Not sure if this has been brought up but I can't find it if it has...

 

Where do we all stand on this??

 

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, when I went to school (1995-2000) we were split into different sets for subjects based on ability. I.e maths set 1-7 (1 being the best and 7 the worst) so that you didn't have someone really good being held back by being in the same class as someone poor at it (and visa versa)

 

Surely grammar schools are just the same but grouping by district as appose to just within a school?

 

Also, as it stands to get into the best high school in Chorley (St Micheals) you have to go to church every week ffs. Same with the best primary schools. It doesn't matter if your Catholic, Jewish, Muslim etc etc as long as you attend every week and get your stamps

 

They are only doing this as they know a parent willing to go to church every week will also put a shift in teaching at home

 

I'd rather have an 11+ system / Grammar schools than the current system of faith taking precedence

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by birch-chorley

I think the PM should be cracking on with planning for Brexit instead of trying to appease the right wing Tory traditionalists again.

 

After all, pandering to this group has created the Brexit planning work in the first place.

Because she's a one man band and can only do 1 thing at once ????

I'm all for them. If people want to develop and improve at a faster pace then good luck to them.

Because she's a one man band and can only do 1 thing at once

 

If she was a one 'man' band that could possibly be the case, you know multitasking and all that.....

 

I'm no expert but the last few years have seen loads of tinkering with education, why not put this on ice and review when those reforms have bedded in?

 

Feels to me like politcs over pragmatism getting onto a favourite hobby horse early doors.

Edited September 10, 20169 yr by RoadRunnerFan

Who (on here) has said they're 'for the rich' (Grammar Schools)?

 

Not rich maybe but certainly better off.

 

If we use kids on free school dinners as an indicator of wealth or lack of it, 3% of those at current grammar schools are on free dinners as opposed to 14% at non selective schools.

No link has ever been proven between genes and intelligence. As smiffs said nurture, effort, etc all develop children, so are you lucky enough to be born into a good family/area etc?

 

Major problem with comprehensives is they can't attract enough good graduate teachers. At a comp chances are your kid could be taught maths by someone who's highest qualification is a B at GCSE, that is going to cap learning. And that's it they are lucky enough to be taught by a maths specialist at all for the first 2/3 years.

 

If your highest qualification is a GCSE, you're not allowed to teach that at GCSE, 

 

I teach Business Economics, Law, Travel, ICT and Personal Finance, all of which were studies as part of my degree. (Thankfully we dropped Travel and Law is off the cards this year). 

 

They have had me in Biology last year assisting, no more.. as the knowledge simply isn't there. This is a normal comprehensive.

 

What they do, is if they are short they may send somebody on a SKE, which is like an access course, which focuses mainly on the maths content, however you need to be really top notch at maths to do this, your talking a grade C at least at A Level..

The noisy left on social media..

 

Its now wrong for people to want the best for their kids.. I went to a private (public) school and remember my parents working two jobs to manage that.

 

The current system has setted maths English and science, and pe anyway ( kids pick options). Isnt top set the same as taking the kids away.... the schools will be massivly affected by how their league tables look after though..

 

Some would argue you shouldn't even be setting kids.

 

As a teacher, I assume you are aware of what is going on in Finland.

 

In a nutshell, they are pissing all over what you and your colleagues are achieving.

 

That's the way we should be moving.

 

High quality education for all. Not just for those who can afford it, not just for those who do well on one morning of one day.

The education systems that work and the ones we are supposed to be looking to emulate  (Shangai, Finland) don't have any of this bollox.

 

We should be looking to raise standards for all kids rather than writing some poor kid off at the age of 10 because they had a bad couple of hours on one particular day.

 

Could not agree more. In 1970 I was one of 6 pupil specially marked out for intense 11 plus training by my junior school and basically had a bad un on the day. Spent the next 5 years at a secondary school trying to fit in with the 80% who didn't give a fuck about learning whilst trying to get some O levels. Took me 5 years of hard study afterwards at polytechnic to make up for it. Thats why I sent my daughter to a private school.

 

We need to look further afield to countries whose models cater for all. Religion mumbo jumbo should have no place in education in the 21st century.

Not rich maybe but certainly better off.

 

If we use kids on free school dinners as an indicator of wealth or lack of it, 3% of those at current grammar schools are on free dinners as opposed to 14% at non selective schools.

 

I work in an area which has the grammar school setup. On the floor below our place is one of those after school tuition places, directly across the road is another. They are both doing decent business as far as I can see.

 

I was considered bright at primary and came from Halliwell. I used to think that grammar schools would be great for folk like me. 

 

In reality it will be the 'Tarks' of this world that Smiffs refers to who get in. Mummy and Daddy paying for them to be taught to test ahead of brighter less well off kids.

Edited September 10, 20169 yr by RoadRunnerFan

I work in an area which has the grammar school setup. On the floor below our place is one of those after school tuition places, directly across the road is another. They are both doing decent business as far as I can see.

 

I was considered bright at primary and came from Halliwell. I used to think that grammar schools would be great for folk like me. 

 

In reality it will be the 'Tarks' of this world that Smiffs refers to who get in. Mummy and Daddy paying for them to be taught to test ahead of brighter less well off kids.

 

I live in an area where they have grammars.

 

The reality is that kids are tutored to fuck at great expense. 

As opposed to Tarks moving to the catchment area? What's the difference? Round here you've got people living round the corner from Withins finding ways to get their kids into Turton.

I live in an area where they have grammars.

 

The reality is that kids are tutored to fuck at great expense. 

 

Exactly my point Mick.

There's evidence poor brown kids from abroad who have moved to London try harder and get better results than poor white London kids. So is it the actual schooling or the parents giving their offspring a belief they can achieve?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-children-in-poorer-families-do-worse-at-school-report-shows-a3341231.html

As opposed to Tarks moving to the catchment area? What's the difference? Round here you've got people living round the corner from Withins finding ways to get their kids into Turton.

 

No difference. The whole system is favours those with a bit of money. Introducing grammars won't change this.

 

Seriously, have a read up on what Finland do. Its a proper eye opener.

As opposed to Tarks moving to the catchment area? What's the difference? Round here you've got people living round the corner from Withins finding ways to get their kids into Turton.

 

I's a fair point Carlos about catchment areas which is illustrated by house prices.

 

But you show it's limitations of the catchment area is king view with your example. The folk you talk about from, I'm guessing Harwood, don't need to move to Bromley Cross to get in Turton. Every day I see busses going to Canon Slade on their way up St Peters way from Swinton & Worsley.

We don't need to ape fucking Finland, kids in Finland are entirely different to our own. We've got some of the best schools Worldwide here in the UK, we need to translate this model to other schools here.

 

I know kids with good GCSE results who can't write a letter, have no general knowledge etc. they've basically been coached to pass exams and nowt more...I know folk in the Higher Learning sphere who despair at the kids coming through to study at degree level, who basically have to be taught from scratch in certain disciplines.

 

If I had children, as long as they had a good understanding and direction, I couldn't give two shits about their GCSE results as I find them so valueless.

Edited September 10, 20169 yr by Youri McAnespie

The downside to the Finnish system is that they pay for it by taxing the fuck out of folk.

Because she's a one man band and can only do 1 thing at once ????

She probably spends four hours a day 'getting ready', so yes.

See, I'd have passed an 11+ with no extra tuition but was first year of Comps. Free to chose whichever school I fancied, I went to a shit one. Grammars favour people like me too, no inverse snobbery here.

There's evidence poor brown kids from abroad who have moved to London try harder and get better results than poor white London kids. So is it the actual schooling or the parents giving their offspring a belief they can achieve?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-children-in-poorer-families-do-worse-at-school-report-shows-a3341231.html

 

I think its got more to do with throwing boat loads of cash at London, as usual.

 

http://www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/how-much-per-pupil-funding-will-your-school-get

The downside to the Finnish system is that they pay for it by taxing the fuck out of folk.

Another fly in the ointment is there isn't vast swathes of Finnish kids with feral c*nts for parents.

 

If I had childre, as long as they had a good understanding and direction, I couldn't give two shits about their GCSE results as I find them so valueless.

One you're in college your gcse results mean jack shit.

And with college level education being compulsory for kids now. They mean even less.

Rather than trying to jack up the schools exam scores, more still needs to be done to get the non academic into vocational stuff.

Exam scores are no sign of intelligence I've worked with massively qualified Engineers who are no where near as intelligent as a Road worker with an nvq

Not rich maybe but certainly better off.

 

If we use kids on free school dinners as an indicator of wealth or lack of it, 3% of those at current grammar schools are on free dinners as opposed to 14% at non selective schools.

For me it's because you have a direct correlation between parents who do well for themselves passing on knowledge to their children

 

Unfortunately the poorer the parents the less likely they are going to be cleverer / wiser and then hand this on to their children

See, I'd have passed an 11+ with no extra tuition but was first year of Comps. Free to chose whichever school I fancied, I went to a shit one. Grammars favour people like me too, no inverse snobbery here.

 

That's what I used to think, but I reckon this after school tuition skews the game these days.

 

I'm a bit younger than you but two lads in my Primary passed for Bolton school, one went one didn't. I was considered ahead of both academically at the time.

 

Being a left footer the game was a bit different for me, went to primary and secondary with a broader socio-economic mix.

 

If I'd have been CofE I'd have probably ended up going to shit schools. 

Another fly in the ointment is there isn't vast swathes of Finnish kids with feral c*nts for parents.

 

Chicken and egg isn't it?

 

Well educated folk aren't generally feral cunts.

Chicken and egg isn't it?

 

Well educated folk aren't generally feral cunts.

Nip in M&S this aft, it's full of them.

 

I'm just wary of this 'look what they're doing in X' approach.

 

It was Alberta (Canadian Province) and Singapore a few years back...

 

It's a Dougie Freedman/Neil Lennon approach imo, we have the perfect model here in the UK, in the private school system - in the case of the feral parents scenario, remove the kids, make them boarders, that's blue sky thinking that.