Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 If I'm honest pal I'm on a Bolton forum and a new member and a evertonian, so I did not want to start taking one person to task. It's just that what I'm trying to understand people are still saying scousers are at in some part to blame. I'm asking how in people's opinion do people think LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough? The only respons seems to be drink. This can't be proved and is not fact. What is fact is what came to light yesterday. People go on about heysel but that is a different matter. We are debating Hillsbrough and what happened there. As for heysel as a evertonian I feel agrived more than the average football fan over that, as in my opinion we had just won the cup winners cup and I believe had the team to challenge for the european cup but we never got the chance, we suffered massively because of heysel and the ban, So this is not me saying LFC fans are always innocent. They are not. However where Hillsbrough is concerned they where made to be scapegoats and the mud threw at them has stuck. They where innocent and in no way shape of form did LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough. So Liverpool fans 100% innocent? Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 So Liverpool fans 100% innocent? Yes until there are facts to prove otherwise where Hillsbrough is concerned. But you won't find any cause there are none, in what way do you think Liverpool fans are to blame? Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Yes until there are facts to prove otherwise where Hillsbrough is concerned. But you won't find any cause there are none, in what way do you think Liverpool fans are to blame? Were you there? Quote
jazza Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 So mate from reading this thread, people are suggesting lfc fans where drinking which caused Hillsbrough. That's what I can ascertain. If I'm wrong and people are not suggesting drink was the cause of lfc's blame. How are the the Liverpool fans partly responsible What difference does it make if you were sober or drunk, surely it's if you have got a ticket or not! Ok..I'll spend 10 minutes of my life explaining what I meant. There are countless reasons for the disaster in my opinion.... It is like a domino effect.without one reason the rest wouldn't have happened If you watch the video I posted above you'll hear scousers and publicans alike admitting that there was a lot of drink consumed prior to the match... and I'd be disappointed if there wasn't before an FA cup semi final. There were thousands of drunk/semi drunk fans turning up with minutes to spare on an antiquated entrance to an outdated stadium.. The crush outside was going to kill people so the police, despite the warnings of stewards (again watch video above) decided to relieve the pressure by opening the gate which was a fatal mistake... it was a funnel and the overcrowding was concentrated into one small area at the exit of the tunnel. Right.. my point is, sober reasonable people wouldn't have stampeded in through the open gate... be they ticket holders or not. They were in a mob culture and I've been there myself.. it's not a criticism. The design of the terracing with the hooligan proof fences made escape for the poor vicrtims impossible and poor.. poor policeing was definately to blame for the number killed... they need to be held accountable. My view (just an opinion of a fellow football fan) is that the whole situation was a fuck up from start to finish.... but the first factor was the drunk fans trying to get into the ground. Not blaming them in particular, I would have done the same. While there is blame with others the fans have to take their share of the responsibility Quote
Big_Sharps Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Don't you have to be from Merseyside and the blue side to be considered an actual Evertonian? Quote
Spider Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Yes until there are facts to prove otherwise where Hillsbrough is concerned. But you won't find any cause there are none, in what way do you think Liverpool fans are to blame? You're not getting it are you? There are none so blind as those who will not see. Jibbing into grounds was commonplace back then, but even the thickest cunt on merseyside would know this causes overcrowding. The police probably didn't want twatting for leaving them outside, but I'll grant you they should have stood their ground and took a beating. I'd carry on, but I'm wasting my time. I will add, as is necessary, that the cover up is shameful. But compensation won't bring any of those poor souls back. Quote
dave2980 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Yes until there are facts to prove otherwise where Hillsbrough is concerned. But you won't find any cause there are none, in what way do you think Liverpool fans are to blame? There were roughly 10,000 people into that end of the football ground. Knowing the behaviour of football fans in that era, how anybody can categorically deny that even 0.5% of those people (50 people) made no contribution towards what was a tragic accident is beyond me. That is what is getting mine (and probably others) backs up about the whole thing. Yes the authorities were at fault, but all Liverpool fans innocent? Not a chance Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Ok..I'll spend 10 minutes of my life explaining what I meant. There are countless reasons for the disaster in my opinion.... It is like a domino effect.without one reason the rest wouldn't have happened If you watch the video I posted above you'll hear scousers and publicans alike admitting that there was a lot of drink consumed prior to the match... and I'd be disappointed if there wasn't before an FA cup semi final. There were thousands of drunk/semi drunk fans turning up with minutes to spare on an antiquated entrance to an outdated stadium.. The crush outside was going to kill people so the police, despite the warnings of stewards (again watch video above) decided to relieve the pressure by opening the gate which was a fatal mistake... it was a funnel and the overcrowding was concentrated into one small area at the exit of the tunnel. Right.. my point is, sober reasonable people wouldn't have stampeded in through the open gate... be they ticket holders or not. They were in a mob culture and I've been there myself.. it's not a criticism. The design of the terracing with the hooligan proof fences made escape for the poor vicrtims impossible and poor.. poor policeing was definately to blame for the number killed... they need to be held accountable. My view (just an opinion of a fellow football fan) is that the whole situation was a fuck up from start to finish.... but the first factor was the drunk fans trying to get into the ground. Not blaming them in particular, I would have done the same. While there is blame with others the fans have to take their share of the responsibility To be fare there mate you make some great points, and you are right about lots of contributing factors however I don't think drink was one of them in my opinion. Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 To be fare there mate you make some great points, and you are right about lots of contributing factors however I don't think drink was one of them in my opinion. You don't answer questions you don't want to, do you? Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Don't you have to be from Merseyside and the blue side to be considered an actual Evertonian? No why would you? Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 You don't answer questions you don't want to, do you? What question would you like me to answer? Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 What question would you like me to answer? the ones you haven't Quote
jazza Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 as a matter of interest Miller.. what agegroup are you in??..As Spider said above, if you didn't attend football matches in the 70's/80's you might not realise what it was like.. A very very different experience from the sanitised overpoliced way it is now Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 as a matter of interest Miller.. what agegroup are you in??..As Spider said above, if you didn't attend football matches in the 70's/80's you might not realise what it was like.. A very very different experience from the sanitised overpoliced way it is now 30's mate so no did not attend football matches in the 70's and 80's, so no to be fair I would have no idea what is what like. Quote
jazza Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 ok mate. Not a criticism but the fans were no angels.. believe me Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 ok mate. Not a criticism but the fans were no angels.. believe me And believe Traf! Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 the ones you haven't Blimey fella did no know I was not answering any, been replying to posts, sorry if I don't keep going back checking if I have missed my q and a. No I was not there. But I know all the lies and rubbish printed and said since. Now I know 2 lads who where there that day. Now they obviously say Liverpool fans where not to blame, and I accept of course they would say that, however everything coming out seems to suggest they are right. In my opinion there is a anti scouse theme throughout this country and this in my opinion is why people want to blame them. Quote
Carlos Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 You can't reason with a Scouser. Especially an angry one (aren't they all?). And who wants to? Discussions had on here are for the users of this site, there's no point coming on just to disagree, with no context of who you are. The discussion was amongst people who know of one another, no one was taunting Scousers. Over and out. Quote
gonzo Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 I blame Maggie Thatcher. She ordered the cover up to stick the final nail in the coffin after already wrecking the city's economy. Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 I blame Maggie Thatcher. She ordered the cover up to stick the final nail in the coffin after already wrecking the city's economy. understandable revenge action Quote
miamiwhite Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) in the 80's,our game away at scarborough saw serious overcrowding in our end. i was in a mob of 60 lads who jibbed in,no doubt many others did,as the official number of BWFC that day were 600,anyone who was there knows there was a damn site more than that. again at blackpool on the boxing day,how many got in for nothing,when the gates to the kop end were kicked in ?i had no ticket,and was outside with a good thousand or two,who were all ticketless and soon took advantage of the 'free gate'. against wrexham in '88 on our promotion from the 4th division. i like many others were ushered in the side terrace to relieve pressure on the terraces behind the nets. like a few have said,similar incidents could have happened at many grounds,ours definitely included. on a side note,watching highlights of games in south america,esp argentina, makes me wonder when we're going to see a disaster over there. that is just a matter of time Edited September 13, 2012 by miamiwhite Quote
Miller Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 You can't reason with a Scouser. Especially an angry one (aren't they all?). And who wants to? Discussions had on here are for the users of this site, there's no point coming on just to disagree, with no context of who you are. The discussion was amongst people who know of one another, no one was taunting Scousers. Over and out. 1) not a scouser 2) not angry 3) I am a user of this site I'm just like all the people on here with a opinion however, because I'm a evertonian and new and its not the same as a lot of people on here I'll get grief I understand that Quote
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 1) not a scouser 2) not angry 3) I am a user of this site I'm just like all the people on here with a opinion however, because I'm a evertonian and new and its not the same as a lot of people on here I'll get grief I understand that Being born in Bolton makes you a Boltonian, I think you'll find Quote
no balls Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) He's a Daisy Hillbilly! Are they different to Cowhead types? Further up or down the food chain? Edited September 13, 2012 by no balls Quote
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