Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 Why would anyone blame Trump for this? Pretty sure this was done by an Iranian missile. What's odd, is that some on here want Trump to get the blame, but I can speak for most level headed types and say that won't happen, because it's not his fault, you see. Everyone seems to be in reverse. What should Trump's response be, if anything - or Trudeau for that matter, he's lost a lot of citizens here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted January 10, 2020 Members Share Posted January 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Spider said: Why would anyone blame Trump for this? Because some are so blinded by visceral hatred that they will find a link somehow to lay everything bad at his door. Thank fuck we visonaries are members of the historicals rather than the hystericals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Thank fuck we visonaries are members of the historicals rather than the hystericals. Do you have to have a couple of ribs removed to perform such remarkable acts of self fellatio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Because some are so blinded by visceral hatred that they will find a link somehow to lay everything bad at his door. Thank fuck we visonaries are members of the historicals rather than the hystericals. It’s possible to believe that Trump didn’t shoot down a passenger plane whilst simultaneously believing that he’s clueless about the Middle East. Doublethink isn’t for everyone of course, but some of us are capable of independent thought based on the facts available to us at any given time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) With it being Ukrainian plane what’s the chances of putin having something to do with this. Tin foil hat territory but worlds gone mad. Edited January 10, 2020 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, royal white said: Trump was hammered by certain folk last week for killing a ‘bad guy’ Its now looking increasingly likely that Iran have taken out a civilian airline killing all onboard yet the silence is deafening. Very odd 🙄 You seem to have this a bit backwards. Nobody minds bad and disruptive guys being taken out - the worry was the way this was done and the subsequent rhetoric and what it would stir up. Since then Iran has launched missiles at US military sites and possibly taken down a plane. So killing him hasn't improved the situation. And now things are worse. This is ok if Trump has a grand plan to sort the situation out very rapidly in the coming few days. But if not we're seeing the escalating tensions and loss of life everyone feared. And the plane being shot down isn't Trump's fault. Nobody is backing Iran. I think all we want is calm and measured actions not shooting from the hip and then worrying about the consequences later. This all feels very uncalculated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 In case there was any doubt it was shot down... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51055219 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: With it being Ukrainian plane what’s the chances of putin having something to do with this. Tin foil hat territory but worlds gone mad. Doubt it, to be honest. Though wouldn't be all that surprised as he has form, as Malaysian Airlines will testify. His eyes are on Europe, the middle east is a wasps nest he knows he can poke anytime he wants. Iran need to explain themselves very quickly or bizarrely this could get messy without any influence from the Don. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, bolty58 said: Because some are so blinded by visceral hatred that they will find a link somehow to lay everything bad at his door. Thank fuck we visonaries are members of the historicals rather than the hystericals. Quite remarkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It certainly appears Iran have shot it down and are therefore to blame. They shot it down during a period of heightened tension in the region and just a few days after tit for tat bombings. Trump/the US arent without culpability in all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 I wonder how many of those on board were actually fleeing the area before the Iran/USA issues escalated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, Duck Egg said: It certainly appears Iran have shot it down and are therefore to blame. They shot it down during a period of heightened tension in the region and just a few days after tit for tat bombings. Trump/the US arent without culpability in all this. And there is my point proven. whether there is a war or not. Iran are 100% to blame this is their reaction And it falls on them trump isn’t culpable and it’s astonishing that you say so is trump/US culpable in some way for the Missile attacks on their base? Absolutely it’s targeted retaliation and expected Is trump or anyone but the Iranians who shot down a civilian passenger plane culpable? Absolutely not you want to try and explain your viewpoint to the families of all those killed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Escobarp said: And there is my point proven. whether there is a war or not. Iran are 100% to blame this is their reaction And it falls on them trump isn’t culpable and it’s astonishing that you say so is trump/US culpable in some way for the Missile attacks on their base? Absolutely it’s targeted retaliation and expected Is trump or anyone but the Iranians who shot down a civilian passenger plane culpable? Absolutely not you want to try and explain your viewpoint to the families of all those killed? When people said there was a risk the USA's action would escalate tensions this sort of thing is what they feared. Loss of life of innocent people because the tension is only heightened. It's Iran's fault - but actions have consequences. And it would be nice if those consequences were considered a bit more rather than just social media angry bluster from a man who could lead us down a road for more loss of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: When people said there was a risk the USA's action would escalate tensions this sort of thing is what they feared. Loss of life of innocent people because the tension is only heightened. It's Iran's fault - but actions have consequences. And it would be nice if those consequences were considered a bit more rather than just social media angry bluster from a man who could lead us down a road for more loss of life. So his twitter usage contributed In some way to the plane being shot down correct? Is that what you are saying? Just so I’m clear and have the gas oven on full ready waiting for you answer to plunge my head in Edited January 10, 2020 by Escobarp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 Would this plane have been shot down if Trump hadn't killed the Quds guy? Probably not. Is this Trump's fault? No Is the middle east an entire bag of shit? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, MickyD said: I wonder how many of those on board were actually fleeing the area before the Iran/USA issues escalated. Lots were students returning to Canada after vacation with family, using split tickets Tehran to Kyiv, Kyiv to Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Spider said: Would this plane have been shot down if Trump hadn't killed the Quds guy? Probably not. Is this Trump's fault? No Is the middle east an entire bag of shit? yes Would the plane have been shot down if the pilot didn’t take it down the runaway and take off? No. Is he culpable ? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, Escobarp said: Would the plane have been shot down if the pilot didn’t take it down the runaway and take off? No. Is he culpable ? No exactly you cannot try and consider what is an infinite number of outcomes for every decision you make. It's about calculation If I go out in my car 3 minutes later because I forgot my bag, and die in a motorway crash, whose fault is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Spider said: exactly you cannot try and consider what is an infinite number of outcomes for every decision you make. It's about calculation If I go out in my car 3 minutes later because I forgot my bag, and die in a motorway crash, whose fault is that? Agreed. Some things you can account for and you undertake the action knowing some of the clear consequences. some are completely and utterly unseen such as this plane being shot down and even then the links are being manufactured to point the finger as trump because people don’t like him or his beliefs/statements I’m not defending his every move by the way but there is nothing here that tells me his is culpable for this attack in anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Agreed. Some things you can account for and you undertake the action knowing some of the clear consequences. some are completely and utterly unseen such as this plane being shot down and even then the links are being manufactured to point the finger as trump because people don’t like him or his beliefs/statements I’m not defending his every move by the way but there is nothing here that tells me his is culpable for this attack in anyway He isn't. Thick, gormless idiot he may be, but this is like blaming him for a VAR goal being disallowed because it uses technology developed in the USA. The haters will have to just concentrate on that wall in Colorado for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, Escobarp said: So his twitter usage contributed In some way to the plane being shot down correct? Is that what you are saying? Just so I’m clear and have the gas oven on full ready waiting for you answer to plunge my head in No. My point was that any actions like this have consequences. And we'd all be a lot happier with a calm, focussed and considered response that we could then say reflected the gravity of decisions. In essence the USA are as unpredictable right now as Iran. Its not conducive for calming things down. If you're leader of the USA and you commit to kill a "bad guy" in an unstable region, you have to own the aftermath and consequences. And doing so in a calm and considered and thoughtful way is important. Killing bad people may be a good thing in some people's views - like the war in Iraq - but the consequences are not simple, not easy to predict and very very hard to manage. And this is why Boris' response was spot on - yes nobody will mourn his death but the aftermath is worrying and everyone on both sides needs to calm down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 32 minutes ago, MalcolmW said: Lots were students returning to Canada after vacation with family, using split tickets Tehran to Kyiv, Kyiv to Toronto. Has there been a change is spelling or was Kiev always wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjhb Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Has there been a change is spelling or was Kiev always wrong? It's the transliteration of the Ukrainian name for the city as opposed to the Russian name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Has there been a change is spelling or was Kiev always wrong? I believe Kiev is the Russian version of the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 10, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2020 Thanks chaps. More correctly politically I suppose, and right too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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