards since that january in 2009 (or was it 2010?)

swansea, norwich, stoke, west brom, west ham, wigan, reading, southampton, fulham

 

dont see why we shouldnt be competing with any of these from a financial POV

 

do they all have unlreastic expectations.

 

my only expetaction for the last few years, has been to stay up then improve year on year.

 

i appreciated for every two steps forward you may have to take one step back.

 

but weve been striding backwards since that january in 2009 (or was it 2010?)

 

I don't know about the others but Peter Coates at Stoke has poured a large amount of his own money into the club and Whelan has done sonething similar at the Pie eaters.

 

Boltons fans expectations are far too high and as someone said in an earlier post we were spoiled during the Allardyce years. We will now probably be a yo yo club for the forseeable future unless we get a large injection of cash from an individual.

 

The TV money will be silly from next year but also will be the demands of players and agents and until there is some sort of wage cap then we won't be able to compete with the big clubs. When average players, and I'm being kind here, like Nicky Hunt were earing £25 to £30k a week then the club will always struggle to survive.

swansea, norwich, stoke, west brom, west ham, wigan, reading, southampton, fulham

 

dont see why we shouldnt be competing with any of these from a financial POV

 

do they all have unlreastic expectations.

 

my only expetaction for the last few years, has been to stay up then improve year on year.

 

i appreciated for every two steps forward you may have to take one step back.

 

but weve been striding backwards since that january in 2009 (or was it 2010?)

 

We haven't competed financially with Fulham for 15 years since Fayed bought them but Allarydce was so good he was able to overcome that.West Ham have always been wealthier but been hampered with having to play the West Ham way until they got Sam and Stoke have come from nowhere with an owner that has spent over £40 million.Martinez has spent more money at Wigan than Coyle has but we were better than them under Coyle until last season's injury crisis.

 

We have been striding backwards since March 2011 when Coyle remarkably had us in 6th place with an FA Cup semi final to "look forward to" That was when the terrible series of injuries began and the lack of finances kicked in.

 

Bobby Charlton said this week that England can't win the next World Cup because we don't have players who are good enough.Coyle didn't have players available as good as any of the teams that stayed up last season in my opinion.

Edited September 6, 201213 yr by smithills_gent

fulham was a questionable one, yes. but had fayed actually spent any cash in recent years?

 

west ham are stupid with their cash imo.

 

stoke spend money, but its only what they bring in. (apparently)

 

wigan spent money.... when?

No time to look up all Wigan's signings but he has spent more than Coyle.Al Habsi is one.

No time to look up all Wigan's signings but he has spent more than Coyle.Al Habsi is one.

 

That could be because Wigan sign cheap and sell expensive.

 

We sort of do it the other way round the last few years, with a couple of exceptions.

We haven't competed financially with Fulham for 15 years since Fayed bought them but Allarydce was so good he was able to overcome that.West Ham have always been wealthier but been hampered with having to play the West Ham way until they got Sam and Stoke have come from nowhere with an owner that has spent over £40 million.Martinez has spent more money at Wigan than Coyle has but we were better than them under Coyle until last season's injury crisis.

 

We have been striding backwards since March 2011 when Coyle remarkably had us in 6th place with an FA Cup semi final to "look forward to" That was when the terrible series of injuries began and the lack of finances kicked in.

 

Bobby Charlton said this week that England can't win the next World Cup because we don't have players who are good enough.Coyle didn't have players available as good as any of the teams that stayed up last season in my opinion.

 

hasn't our owner spent 100 million?

That could be because Wigan sign cheap and sell expensive.

 

Exactamundo.

 

Palacios + Valencia + Moses = approx £40m?

Coyle is a Bruce Rioch type rather than a Sam Allardyce though.I read on another forum Rioch was a genius and the 4-3 win against Forest in the 2nd Division was given as an example.Rioch and Coyle were similar managers but expectations were lower under Rioch and he had better finishers.Rioch's team that won the play offs were also poor away from home.It was either 4 or 5 wins out of 23 because like Coyle's team now they were set up too attack minded.Allardyce has spoiled us, he was a once in a lifetime great.This team should equal Rioch's mid table finish in his first 2nd Division season and if it's entertaining like Rioch's team was for the most part then we should be content.

 

I don't know the breakdown of home & away wins that season, but Rioch's play-off winning team of 1995 conceded 45 goals in 46 league matches.

Under Coyle, we have conceded 96 goals in the last 47 league matches.

 

As for entertaining, look at matches such as Ipswich away (league Cup) or the Play-Off Final to see how many passes Rioch's team could string together and then look at Coyle's team.

 

Sorry - no comparison.

 

Oh, and according to Gartside, a midtable finish this season will be failure.

I don't know about the others but Peter Coates at Stoke has poured a large amount of his own money into the club and Whelan has done sonething similar at the Pie eaters.

 

Boltons fans expectations are far too high and as someone said in an earlier post we were spoiled during the Allardyce years. We will now probably be a yo yo club for the forseeable future unless we get a large injection of cash from an individual.

 

The TV money will be silly from next year but also will be the demands of players and agents and until there is some sort of wage cap then we won't be able to compete with the big clubs. When average players, and I'm being kind here, like Nicky Hunt were earing £25 to £30k a week then the club will always struggle to survive.

 

That might be true of some fans who only know post-1992 success, especially the Premiership years.

 

My expectations are to see a well-organised team playing decent football and winning a reasonable number of games in the Championship and occasionally in the Premier League, and some decent cup runs. Better than that is a bonus. And as I said elsewhere, for a club our size, having a yo-yo existence between the Championship and the Prem is the only realistic business model currently (in these days of stupid money) - but very difficult to sustain.

epectations..

 

i expect us to lose most of the time against chelsea, united city and other elite clubs

 

i don't expect us to get battered by the major powers that are hull and burnley

 

i'm not having it that coyles budghet is less than theirs and since when we're on the wrong end of it, we can cry about budgets, it surely has to work the other way, too

My expectation is that we get shut of the manager whos taken a club down after 11 years in a division. If we dont go up with a new manager so be it

Coyle is a Bruce Rioch type rather than a Sam Allardyce though.I read on another forum Rioch was a genius and the 4-3 win against Forest in the 2nd Division was given as an example.Rioch and Coyle were similar managers but expectations were lower under Rioch and he had better finishers.Rioch's team that won the play offs were also poor away from home.It was either 4 or 5 wins out of 23 because like Coyle's team now they were set up too attack minded.Allardyce has spoiled us, he was a once in a lifetime great.This team should equal Rioch's mid table finish in his first 2nd Division season and if it's entertaining like Rioch's team was for the most part then we should be content.

 

What a load of fucking shit. We did make some progress under Rioch, whereas we are only going one way with Coyle. Also our team now is about as entertaining as an STD.

I don't know about the others but Peter Coates at Stoke has poured a large amount of his own money into the club and Whelan has done sonething similar at the Pie eaters.

 

Boltons fans expectations are far too high and as someone said in an earlier post we were spoiled during the Allardyce years. We will now probably be a yo yo club for the forseeable future unless we get a large injection of cash from an individual.

 

The TV money will be silly from next year but also will be the demands of players and agents and until there is some sort of wage cap then we won't be able to compete with the big clubs. When average players, and I'm being kind here, like Nicky Hunt were earing £25 to £30k a week then the club will always struggle to survive.

 

Our expectations are not too high at all. The very least we expect is to get the best out of what we have got which clearly isnt happening. The bookies had us down as favourites to win the fucking league at the start of the season as well so they obviously liked the look of our squad too.

 

Every year we dont go up it will make it harder to get back up. The squad quality will only get worse year on year when we stay in this league so this is why we shouldnt let Coyle waste our best chance of getting us back into the premier league.

fulham was a questionable one, yes. but had fayed actually spent any cash in recent years?

 

they have splashed some cash over the years

 

spunked well over £40m the season (the one where they nearly went down) when they bought, amongst others, Kamara for £7M

 

season after hodgson bought johnson for 12M and Zamora for 4M

 

Duff about £4m, Dembele for 5M (but sold him for 16)

 

Ruiz cost them £11m

 

prob spent £10M in the summer and Berbatov's wages will be high

 

though flogging Dempsey and Dembele will have helped

 

so in summary, they spend, are not shy in the transfer market and fair to say, we don't compete on that level with them

Coyle at Burnley was similar to Rioch at Bolton

 

Smallish club into the Premier League via the play offs with a few impressive giant killing acts along the way

 

What is different at Bolton now is unrealistic expectation.We aren't a wealthy club with big spending power like Newcastle or West Ham had in the Championship but the same people who weren't slating Rioch when we lost 3-0 at Charlton or at home to Bristol City demand Coyle's sacking.

 

Coyle started with an incredible amount of goodwill and more than any manager in living memory at this club he has been a decent chance by the fans.

 

This is now his team, we have mills,knight and ream competing for centre half he does not seem to know what is the best combination then stick with it even with the odd mistake. it is inevitable that if you are worried about making mistake in sport you will make one, simple confidence, the defence lack it and the manager has no idea how to instill it, or he has players he manages and either has recruited or has kept who are not good enough.

 

central midfield has been a joke since the holden injury his subsequent desicions not to play muamba and persisit with a 2 in there even when we were getting over run show a lack of vision during the game. He bought in NRC as the type of player we needed but since he has left he has not replaced like for like, so did we not need a NRC type player and he was wrong to bring him in or do we need such a player and he was wrong not to replace him.

 

playing petrov and lee or eagles outside the two in midfiled makes the postion worse, why have 2 ball players alongside one other ball play in Mavis and leave your self with only one player to actually win the ball ? Look at the stats from any game we simply do not have the ball enoguh, you have to earn the right to play.

 

Upfront he has bought in Ngog who never looked a regular threat last season, lightweight and anonymous, not the biggest transfer fee ever but a player OC bought in, klasnic scored goals and got dropped, skd did not score goals and got dropped, so we sign sordell and did not play him...no one will ever explain to me how a club with little money scrapping for survival spent what little money there was on a player who never played at a time when we needed goals

 

tactically were are terrible , never ever look like holding onto a lead, the later the better at times, not conceding against west brom would have meant staying up. is that fitness , organisation, tactics ?? whatever it lies at the managers door.

 

in this thread you have defended OC because sordell misiing a chance cost 2 points, the lad is not a natural goal scorer you claim, but the problem is that OC went out and signed him for what ever reason, was that why he got left on the bench ?

 

i have presented a series of facts and observations which highlight why OC is a poor manager, it might be he has been unlucky and with different circumstances could be a succes, but at the moment he shows no signs that he has an idea how to turn it round.

 

I am desperate for him to do well, but would love to know why you or anyone thinks this is likely to happen

Edited September 6, 201213 yr by Ani

Coyle is a Bruce Rioch type rather than a Sam Allardyce though.

 

not having that

 

Todd was probably the "Coyle" element in terms of how the players play

 

Rioch would've been the one who set them out, drilled them, organised them, told them what tactics they were to play etc

 

which makes him nowt like Coyle as he clearly doesn't do any of those things

 

in my head at least

 

anyway

 

Jenas - it's a no from me

His players would have crawled over broken glass for Rioch, Coyle's lot won't even put a foot in. They have stopped playing for him.

Rioch would've been the one who set them out, drilled them, organised them, told them what tactics they were to play etc

 

which makes him nowt like Coyle as he clearly doesn't do any of those things

 

in my head at least

 

 

Not just your head. That's pretty much a fact.

rioch was far more megson than coyle from what i remember

It's not the fact the we got relegated that has led to the lack of confidence in Coyle. I think we all expected it would happen at some time. It's HOW it happened. We should have stayed up (even with the injuries), but baffling selections, poor tactics and a muddled transfer policy cost us. All this has continued over the summer and so far this season.

His players would have crawled over broken glass for Rioch, Coyle's lot won't even put a foot in. They have stopped playing for him.

This is how it seems to me and the only logical reason I can explain this down spiral. I can't imagine his teamtalk on sat was go and switch off and give hull the game in the first ten mins of the second half? Like they did.

don't kid yourself we were any better in the first half

I'm baffled by the continued belief of some that Coyle can, and will, turn it round. All this harking back to past managers is also an exercise in futility.

How many fucking conceded in 47