Politics

[fatolive]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

Pretty much NI for the last 60 years 

Burning houses of the a demographic they don’t want in an area has been going on a lot longer than that. 
common practice for certain mobs well before what’s now known as “the Troubles “ 

 

 

 

[gonzo]

28 minutes ago, Cheese said:

But that's basically what you're saying. We should listen to these thickos because they've got mad about something and attacked innocent people based on blatant lies. You're justifying their actions by saying they're just misguided, whilst agreeing with the cunts who misguided them.

That's quite the leap and absolutely fuck all like what I am saying.

It's only in your warped, confrontational, single minded, tunnel vision, argumentative and completely polarised mind that you could possibly take that away from my comments.

I swear you can't actually read anything without some kind mist forming infront of your eyes that creates a completely different narrative.

Not once did I or have I justified the rioters actions, either last summer here or in Ireland there.

I am saying event like this happen as a result of underlying tensions and feelings in certain populations.

Remember when all the blacks kicked off because Mark Duggan was shot?

Nobody gave a fuck about him, but it a lit embers that were bubbling within the black community before it. It was then obviously hijacked by looters and dicks just wanting a row.

It doesn't however change the fact that people were angry and unsettled about the treatment by police. That incident just sparked it off.

Same as George Floyd, same the Southport riots, Same as Rodney king and the Tottenham Riots.

These evens happen when there is already division, normally based around diversity and it takes one incident, as unfounded as that incident may be, to kick things off.

You just think it's a bunch or thickos our for a kick off and chose to ignore the social problems that proceed it and are the back drop to the problem.

If those social issues aren't dealt with, that's when divisions get wider, that's when your extremes come in and it gets wider and wider. Then one incident happens and it's kick off time.

It's like one cycle.

Sort the social issues and you might have a chance of stopping what follows.

Allow those issues to breed and you end up with a polarised angry society.

 

[London Wanderer]

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

Indeed. It's the same as last year.

But this kind of outpouring of rage and the mindless violence that ensues will always happen if those fundamental issues aren't addressed.

Don't feed the beast.

What is the issue that isn’t being addressed? Two Romanian lads have been accused of a serious sexual assault. Now before anything has even been to court, we’re seeing anyone in the community who looks remotely eastern European attacked. You can add other immigrants to that list as well. Some are even 2nd/3rd generation. 

That kind of mindless thuggery doesn’t deserve a discussion around the fundamental issues.

Imagine having your family attacked anytime a white British person committed a crime in the community?

When other extremists commit atrocities we don’t open up the floor to discussion around their barbaric beliefs. That only fuels the fire.

 I’m all for honest discussions about the concerns around immigration & crime. But in cases like this it’s important not to deflect, or else you’re condoning the rioters & giving them reason to carry on. 

[Farrelli]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

It was a torch paper, a misguided one at that, but all the same it's on the back of massive issues over there.

It's not just about the one case is it.

You're brighter than that.

There is no excuse for it and it sounds like you are trying to make some.  Is that what we have come to, torching a leisure centre and smashing innocent people’s homes.  Did they riot when one of their own committed an assault? It’s like that guy in Liverpool who injured people in his car. If that had been a non-British person it would have been carnage for any minorities in the community. It’s just thuggish, racist thickos being played by Farage and the like.

[London Wanderer]

I think to be fair @gonzo isn’t making excuses. Just comes across in that way with phrases like ‘don’t feed the beast’. As what happened in NI isn’t the fault of politicians. 

[Winchester White]

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

There is no excuse for it and it sounds like you are trying to make some.  Is that what we have come to, torching a leisure centre and smashing innocent people’s homes.  Did they riot when one of their own committed an assault? It’s like that guy in Liverpool who injured people in his car. If that had been a non-British person it would have been carnage for any minorities in the community. It’s just thuggish, racist thickos being played by Farage and the like.

To be fair, I think Gonzo is trying to explain, not excuse, some of the behaviour seen.

The problem then is the likes of Farage will exploit it, as he did after Southport and make things worse.

 

[Farrelli]

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

 

The problem then is the likes of Farage will exploit it, as he did after Southport and make things worse.

 

Absolutely and it needs acknowledging. There are any number of these hate stirrers waiting to stoke up the division. Of course There are social problems and religious issues in the UK. I’m not denying that but what Tommy Robinson, Laurence Fox and Farage do is go straight in antagonising the situation and it needs to be called out.

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, gonzo said:

That's quite the leap and absolutely fuck all like what I am saying.

It's only in your warped, confrontational, single minded, tunnel vision, argumentative and completely polarised mind that you could possibly take that away from my comments.

I swear you can't actually read anything without some kind mist forming infront of your eyes that creates a completely different narrative.

Not once did I or have I justified the rioters actions, either last summer here or in Ireland there.

I am saying event like this happen as a result of underlying tensions and feelings in certain populations.

Remember when all the blacks kicked off because Mark Duggan was shot?

Nobody gave a fuck about him, but it a lit embers that were bubbling within the black community before it. It was then obviously hijacked by looters and dicks just wanting a row.

It doesn't however change the fact that people were angry and unsettled about the treatment by police. That incident just sparked it off.

Same as George Floyd, same the Southport riots, Same as Rodney king and the Tottenham Riots.

These evens happen when there is already division, normally based around diversity and it takes one incident, as unfounded as that incident may be, to kick things off.

You just think it's a bunch or thickos our for a kick off and chose to ignore the social problems that proceed it and are the back drop to the problem.

If those social issues aren't dealt with, that's when divisions get wider, that's when your extremes come in and it gets wider and wider. Then one incident happens and it's kick off time.

It's like one cycle.

Sort the social issues and you might have a chance of stopping what follows.

Allow those issues to breed and you end up with a polarised angry society.

Great rant. Except the "social issues" will never be sorted to the extent that the thicko racists want.

[Ani]

12 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

What is the issue that isn’t being addressed? Two Romanian lads have been accused of a serious sexual assault. Now before anything has even been to court, we’re seeing anyone in the community who looks remotely eastern European attacked. You can add other immigrants to that list as well. Some are even 2nd/3rd generation. 

That kind of mindless thuggery doesn’t deserve a discussion around the fundamental issues.

Imagine having your family attacked anytime a white British person committed a crime in the community?

When other extremists commit atrocities we don’t open up the floor to discussion around their barbaric beliefs. That only fuels the fire.

 I’m all for honest discussions about the concerns around immigration & crime. But in cases like this it’s important not to deflect, or else you’re condoning the rioters & giving them reason to carry on. 

Without knowing the specific details in Ireland hard to say but the narrative is pretty clear there is a feeling that immigration is running out of control and people are coming to this country and playing the game which is costing £bns. Alongside this we are seeing a Labour Govt cutting Pensioners money and introducing a welfare bill that if implanted as badly as the winter fuel debacle will seem some people will real needs fucked over.

The immigrants are not evenly spread across the country so unless you live in an area where they are housed pretty impossible to understand the anger and frustration. But you try and do that as Gonzo suggests and it equates to condoning the behaviour ? Does it fuck. 
 

The mindless thuggery is inexcusable as it was after Southport but if you can point to any example in any sphere where focussing on symptoms rather than causes has solved anything you may have a valid point. The rhetoric of the extremists only works when it also taps into concerns of the wider population. Is there anyone in the country that things having a nearly 2 year backlog in processing claims for refugees is not an issue to address ? That the £bns being spent housing them is not an issue ? 
 

We either have a difficult conversation and drive actions to tackle the beast or we just hope it goes quietly to sleep. 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Absolutely and it needs acknowledging. There are any number of these hate stirrers waiting to stoke up the division. Of course There are social problems and religious issues in the UK. I’m not denying that but what Tommy Robinson, Laurence Fox and Farage do is go straight in antagonising the situation and it needs to be called out.

So there are social issues that need sorting out ?

That translates on here to directly supporting the rioters

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

So there are social issues that need sorting out ?

That translates on here to directly supporting the rioters

No it doesn't. Out of interest, how would you "sort them out"?

[gonzo]

24 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

There is no excuse for it and it sounds like you are trying to make some.  

Can you actually fucking read?

 

[gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No it doesn't. Out of interest, how would you "sort them out"?

Yes it does.

You and your little plonker mate have demonstrated just that.

 

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No it doesn't. Out of interest, how would you "sort them out"?

Gonzo said similar in more words that is just what you did.

I would actually do a lot of what the Govt is doing ideally quicker but understand the constraints. Most importantly get control of the narrative , everytime a few boats turn up it is all over social media. Where is the same when asylum application backlog drops  ? When returns increase ? NHS waiting lists at a 2 year low, reported but no headlines.

Farage has more followers on tik tok (according to him) that all the other MPs combined.

What would you do ? Either to tackle any issues or to stop anymore riots ? 

[Farrelli]

10 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Can you actually fucking read?

 

Your fkin brighter than that?

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Can you actually fucking read?

 

You started the patronising drivel

[Farrelli]

16 minutes ago, Ani said:

So there are social issues that need sorting out ?

That translates on here to directly supporting the rioters

No it doesn’t 

[Farrelli]

10 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Yes it does.

You and your little plonker mate have demonstrated just that.

 

Clearly rattled

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

Your fkin brighter than that?

You are not 👍😀

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

You are not 👍😀

Cheers 😊

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Yes it does.

You and your little plonker mate have demonstrated just that.

No it doesn't. I don't think you're "supporting the rioters". You're just appeasing them and trying to legitimise their behaviour because you also dislike foreigners. There's a difference.

[London Wanderer]

21 minutes ago, Ani said:

Without knowing the specific details in Ireland hard to say but the narrative is pretty clear there is a feeling that immigration is running out of control and people are coming to this country and playing the game which is costing £bns. Alongside this we are seeing a Labour Govt cutting Pensioners money and introducing a welfare bill that if implanted as badly as the winter fuel debacle will seem some people will real needs fucked over.

The immigrants are not evenly spread across the country so unless you live in an area where they are housed pretty impossible to understand the anger and frustration. But you try and do that as Gonzo suggests and it equates to condoning the behaviour ? Does it fuck. 
 

The mindless thuggery is inexcusable as it was after Southport but if you can point to any example in any sphere where focussing on symptoms rather than causes has solved anything you may have a valid point. The rhetoric of the extremists only works when it also taps into concerns of the wider population. Is there anyone in the country that things having a nearly 2 year backlog in processing claims for refugees is not an issue to address ? That the £bns being spent housing them is not an issue ? 
 

We either have a difficult conversation and drive actions to tackle the beast or we just hope it goes quietly to sleep. 

Some good points

 I didn’t say Gonzo was condoning it & even went back in to make that clear. Can see how it came across that way.

 This new world of misinformation is scary. Social media is clearly making things worse & I find it deeply concerning that elected MPs are posting locations of immigrants. Can’t be having a riot every time a foreigner commits a serious crime.  
 

Will step out the discussion now. As it’s all got a bit dramatic 😄

[gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No it doesn't. I don't think you're "supporting the rioters". You're just appeasing them and trying to legitimise their behaviour because you also dislike foreigners. There's a difference.

Where have I legitimised their behaviour?

Explaining the root cause of a situation isn't legitimising something.

 

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Ani said:

Gonzo said similar in more words that is just what you did.

I would actually do a lot of what the Govt is doing ideally quicker but understand the constraints. Most importantly get control of the narrative , everytime a few boats turn up it is all over social media. Where is the same when asylum application backlog drops  ? When returns increase ? NHS waiting lists at a 2 year low, reported but no headlines.

Farage has more followers on tik tok (according to him) that all the other MPs combined.

What would you do ? Either to tackle any issues or to stop anymore riots ? 

I would also do exactly what the Government is doing, and I would be patient because it's a massive issue that has building for years and will take time to resolve. What I wouldn't do is feel empathy for thicko rioters.

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Where have I legitimised their behaviour?

Explaining the root cause of a situation isn't legitimising something.

Sounds like "He's a decent bloke. I don't agree with what he did, but she must have wound him up."